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syrian rue extraction attempt

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fatso

Rising Star
so i tried this tek: Harmine Crystals from Syrian Rue - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

anyway, one thing i did wrong because i somehow didnt catch the part where it says to use a tea strainer for the first 2 syrian rue boils. i read the tek b4 and remembered that he use a bandana but said a t-shirt would be fine. but that was for a strain at the end. i accidentally used a t-shirt for all of the strains.

i only realized this till after i had the water drying out of the "sparkling dirt" but since i already had done that much i decided to continue the tek and see what i get.

so i put the crystals in some 99 iso( i know the tek says ethyl but later in the thread it said iso would probably be ok) and strained onto a pyrex dish and evaporated it. wen i scraped it up(which was a lot harder than scarping up other iso extractions for some reason) it didnt even look like crystals. it looks like orange dust.:( anyone know why?

also, i was doing the last part of the tek at night and i noticed the harmala/salt solution glowed under a blacklight so i thought that was cool so i saved it in a jar in my fridge(after straining out the "sparkly dirt"). i have no idea why. i guess it just amused me.

so now its been sitting in the fridge for about 4 days and today i looked at it and noticed what seemed like a LOT of some weird crystaly stuff that looks like a thin sheet of ice like you get from putting a wet glass in the freezer. i was wondering, are these good for anything? anyone have any idea what it is?


thanks a lot! hope you can help.
 
hmmm, Ill ask acolon to add a warning before this tek.. Apparently dissolving harmalas in alcohol will change the harmalas into some other reddish product which is possibly innactive (if you do bio-assay it, tell us, because its still arguable whether it is active or not).

I dont understand what the problem is with filtering with a t-shirt.. You just need to have boiled 3x the seeds, but how you separate the liquid from the solids for each boil is irrelevant.

I also do not understand what you are talking about the fridge part and the unknown crystals, on which step are you?

The rue extraction I make is: 3x boil in vinegar solution, throw solids out, put liquids together and in the fridge for a day. Decant, keeping liquid throwing away decanted solids. Then saturate with salt, into the fridge again. Decant, throwing away liquid, keeping solids. Redissolve the solids (crude harmala hcl salts + maybe salt contamination) in fresh warm water, saturate with salt again, into the fridge again.. Repeat this maybe 3-5 times. Finally, redissolve crude salts in fresh warm water, add sodium carbonate till colour stops changing, plus a bit more, and then into the fridge again. Next day decant as much as possible, and the last part filter through a coffee filter, keeping what stays on top of filter which is your harmalas frebase.
 
maybe im over thinking things. i thought since boiling the seeds made some of that sparkly dirt if you strained it through a tea strainer the dirt would go straight thru. later on in the tek he uses the t-shirt or bandana to catch the dirt.

as for the second part you dont understand, look at step 5. im saying that after i did that and strained the sparkly dirt i saved the water that was supposed to go in the trash. i kept it because i was high and it looked really cool under a blacklight. lol, i know that probably made me sound retarded.

ill bioassay the orange crystals when i have some more fungi to test em with. otherwise idk what to expect from just maois and no psychedelic. itll be my first time with MAOIs. itll probably be a while though.

id like to try your tek with my other 50 grams of seeds. I think i understand it but just wanna make sure i do it right.
so i boil 3 times in just vinegar, no water?
when you say saturate with salt do you mean the same way as the other tek, dissolving it in boiling water?
then you say dissolve the solids in fresh warm water but how much?
repeat 3-5 times. you mean repeat the decanting, keeping solids, redissolving solids, salt saturating, then fridge?

sorry for so many questions. i just wanna make sure i understand what im doing before i start with my last seeds. and thankyou very much for your help so far. your tek is a lil bit harder and more time consuming but i think the end result may be better. i just am not sure how much i like the product of the other tek.
 
fatso said:
maybe im over thinking things. i thought since boiling the seeds made some of that sparkly dirt if you strained it through a tea strainer the dirt would go straight thru. later on in the tek he uses the t-shirt or bandana to catch the dirt.

as for the second part you dont understand, look at step 5. im saying that after i did that and strained the sparkly dirt i saved the water that was supposed to go in the trash. i kept it because i was high and it looked really cool under a blacklight. lol, i know that probably made me sound retarded.

ill bioassay the orange crystals when i have some more fungi to test em with. otherwise idk what to expect from just maois and no psychedelic. itll be my first time with MAOIs. itll probably be a while though.

id like to try your tek with my other 50 grams of seeds. I think i understand it but just wanna make sure i do it right.
so i boil 3 times in just vinegar, no water?
when you say saturate with salt do you mean the same way as the other tek, dissolving it in boiling water?
then you say dissolve the solids in fresh warm water but how much?
repeat 3-5 times. you mean repeat the decanting, keeping solids, redissolving solids, salt saturating, then fridge?

sorry for so many questions. i just wanna make sure i understand what im doing before i start with my last seeds. and thankyou very much for your help so far. your tek is a lil bit harder and more time consuming but i think the end result may be better. i just am not sure how much i like the product of the other tek.
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im sorry I dont know exactly what the 'sparkly dirt' is. In the first part after boiling, you want to throw away the solids, which will contain no more alkaloids as the alkaloids are dissolved in the water.. You only need to make a crude filtering because a thorough filtering would be nearly impossible, for some reason rue tends to block filters.. So your liquid will contain alkaloids plus some finer dirt/impurities.. Thats why I mention that then one should stick it in the fridge overnight, as a lot of this finer dirt/impurities will go to the bottom, and you decant, keeping the liquid and throwing away the decanted dirt. Then proceed to salt saturation and so on

I dont think you are wrong to have kept the liquid that glows, in fact, you did very right in keeping it.. This tek is quite weird! I dont know who wrote it but it definitely should not be just adding salt water to the harmala solution, it should be adding straight the salt to the solution, and adding loads of salt! So if you followed that tek, what happened is that probably there was not enough salt, which means a lot of the alkaloids are still in the liquid and didnt precipitate, and thats why its glowing in blacklight (because harmala solution glows in blacklight!) So add a lot more salt to the solution and some more harmalas should precipitate and it should stop glowing in blacklight.

Next time, just add 30g salt per 100ml rue solution (seems like a lot of salt, and it is, but its no problem, even if theres tons of salt that doesnt dissolve and mixes with the harmala hcl that precipitates, it will anyways be eliminated in the later step), and then continue as I described.

as I said, I definitely dont mean doing like the tek, I mean adding straight the salt to the rue solution (while its boiling or warm, doesnt matter much).

Boil 3x with vinegar solution, so yes it has water and vinegar.. Also doesnt matter how much vinegar, just add some, like a quarter vinegar and 3/4 water, or whatever.. Even just a few drops would probably be enough, and a lot would be no problem, what matters is that the water is acidic.

When I say repeat 3-5 times, I mean, after you will have added salt to the rue solution and left in the fridge.. Then you will throw away the liquids and the solids that precipitated and are on the bottom, you redissolve them in warm water (doesnt matter how much, but just for the sake of it, lets say, same amount of water as the amount of liquid that there was that you threw away just before). So this means this fresh water will now have your dissolved harmalas plus maybe a bit of salt... and what you will repeat is exactly this step, of saturating with salt again and putting in the fridge again, and again next day throwing away liquid and keeping the solids, adding more fresh water etc... So in the end after a couple of runs, finally you will have again added fresh water to your harmala solids, and then instead of adding salt to precipitate, you will add sodium carbonate, which will precipitate your harmalas as freebase.


Search around the harmalas section in the forum for mine and phlux threads and posts, as we posted pictures and detailed writtings of this process

good luck
 
alright im gonna do some searching for yours and phlu's posts. im gonna try and do it tomorow.

i poured out the syrian rue water out of the jar and all the yellow(with a hint of brown) crystals stayed on the side of the jar. i dried the jar out and i think that they are actually harmala crystals. i also kept the syrian rue water and put it back in the fridge to see if itll happen again. what should i do with these? im thinking about trying to dissolve em in fresh water and doing the sodium carbonate step.
 
dont just put the water back in the fridge, add more salt and then to the fridge.

as for the rue, you could even keep them as is, or repeat salt step for further purification, or sodium carbonate.. If you think of storing them for long, maybe keeping as HCl would be a more stable form (though im not 100% sure) than freebase.. If you think of smoking it, having as freebase is the way.. If you want to ingest them reasonably soon, it can be kept both as HCl (but it could have some salt mixed in), or as a freebase (and then better redissolve it in a glass of orange juice or lemon tea or something in the moment you want to injest)
 
ya i was planning on smoking it. i took the crystals and added water and a bit of vinegar and they dissolved and then i added salt. one thing i noticed tho is the salt doesnt seem to dissolve very well. any tips o getting it to dissolve faster/better? i think im gonna try my second attempt today! ill report back.
 
heating up the whole thing helps dissolving salt.. but if with a little time, stirring and heat the salt wont dissolve anymore, then it probably is because its already fully saturated with salt so you can already put in the fridge
 
If you get things nice and salty enough, then you should be able to put it in the freezer without the whole thing turning to ice and the crystals will precip much faster this way.
 
thanks for the tips. i sort of figured it was fully saturated or something.

endlessness, yesterday i did the first part of your tek. now the jar of unsalted water is sitting in the fridge. gonna continue the extraction today. gotta go to get some sodium carbonate. all i have is bicarbonate
 
fatso

If you're stuck then I heard that baking soda (sodium bi-carbonate) can be converted to to sodium carbonate by heating on a glass dish in an oven @ 500 deg F for 1 hour.

Edit: endlessness provides a link below - thank you :d
 
great thanks. im making the sodium carbonate now. gonna clean up my crystals from the previos extraction.

on my second extraction with endlessness's tek its salted and sitting in the fridge.
 
ok i finished making the sodium carbonate. i dissolved the crude harmala extract from the first extract in a vinegar solution. then i strained it. this took about 15 minutes. then i strained again. took maybe 30 seconds. then i slowly added the sodium carbonate and but it didnt seem to change the color. it just fizzed and settled at the bottom. then i shook the jar and it turned yellow like the pictures in phlux's thread about this. then the sodium carbonate settled at the bottom again. is it supposed to dissolve? am i doing something wrong?
 
i strained the sodium carbonate/hamala solution and am drying it out now. i think there is definetly less baking soda than last night but it still seems like more than the amount of crystals i put in in the first place. im a little hesitant to smoke this.
 
i salted the harmala solution for the 3rd time and it seems like theres a lot of salt settled at the bottom. is this normal? should i get it out somehow?
 
ok on the first extract attempt i still have the harmala freebase solution in a jar. im gonna decant and strain it and redissolve it in vinegar solution and decant, throwing away the solids and resalting the liquid. is this corrct? i would really appreciate some help.

on the second extract attempt i have the harmala solution sitting in the freezer salted. (this jar hasnt had sodium carbonate added to it yet) im gonna strain and keep the solids, throwing away the liquid? this is what confuses me because in this thread Swims Peganum Harmala Extraction - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus it says redissolve freebase in vinegar solution an THROW AWAY PRECIPITATES, KEEPING THE LIQUID. that is the complete opposite of what it said to do in this thread. do i only do this if its already in freebase? can someone help clarify what im supposed to do? i really dont wanna mess this up.

and if i reasalt freebase harmala is it still freebase or back to HCL?
 
After salting the rue/vinegar solution and the precipitates have fallen out you KEEP the precipitates and that's your harmalas. You then can redesolve in weak vinegar solution and leave in the fridge unsalted for a couple of days, whatever comes out then is not harmalas and can be discarded.
 
fatso said:
on the second extract attempt i have the harmala solution sitting in the freezer salted. (this jar hasnt had sodium carbonate added to it yet) im gonna strain and keep the solids, throwing away the liquid? this is what confuses me because in this thread Swims Peganum Harmala Extraction - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus it says redissolve freebase in vinegar solution an THROW AWAY PRECIPITATES, KEEPING THE LIQUID. that is the complete opposite of what it said to do in this thread. do i only do this if its already in freebase? can someone help clarify what im supposed to do? i really dont wanna mess this up.
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The part in capitals is correct. Basically what Phlux did on the link you gave was this:

1. he did the Manske precipitation (added loads of salt to precipitate the chloride salts of the harmalas. Note that in this step not only the harmalas precipitate, but various microparticles from the seed material that have escaped filtration. . This is the crude extraction.

2. He then dissolved the precipitated harmalas in acidic water and freebased it. The freebased harmalas precipitated, along with any plant material that was carried over.

3. --your question-- The freebases were dissolved in vinegar (thus converting them to the reasonably soluble harmala acetates. The solution was left to settle, the (clean) harmala acetates in solution, and the useless seed microparticles precipitated. These precipitates were thrown away.

Hope that helps!
 
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