TBM / Bridgesii Monstrose Type B - Some fun with numbers

[brewster]

Interesting. Since I'm new with Bridges and since I heard that they're more prone to rotting, I thought to rather err on the side of caution. There can be rainy periods with only 10ish degrees celsius here. The Cuzcos never had rot though. But it would be interesting to put one of them in a plastic pot and see how they fare.

Do you know if all Bridgesii Monstrose Type B are genetically identical?

 

[Grey Fox]

According to the Sacred Succulents website the short form TBM was "Likely introduced to cultivation by Ed and Betty Gay in the 60s." So yes it probably is a single clone.

Bridgesiis are more prone to rot than other Trichos but they certainly can be grown in plastic pots if you are mindful not to over water. I notice that your TBMs have roots growing above the soil line. That and the wrinkled, shrunken look tells you that they want more water. From the newer photos and the look of the new growth it appears that they are much happier with the water they are getting now. With bridgesii if you are overwatering you will usually start to see small black spots appearing on the cactus. It is a matter of experimenting with watering and finding that happy balance.

 

[brewster]

Thanks for the great input, Grey Fox. The thing is, if it is a coldish-humid phase in summer, I can't do much when I keep them outside, so they sometimes will be wet for weeks.
Most of their aereal roots were there already when I got them - they looked so extreme that I thought they were dead! Probably didn't get water for months, but now, most of them are well-filled. I don't think they still are very shrunken - they have expanded a lot.

One more question: how are your experiences as far as sunlight is concerned? I read that they shouldn't have full sun. I have them in the sunniest place I have, with a bright wall that even reflects light. Only one of them was slightly yellow, the others seem very happy.

 

[Grey Fox]

The amount of sunlight that they can handle is dependent upon the temperature. In their native range in the Andes it is high elevation and that moderates the high temps. For example in Cusco, Peru the average summertime daily highs are only in the upper 60's F.

What I observe with mine is that once the temps get into the 90's and above then they really benefit from afternoon shade. If you live in a very mild climate with summertime temps that do not get very warm then they can probably take sun all day. But if you get hot weather in the summer then give them shade in the afternoon. Too much sun during hot weather will cause them to turn yellow and it will stunt their growth.

 

[brewster]

Good to know, thanks! Yellowing has indeed occurred. 90s aren't uncommon here, so, things will get a bit more shady around here

 

[0_o]

There are claims that there are multiple forms of the clumping monstrose bridgesii.
It's very difficult to over water bridgesii but it has been reported in places with several meters of annual rainfall. You can water them daily during the growth season without problems as long as the roots can breathe.

Some people have even reported bridgesii to be amongst the most hardy of the San Pedro allies.
A lot of misconceptions about them persist.

 

[0_o]

The black spots are a bacterial infection associated with calcium deficiency. The species is usually erwinia.
It is usually unrelated to watering.

 

[Grey Fox]

The black spots are a bacterial infection associated with calcium deficiency. The species is usually erwinia.
It is usually unrelated to watering.

Again you are wrong. Black spots appearing on Bridgesii is one of the warning signs of overwatering. Bridgesii is more prone to developing them than Pachanoi or Peruvianus. It is more susceptible to developing rot from overwatering. In my climate I usually only notice the spots during late summer when our humidity increases and the soil dries out more slowly and the bridgesii want to be watered less. I had a conversation with the owner of a large cactus nursery once, this is a man with decades of real experience growing trichocereus, not just made up experience on the internet. He talked about getting black spots of weeping rot appearing on bridgesii during times of higher humidity and how important it is to cut back on watering them during that time. He stated that he had lost some large bridgesii over the years to rot and that it is very easy to overwater them.

I don't understand your insistence on spreading false information in order to prop yourself up on this forum. It is getting quite old.

 

[0_o]

Quite literally weeping black rot is caused nearly always by Erwinia and is a symptom of Ca deficiency.

Rotting Cactus Plants: Learn About Erwinia Soft Rot In Cactus

Cacti are susceptible to a number of rot diseases, just like any other plant. While oftentimes cactus rot diseases are caused by too much water and humidity, this article will specifically discuss Erw

www.gardeningknowhow.com

It does occur in plants with Ca deficiency when humidity is high and temps are warm however the humidity is not the cause. It is easy to treat by feeding Ca.

Plants should not get weeping black spots from being watered.
It's a sign something's wrong.

Plants that aren't fed well are at risk for all sorts of diseases.
Just like people are.

 

[0_o]

The black spots are a bacterial infection associated with calcium deficiency. The species is usually erwinia.
It is usually unrelated to watering.

Again you are wrong. Black spots appearing on Bridgesii is one of the warning signs of overwatering. Bridgesii is more prone to developing them than Pachanoi or Peruvianus. It is more susceptible to developing rot from overwatering. In my climate I usually only notice the spots during late summer when our humidity increases and the soil dries out more slowly and the bridgesii want to be watered less. I had a conversation with the owner of a large cactus nursery once, this is a man with decades of real experience growing trichocereus, not just made up experience on the internet. He talked about getting black spots of weeping rot appearing on bridgesii during times of higher humidity and how important it is to cut back on watering them during that time. He stated that he had lost some large bridgesii over the years to rot and that it is very easy to overwater them.

I don't understand your insistence on spreading false information in order to prop yourself up on this forum. It is getting quite old.

I would like to remind you of these rules :

Attitude Page - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

You have been repeatedly rude, confrontational and displayed a lack of manners in general. If you have concerns there are polite constructive ways to address them. It would be nice if you would consider raising the bar of your candor.

 

[0_o]

Erwinia are abundant and thrive in warmth and humidity where they can get established in susceptible plants, typically those that have a Ca deficiency.

Several studies have documented the preventative role Ca can play with regards to Erwinia. In plants that are vulnerable the organism can establish and devour the plant. However although watering increase humidity it is not actually responsible for the blemishes that appear in the heat and humidity. In areas like the San Francisco bay and Sacramento valley bridgesii plants planted outside get quite a bit of water in winter without the appearance of Erwinia blemishes and rots. If watering resulting in blemishes then such plants would have many and yet they typically do not. The temperatures involved are below those that bacterial plant pests thrive at.



If someone has entire plants become infected rapidly that is a sign that the plant is not healthy. One of the reasons fertilizers rich in Ca N and Mg are used in commerical production of plants from seed is the reduced vulnerability to Erwinia spp which can infect a wide range of plant species.

 

[Grey Fox]

It's very difficult to over water bridgesii...

It is usually unrelated to watering...

Plants should not get weeping black spots from being watered...

You are just flat out wrong about this. Bridgesii are susceptible to rot from overwatering. It is a widely recognized characteristic of the species. People growing them in different climates have reported it. Plants that were otherwise healthy and thriving have been badly damaged and even killed because too much water was applied. Bridgesii have lower water requirements than pachanoi and peruvianus. They can survive on less water and they show negative effects from overwatering more quickly. This is widely known. I have seen it with my own eyes. I have spoken to multiple people who have seen it with their own eyes.

You attribute all of this to everyone having nutrient deficient plants? Even professionals who make a living growing these plants for decades? That is preposterous.

Personally I have had very little problems with rot in my trichocereus. But that is a testament to the dry desert climate that I live in more than to anything else. Others who live in more humid climates have not been as fortunate. But even here care must be taken. Too much water will cause rot to set in. First it appears as small black spots. If changes are not made to the watering then the spots will grow larger and some will rupture and weep. If watering is not curtailed at that point then the entire plant can be lost. THIS IS FACT.


Obviously you and I see differently on things. Appeal to the rules... Get me banned... It doesn't really matter. I have PC's that I've been growing ornamentally for 7 or 8 years now. I have a nice collection of various other Trichocereus cacti that I have been growing for 5 years. I know what I'm talking about when I give someone advice on these cacti because I've seen it with my own eyes. Everything I've said on this website has been from what I've seen and experienced in real life.

But I get a very different feeling about. You keep appealing to 20 years of experience as the basis to overturn widely known facts about these cacti. That bothers me. Because you have no proof of anything other than small plants that have been grown for about a year's worth of time. That and internet articles that you reference. You strike me as someone who does not have that much real life experience with these plants, but you keep presenting yourself as otherwise. And really it wouldn't matter too much except for the fact that almost everytime I have something to say about these cacti you have to chime in with a rebuttal.

So keep posting your photos of seedlings. And keep quoting online articles. And keep appealing to your 20 years and your secret knowledge and all that. It doesn't even matter.


brewster I apologize that the conversation here has degenrated to this point. The new growth on your TBM's looks good. You're clearly doing a good job with them. Be careful not to overwater. You know what to look for.

 

[brewster]

Thanks, both of you, for your efforts in this thread and for the great input. I actually don't see that many contradictions here - there can be more than one type of / reason for black spots, and what lots of watering means, is also up for debate. So, nevermind, it's totally OK for me to have different input on this. You know how it is - ask 3 doctors, get three opinions. That doesn't mean two of them are incompetent, just that living beings' issues are complex and can unfold in many ways. So, no harm done, ok?

I'm grateful for all the superb information and great exchange here. So far, I haven't had any rot, except with small seedlings, lost a few of those. I hope that I can get over it and try the bridges at some point lol - after feeding and nurturing them for months and years, I find it almost impossible to cut away from them . Same story every time lol. In any case, I'll keep you updated. Cheers!

 

[0_o]

Everything I have shared is accurate.
Including photographic proof that clone B grows fast.


I'd merely like you to learn how to be polite.

The truth is that pachanoi, bridgesii, peruvianus, scopulicolus, cuzcoensis, etc can all be watered the same. They thrive in wet areas like the San Francisco bay and bridgesii is no exception. They are all ridiculously easy to grow.

They aren't at risk for over watering except in a few areas on the globe and they all are at equal risk there.

It's true I've been growing them for more than 20 years.
I've been working with plants for over 25.
Among some here that is not a secret. A number of people who are members here have received plants from me over the years.

 

[0_o]

Pachanoi is known from the area Lima Peru where the annual precipitation is near zero. Lima is also near sea level.

Pachanoi and peruvianoids grow near Matucana Peru. This area has virtually zero annual precipitation as well.

La Paz Bolivia is home to some bridgesii. La Paz gets 500mm or so of rain a year.
It's a fact that bridgesii come from an area with more rain than areas where pachanoi and peruvianus hail from.


The biggest sign of overwatering of these plants is splitting, large visible vertical tears on the stem can occur. They are unsightly but rarely fatal.


Note that several bridgesii forms did very well in the Gay collection.
That collection was in the Bay area! SF gets about 2 feet of rain a year, just about the same as La Paz Bolivia!

 

[0_o]

Not my photo.
I've seen a few plants this size or bigger.
Sacred Succulents had a nice large one when I visited there about a decade ago.

I've only seen them get to a bit over a meter tall.
However they grow very dense. I'll continue to update on the growth of my clone B. I just transplanted it.

I have had other monstrose bridgesii in the past and they were slower than the standard form but not by a lot.

 

[0_o]

Thanks, both of you, for your efforts in this thread and for the great input. I actually don't see that many contradictions here - there can be more than one type of / reason for black spots, and what lots of watering means, is also up for debate. So, nevermind, it's totally OK for me to have different input on this. You know how it is - ask 3 doctors, get three opinions. That doesn't mean two of them are incompetent, just that living beings' issues are complex and can unfold in many ways. So, no harm done, ok?

I'm grateful for all the superb information and great exchange here. So far, I haven't had any rot, except with small seedlings, lost a few of those. I hope that I can get over it and try the bridges at some point lol - after feeding and nurturing them for months and years, I find it almost impossible to cut away from them . Same story every time lol. In any case, I'll keep you updated. Cheers!

A little rot is to be expected.
If you grow a few hundred seedlings it isn't uncommon for a couple to rot away even while those around them thrive. This can happen at almost any time but plants kept dry in winter dormancy seem to be more at risk, though out of thousands of seedlings only a few tend to die. Often it appears they melt away.


Another rot is common in peat based media in plants that have been in their containers for a couple of years. I used to see it a lot in plants shipped into a garden center I worked in. In that case it was mostly Gymnocalycium species however inspections demonstrated that the rot was starting in the roots and spreading through the plants core from the base up
Similar rots have been seen with Trichocereus on occasion.

This is one of the reasons that mineral based media is preferred by most experienced growers.

 

[brewster]

Wow, that large one is incredible! Must be some decades old.
Yeah, most of the seedlings are doing well, I'm happy with that, especially since it's my first attempt. I was less lucky with Peyothe though.

Interesthing that the cacti are able to adapt to such diverse environments. So it's not only the cuzcos which are so resiliant. Good to know that some of the more potent species are, too

Indeed, even I stopped using pre-made cactus soil quite a while ago. I just get natural sand, and add like 50% compost to it - that has worked well for me, and I even could use regional resources for it.

 

[0_o]

That sounds great.
I'm using a coir rich medium and I wouldn't recommend it for the long term.
I've had awesome success with mixtures like the one you report using.
Instead of sand I've used expanded shale, pea gravel, scoria and perlite too.
As long as the soil drains well and holds air the plants will typically do well.

I've seen PC withstand being in standing water for 2 months but that is abnormal.

 

[TexasTrichocereus]

No one has all the answers. But everyone is entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is.
What I want to do is spread the bits and pieces that I’ve found to work or find to be true. I once was reluctant to give away ‘gardening techniques’’, things I’ve found beneficial, or even things I’ve discovered to be ‘true’(I use this term loosely, after all I’m not a scientist, just a dude with some plants and a dream). Then I realized that is terribly selfish or even morally wrong. I say morally wrong because my belief is the more healthy cacti/plants in this ever so rapidly changing world the better. So one of the contributions I made to Mother Nature is spread what I believe to be beneficial and helpful information and observations.

I grow outdoors all year and have been for the last decade. The collection has grown from a few PC’s to over 200 different named clones(or sets of genetics because most have broken arms and I plant the broken one to have multiple), at least 400 different groups of seedling/crosses/hybrids, and hundreds of other species. For a total of 5000 or so plants if I had to guess probably more. I don’t know, I might count them someday but I doubt it. I’ll just keep growing and amassing the cacti genetic garden. Most of my time is spent tending these wonderful plants. There’s always something that needs planting or maintenance. Various creatures and weather always find a plant to pick on.

I literally started reading everything I could on the internet and buying books. I realized some of what I read and tried did not work for my precious cacti. So back to soil mixing tote and compost tea bucket. I killed a lot of cacti starting out, occasionally still do. It happens.

I went through and read every post in this thread. Interesting topics, thoughts, opinion. Some new to me, others I’ve seen regurgitated a few times.

There’s more than one way to grow cacti. Species and environment are what I think of 1st when I’m adding a new species to the obsession. I’d never plant a strombo into my dragon fruit soil or vise versa. Both cacti but wildly different.

In my experience none of the TBM’s in my garden put on mass like my other trichs. I’ve had several trichs put on 8’-10’ of growth in 1 year. Multiple arms well over 1ft. Those psycho x N1 seedgrown were the exception. I commonly see multiple feet of growth for pachanoi, bridgesii, macros though. Some clones/species grow much slower. However once acquainted with the clone/species during peak growth I’ll think to myself and say wow that one is growing fast. Despite its slow compared to others.

If anyone as read my rambling this long let me leave you with a few things that I always do.
Charcoal in your potting mix or amend the ground you plant in with some. Hardwood charcoal. If you do not have a place to make charcoal, grocery stores sell ‘lump hardwood charcoal. Break the pieces into smaller pieces. I’ve never used the preformed briquettes. When I collect charcoal from my burn pile I rinse it off well as to not get to much potash.

Humic acid and fulvic acid. Chelators. Wonderful stuff. I water soil with it and spray foliage.

So I guess this should be my official welcome post. Please disregard any grammar errors! Lol

When time allows I’ll try to drop in more and hang out.