TBM / Bridgesii Monstrose Type B - Some fun with numbers

[Grey Fox]

Yes, picture please. I can't get enough photos of naked bridgesii .

Yeah, I mean, a well-established tricho will grow a foot per year or even more. But in terms of goodies, a foot of standard bridge can be a rather moderate dose. According to Caz (the guy from reddit whom I quoted earlier) and , three segments of the monster can give a serious effect. That's much less mass than a foot of standard bridge, but seems to be comparable in power. In that regard, a short form (clone B) might be as productive as a standard bridgesii.

Or did I miss something?

If its that strong then it would be worth growing for consumption. Let us know what it does for you.

Standard bridgesii is pretty strong though. The problem with dosage comparison is that sometimes people are taking 12 inches from a skinny young plant and sometimes people are taking 12 inches from a fat old plant. There's a big difference between those two cuttings. Good, mature bridgesii can be VERY strong at 12 inches. I've tripped hard from less.

Bridgesii can get to a good sized plant in a few years under the right conditions. Here's the plant I referred to in the last post.

 

[brewster]

Thanks for the hint. I read the whole thread - lots of good info there, especially about all the things we don't know yet :roll: . Certainly, lots of food for thought.

Anecdotal accounts suggest that drinking fruit juices with high levels of glutamic acid at the time of administration of a psychedelic causes a potentiation effect.

Soy protein isolate has tons of glutamic acid - that should allow for testing the interaction rather quickly, right?

The flavonoid thing is one that could use more attention and testing.
It needs evidence.

Yes, totally. I recently tried to read up on the benefits of flavonoids in green tea. And while there is tons of studies indicating things, the effects are not understood well. All without combining it with other substances.. and the brain. So this will take quite a while, as it seems.

The problem with dosage comparison is that sometimes people are taking 12 inches from a skinny young plant and sometimes people are taking 12 inches from a fat old plant.

Yes, definitely. So weight is one step ahead, but then there's all the factors contributing to individual variation, of course. I read reports from people tripping super hard from, like 400g of fresh Bridge, others recommend at least 600g for a medium experience.

But to get an estimate: the segments of the plant I got are somewhat larger than a golf ball. Rather, a kiwi. The kiwis I have here weight around 80g / piece. So, three segments (well hydrated! In winter, TBM short can shrivel up like crazy) will be roughly 240 grams. Probably not much more than 100g dehydrated, and 20g dried.

A standard bridge cutting?
- 30cm / 2,5cm: 500g
- 30cm / 5cm : 2000g

But, then, we don't even know the mesc content for sure, and even less the possible potentiation effects by other alkaloids and / or flavonoids.

The plant looks great! If you can plant it outside in the ground, you might as well have a tap where you can draw cactus juice The poor guys in cold climates have less fun in that regard.

Well - I'll be careful then and try only 2-3 of the spiky kiwis some time soon. I'll report back on that.

If anyone else has experience with TBM short form, please advise on how much of it you perceive as potent. Thanks

 

[brewster]

OK, one last thing. Brett does indeed state how MAOIs are supposed to boos a trip. It's in the same article as cited above.

MAO-B inhibition reduces the breakdown mainly of dopamine and phenethylamine

I assume that there's no evidence for this? Because, if there were, I would assume using selective MAOIs with mescaline would be pretty popular...

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Mescaline also gets broken down in the body by other metabolic routes. Flavonoids are well-known for their interactions with metabolic enzyme systems. It's not all about the MAO, you know. Plenty more to learn and discover here!

 

[misohim]

hmm.. ive felt well above threshold affects from one segment of tbm shot form.. maybe thumb length.. also have tried a cwe on a couple segments at once.. ended up with a bunch of black tar after evaporating the water.. super super bitter taste to it.

have also felt strong effects from bridgesii from as low as 7g dried outer green skin.. (peel off the wax layer and cut the white flesh away and then dry the remainder)..

i've tried pure mescaline hcl before and both of these felt equal to or stronger than 300mg..

will post pictures of mentioned plants tomorrow..

psychedelics are very variable though.. would take this with a grain of salt..

 

[0_o]

In post 7 I uploaded a photo of clone B from 3/7/2019
This is that same clone today on 6/21/2019 after less than 4 months.
I feed and water regularly.
These plants grow quite fast.

 

[brewster]

Wow, that's pretty nice!
I got myself some, they haven't been growing that fast. But they were in very bad shape when I got them, maybe they took some time to get going. It's a nice idea, I'll post some comparisons soon

 

[Grey Fox]

Here's a photo of my TBM. It grew that top segment this growing season. They are interesting looking plants. But they will never add mass the way that a standard form Bridgesii can. Its hard to when the growth tip terminates after a few inches and the segments are so narrow. By volume their growth production will always lag far behind the standard form.

 

[0_o]

No.
It grows just as fast if not faster than standard bridgesii.
This has been repeatedly observed.

Any plants not growing normally are not being fed properly.

The plant I show tripled in size in under six months from a cutting.
One of the reasons this clone has been popular is that it grows so fast.

The idea that this clone grows slowly isn't accurate. It only grows slowly when starved of foot or light or both.

 

[brewster]

How much fertilizer do you give it ?

 

[0_o]

I feed it like any other plant.
The blue balls are a time release fert.

I once thought this form grew slowly but my own experience and that of several others proved that I was mistaken.

Edited to add:
The fertilizer is a time release 19:6:12 just regular plant food. I gave it the same amount any plant would get.


Agricultural studies have shown that cacti like this have nearly identical nutrional requirements to leafy plants. It's a common misconception that cacti need to be starved.

 

[Grey Fox]

No.
It grows just as fast if not faster than standard bridgesii.
This has been repeatedly observed.

Any plants not growing normally are not being fed properly.

The plant I show tripled in size in under six months from a cutting.
One of the reasons this clone has been popular is that it grows so fast.

The idea that this clone grows slowly isn't accurate. It only grows slowly when starved of foot or light or both.

Sorry brother. You can keep saying it, but it doesnt make it true. These plants take longer to get to a large size than a standard bridgesii. They gain mass a lot slower. Your 5 inch tall specimen doesnt prove much.

The biggest one I've ever seen in person was about 18 inches tall by 2 feet wide and the seller wanted $300 for it. You can buy rooted 12 to 18 inch tall standard bridgesii around here for $30. But I'm sure that you're familiar with those prices since you have 20 years of experience and all.

Later today I'll take a photo of a standard bridgesii I have that has several pups on it that have been growing for the same amount of time as my monstrose pup. The difference in mass and potential will be obvious, especially since monstrose bridgesii pups terminate after a few inches of growth and have to re-pup again to produce additional growth.

This is what I dont get, you keep claiming to have 20 years of experience. And yet you also keep advocating for positions that fly in the face of what a lot of people who have been growing and using these cacti for years know to be true. Like your argument that the different species of tricho cactus all have the same full spectrum effect. Or that you get a large plant faster by growing from seed as opposed to cuttings. Or that cactus is never salty. Or that the short form monstrose bridgesii gets bigger faster than standard bridgesii. It just doesnt make any sense to me. Do you have any 20 year old mother plants to show or just seedlings from the last year or two? It doesnt add up to me.

 

[0_o]

If you don't believe the photos I am not worried about it.
They are proof however.

Feeding your plants and learning a little about plant nutritional requirements goes a long way.
If you want to start a thread to discuss those things you say I claim I will discuss them with you there.

 

[Grey Fox]

Who doesnt feed their plants?

Your photos aren't proof of anything besides the possession of some baby plants.

 

[brewster]

If I'm getting this correctly, all Bridgesii Monstrose Short Type specimen have the same DNA, since they originate from the same plant, is that right? In that case, that should give a huge amount of comparatility, unlike seed-grown plants, where you never know which genes you get.

I don't have the experience with these yet, but based on my experience with Cuzcos, I assume the following:
Small monsters can grow relatively fast, equally fast as SMALL columnar bridgesii. But, once the regular columns reach a certain size, they really take off, get a lot of arms and each can grow more than 10 inches a year. So, this is when they will far outrun the monsters.

Still - if the monsters are as potent as is claimed, then this might not make a big difference in terms of substance production.

So - for people like me who have to grow in pots which they have to bring inside to overwinter, the short type monsters might be a great alternative. But, if you have plenty of space, especially if you can plant them outside, you'll get majestic regular type brigdesii. Man, I wish I could plant cacti outside. That's a luxury that can't be overstated.

Anyways, that's my theory, but we'll see in a few years.

One more thought - has anyone ever tried grafting a monster? That should be interesting!

Now, let's see some pictures of what has been going on here.

 

[brewster]

So, here are the three cacti I have. The older pics are from early spring, March I think, when I got them. The newer pics with the plants outside are from now. This means about 2 months of growth, because before that, they were dormant.

As you can see, this one hasn't grown thaaaat much, only one segmet. The rest is just it "filling" up, in absorbing water, but the segments are done growing, methinks.

 

[brewster]

Speciment 2 has grown some more - not much gain in mass yet, but the three new segments should be fairly large by the end of the year.

 

[brewster]

The third one though! This one really seems unstoppable. The difference is, this one had the pups on the bottom already. They were something like small walnuts, now they're 3-4x as large. And it has produced one new pup on the bottom and one on the top.

 

[brewster]

Here's a regular bridge, by the way. It has grown some more in the same time, even though it's only 3. But it's difficult to compare because all these cacti had been neglected and their root systems were underdeveloped. And they were from different sources, the columnar bridge was kept inside.
Now they're all well-fed and outside in the full sun.

 

[0_o]

Terra cotta dries out too quickly for me.
Roots only take up nutrients when the medium is moist.

Water is a major limiting factor, as is N and light. This is covered by the work done on production of cacti for food for animals and people. P.S.Nobel has published good stuff on this.

Growth is directly proportional to feeding in these cacti.