Blundering_Novice
Rising Star
"The experiements are controversial because they have been able to be replicated in some cases, and not in others. It's called the Backster Effect. If true, then your plants suffer just as much as any animal when used for food."
Guess what is NOT controversial? The fact that animals and humans both have central nervous systems, and plants do NOT. Heres something else that is NOT controversial. No nerve cells = no pain. Its quite easily demonstrated. No controversy involved. Plants, nuts, fruits, vegetables do NOT contain nerve cells. So feel free to explain exactly (or even vaguely) a plant feels pain IN ANY WAY CLOSE to that of a fish or mammal. The Backster effect seems to work sometimes, and sometimes not? Well, when I slit the throat of a cow it **ALWAYS** cries and yelps. Every time.
"We evolved to eat meat, as it provides a higher dose of nutrients. If there wasn't the effort/reward mechanism for this type of consumption, it would not have become and evolutionary necessity for our species."
Oh really? We did? Why do you have to cook it (controlled burn...) first or risk getting sick? Unlike ANY OTHER carnivore on the planet. Lions don't use refrigerators, either. Furthermore, demonstrate this effort/reward mechanism. I can't wait to hear it. Many primates (incuding the strongest,) are vegetarian. A Gorilla doesn't need to eat a steak to beat either of us to a bloody pulp.
An 'evolutionary necessity'? Again, there are LITERALLY MILLIONS of human beings walking the earth RIGHT NOW who do not eat flesh. So much for your bit about 'evolutionary necessity.'
"Would it even be possible to feed the whole world on plants, if overnight we eliminated the consumption of animal flesh?"
Oh yes. And THEM SOME. The primary reason (but not only reason) that food resources are scare IS BECAUSE we feed what we grow to animals, then kill them and eat them.
"Yes, it does destory the host, and prevents reproduction. What happens to a corn stalk once all the ears have been picked? It dies. What happens to the bean stalk? It dies. Not only does it die, but you have prevented it from reproducing. It is in effect no different than the husbandry of animals."
No, picking the fruits/nuts doesn't kill a bean or corn stalk..... The weather does. Every year. Planting seeds is a lot easier than growing a cow. And if you are really worried about the plant not reproducing (despite that fact that they do when we plant the seeds on their behalf) you can leave a few beans/ears on it and rest your conscience. I really have to wonder how much thought you've put into your position.....
"Do you honestly believe that ANY life form, on the most intrinsic level imaginable, does not value its existence?"
I honestly don't see a shred of evidence that an orange, a pecan, or a kidney bean have ANY IOTA OF CONSCIOUNESS AT ALL. Zero. But, those are fruits. They fall off the plant host ANYWAY. That's their whole purpose. Don't try to draw parallels where none exist.
"I try to restrict it, to find alternative when I can. I have no guilt, just as you do not have any guilt for eating the lifeforce of plants, and in your own way betraying them."
If you really don't think that theres a difference between plants and animals, I have to wonder how you got out of elementary school. It is absurd. Why do you think that seeds have evolved to survive the intestinal tract? So when animals eat them and shit in the woods, more plants grow. This has been so for millions of years. Plants EXPECT other things to eat them. It is part of their reproductive cycle. How many mammals REQUIRE other mammals to eat them in order to propagate? None.
"The cow does convert cellulose into protiens, fats, etc. This is a more concentrated level of nutrients than you get from plant material. It eats something that we cannot, and converts it into something we can. What is the caloric value of a kilo of beef? How many kilos of lettuce would you need to eat in order to achieve the same amount of energy?"
5% fat meat is 621 calories per pound. Obviously the more fat, the more kilocalories.
Pound of Romaine lettuce = around 75.
But nobody is advocating eating lettuce all day, so lets take something more realistic. Like soybeans.
There are 1460 kcal in a pound of soy protein isolate. That's more than twice as much as your lb. of beef. And lets talk about what the SPI does NOT have. Saturated fat and cholesterol.
"I respect vegetarians immensely. I wish I could do it, I have tried, and it didn't work for me for the reasons I mentioned above."
Those being, in essence, you didn't feel like it. You just 'enjoy' meat. Your biology is no different than mine in any meaningful sense. You do not possess some "meatlusting" things in your brain that I do NOT have.
Again, feel free to indulge in whatever delusions and rationalizations you wish. Your mind is your own domain. But its clear to me that the spirits I sense and the spirits you sense are very different things.
Guess what is NOT controversial? The fact that animals and humans both have central nervous systems, and plants do NOT. Heres something else that is NOT controversial. No nerve cells = no pain. Its quite easily demonstrated. No controversy involved. Plants, nuts, fruits, vegetables do NOT contain nerve cells. So feel free to explain exactly (or even vaguely) a plant feels pain IN ANY WAY CLOSE to that of a fish or mammal. The Backster effect seems to work sometimes, and sometimes not? Well, when I slit the throat of a cow it **ALWAYS** cries and yelps. Every time.
"We evolved to eat meat, as it provides a higher dose of nutrients. If there wasn't the effort/reward mechanism for this type of consumption, it would not have become and evolutionary necessity for our species."
Oh really? We did? Why do you have to cook it (controlled burn...) first or risk getting sick? Unlike ANY OTHER carnivore on the planet. Lions don't use refrigerators, either. Furthermore, demonstrate this effort/reward mechanism. I can't wait to hear it. Many primates (incuding the strongest,) are vegetarian. A Gorilla doesn't need to eat a steak to beat either of us to a bloody pulp.
An 'evolutionary necessity'? Again, there are LITERALLY MILLIONS of human beings walking the earth RIGHT NOW who do not eat flesh. So much for your bit about 'evolutionary necessity.'
"Would it even be possible to feed the whole world on plants, if overnight we eliminated the consumption of animal flesh?"
Oh yes. And THEM SOME. The primary reason (but not only reason) that food resources are scare IS BECAUSE we feed what we grow to animals, then kill them and eat them.
"Yes, it does destory the host, and prevents reproduction. What happens to a corn stalk once all the ears have been picked? It dies. What happens to the bean stalk? It dies. Not only does it die, but you have prevented it from reproducing. It is in effect no different than the husbandry of animals."
No, picking the fruits/nuts doesn't kill a bean or corn stalk..... The weather does. Every year. Planting seeds is a lot easier than growing a cow. And if you are really worried about the plant not reproducing (despite that fact that they do when we plant the seeds on their behalf) you can leave a few beans/ears on it and rest your conscience. I really have to wonder how much thought you've put into your position.....
"Do you honestly believe that ANY life form, on the most intrinsic level imaginable, does not value its existence?"
I honestly don't see a shred of evidence that an orange, a pecan, or a kidney bean have ANY IOTA OF CONSCIOUNESS AT ALL. Zero. But, those are fruits. They fall off the plant host ANYWAY. That's their whole purpose. Don't try to draw parallels where none exist.
"I try to restrict it, to find alternative when I can. I have no guilt, just as you do not have any guilt for eating the lifeforce of plants, and in your own way betraying them."
If you really don't think that theres a difference between plants and animals, I have to wonder how you got out of elementary school. It is absurd. Why do you think that seeds have evolved to survive the intestinal tract? So when animals eat them and shit in the woods, more plants grow. This has been so for millions of years. Plants EXPECT other things to eat them. It is part of their reproductive cycle. How many mammals REQUIRE other mammals to eat them in order to propagate? None.
"The cow does convert cellulose into protiens, fats, etc. This is a more concentrated level of nutrients than you get from plant material. It eats something that we cannot, and converts it into something we can. What is the caloric value of a kilo of beef? How many kilos of lettuce would you need to eat in order to achieve the same amount of energy?"
5% fat meat is 621 calories per pound. Obviously the more fat, the more kilocalories.
Pound of Romaine lettuce = around 75.
But nobody is advocating eating lettuce all day, so lets take something more realistic. Like soybeans.
There are 1460 kcal in a pound of soy protein isolate. That's more than twice as much as your lb. of beef. And lets talk about what the SPI does NOT have. Saturated fat and cholesterol.
"I respect vegetarians immensely. I wish I could do it, I have tried, and it didn't work for me for the reasons I mentioned above."
Those being, in essence, you didn't feel like it. You just 'enjoy' meat. Your biology is no different than mine in any meaningful sense. You do not possess some "meatlusting" things in your brain that I do NOT have.
Again, feel free to indulge in whatever delusions and rationalizations you wish. Your mind is your own domain. But its clear to me that the spirits I sense and the spirits you sense are very different things.
