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The fear of psychedelics

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Th Entity

Th Entity

I can't think of anything important or deep to add
Hey Nexians i was listening to music and i had a thought!

A lot of people who never took any psychedelics have the fear of going bonkers forever (fear of the psychs bringing out underlaying mental illness) This is rational fear if one is predisposed to mental illness, if mental illness runs in family one would be better without the psychs. The psychedelic experts claim that the psychs can bring out mental illness sooner if one is predisposed but he would probabbly get it anyway throught his/her life unlocked by some very traumatic event.

NOTE: Psychdelics cant make sane person (without history of mental illnes in his/her family) insane.

Does this apply to cannabis? If one smoked cannabis for years without any problems would there be any need for rational fear of taking psychedelics?
 
Th Entity said:
Hey Nexians i was listening to music and i had a thought!

A lot of people who never took any psychedelics have the fear of going bonkers forever (fear of the psychs bringing out underlaying mental illness) This is rational fear if one is predisposed to mental illness, if mental illness runs in family one would be better without the psychs. The psychedelic experts claim that the psychs can bring out mental illness sooner if one is predisposed but he would probabbly get it anyway throught his/her life unlocked by some very traumatic event.

NOTE: Psychdelics cant make sane person (without history of mental illnes in his/her family) insane.
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Are your assumptions that psychs can't make sane person insane backed by some scientific research?
I am pretty sure that's exactly what psychedelics do: make you insane for some short time and maybe a little bit crazy for a long period.
Conventional definiton of sanity might not fully apply to the world of pure mental existence imo.

Does this apply to cannabis? If one smoked cannabis for years without any problems would there be any need for rational fear of taking psychedelics?
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I have a friend who smokes cannabis and likes alcohol, but will not eat mushrooms or lsd or mdma. Some people just don't want or need more drugs.
 
I am bi polar and have taken many psychedelics and have smoke a lot of weed in my life. Never had any adverse affects, in fact I feel that psychedelics have helped me quite a bit, they pulled me out of deep depression, which I had to deal with for many years.

So all in all, psychedelics showed me sanity when I was insane. Placed things into a better perspective for me. Nothing is written in stone I would say. It's highly subjective I would say. What works for one may not work for another.
 
DmnStr8 wise words!
I personally think noone is sane because we are all product of insane society with insane rules and distorted ideals.

Thank you for both replys!
 
Th Entity said:
DmnStr8 wise words!
I personally think noone is sane because we are all product of insane society with insane rules and distorted ideals.

Thank you for both replys!
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I personnaly prefer thinking we're a product of a wonderfull universe that let us to exprience everything (creation) we want, from the lightest to the darkest.
It's all for us to build our world from collective consciousness, thinking everyday to a bad society may create a bad society, thinking to change society, may lead to change society.
Things are not bad or good, things are. Free for us to change or help changing / moving things according to our direction.
It's easier to look at "the bad" next to us thanlooking at "the bad" into us.
Fear is a product made by our mental, it's an emotion.
Every change in a life, a job, a social status involve a fear, sometimes very pronouced, something a very little bit. It's all depending how we approach the event.
Like many, without proper information or mental conditionning we approach new things with "a fear" or an anxiety. Until good informated, mental is wrought to welcome the new thing.
I believe too, psychedelics are not for everybody, every time.
Sometimes we're not ready to ride forward, because we didnt not understood something before walking to the next step. Body itself can warn us about things like that.
I love to think, our human collective experience is the reflect of our collective unconsciousness. From the better to the worst.
I remember reading the book of Barbara Ann Brenman : Le pouvoir Bénéfique des mains (idk the traduction in english, may be Hands of Light or something like that), While analyzing the aura of a patient that took lot of LSD and cannabis during parties and other (many years of lsd usage), having his aura damaged, not lighting as usual, not the same form as everybody.
In no case a guy is superior than another because he's taking psychedelics, many of us don't have a real need of taking theses substance. A responsible use, with sincerity and sacred is to be prescribed, i believe.
I would say, in general terms, each drug medicine should be used for specific illness, with a proper accompanying experimented guy. Using frequently or abusing of, can lead us to illusion, then "destruction". That's my case for cannabis, i'm trying to stop it with smoking tobacco, after more than 15y. I found my usage not benefic at all for me, because of my frequent use, i can't be sincere with my fellings, as there is allways this sort of cloud smoke over my head. I plan to use it less frequently, as once a day, to once a week, to once a .. Actually it was much more than 10/15 join in a day.
 
pastanostra said:
I remember reading the book of Barbara Ann Brenman : Le pouvoir Bénéfique des mains (idk the traduction in english, may be Hands of Light or something like that), While analyzing the aura of a patient that took lot of LSD and cannabis during parties and other (many years of lsd usage), having his aura damaged, not lighting as usual, not the same form as everybody.
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That sounds like the worst drugwar propaganda dressed up in new age zealotry.

pastanostra said:
In no case a guy is superior than another because he's taking psychedelics, many of us don't have a real need of taking theses substance. A responsible use, with sincerity and sacred is to be prescribed, i believe. I would say, in general terms, each drug medicine should be used for specific illness, with a proper accompanying experimented guy.
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I have to emphatically disagree. Entheogens are not for fixing illnesses, they are for expanding our horizons. There is no specific 'illness' that entheogens would cure. They can be worthy guides however, and as one rises above their current state, healing from certain issues is nothing but a beneficial side effect.

If someone wants to do mushrooms or DMT because they are sick... I'd say they shouldn't.

Boiling down the Sacred to some mundane repairman that is used to turn broken slaves into well-adjusted high-functioning slaves (with trained guidance of course so the slave won't get any weird ideas) is the worst insult to sacraments, magic and entheogens I can imagine.

pastanostra said:
Using frequently or abusing of, can lead us to illusion, then "destruction". That's my case for cannabis, i'm trying to stop it with smoking tobacco, after more than 15y.
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You mean addiction. Yea let's not get addicted, I agree with that. Tobacco is also quite addictive though, potentially more than marijuana. Take care with it.
 
PsyDuckmonkey said:
If someone wants to do mushrooms or DMT because they are sick... I'd say they shouldn't.

Boiling down the Sacred to some mundane repairman that is used to turn broken slaves into well-adjusted high-functioning slaves (with trained guidance of course so the slave won't get any weird ideas) is the worst insult to sacraments, magic and entheogens I can imagine.
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Depending on how you mean this, I may have to respectfully disagree. Sacred is the correct term for these substances and experiences, no doubt. But having that sacred experience can be immensely healing. And I don't think there's anything wrong with approaching these entheogens with the intention of healing one's self, especially for healing spiritual sickness.


Not all of them are created equal in this realm, however. In my opinion, when it comes to healing - Mushrooms > Ayahuasca > Cacti > LSD. Though I must admit my experience is limited when it comes to the cacti.
 
I badly expressed myself and i apologize for this (english not native language).

That sounds like the worst drugwar propaganda dressed up in new age zealotry.
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In the context of the book, it's comparing the form of the aura with patients that have consulted her for different disease, like psychic problem, hernia, broken legs. She went on another comparison on aura with guy who spoke from his favorite subject, a musicman playing his instrument, a guy who is angry ... All was to compare the aura form and never to make a drug war :thumb_up:

I have to emphatically disagree. Entheogens are not for fixing illnesses, they are for expanding our horizons. There is no specific 'illness' that entheogens would cure. They can be worthy guides however, and as one rises above their current state, healing from certain issues is nothing but a beneficial side effect.

If someone wants to do mushrooms or DMT because they are sick... I'd say they shouldn't.

Boiling down the Sacred to some mundane repairman that is used to turn broken slaves into well-adjusted high-functioning slaves (with trained guidance of course so the slave won't get any weird ideas) is the worst insult to sacraments, magic and entheogens I can imagine.
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I'm not sure to fully understand what you meant, but in the sacred, i meant, intention, guidance, kindness of the accompanying; I remember reading a text about Syrian Rue usage in traditionnal Iranian medicine, that said the usage of the seed in a treatment can cure & protect the patient from 72 disease ( i can't find the text atm, i'll post if find it, if somone got that ..). Traditional Iranian Medicine (TIM)is often accompanied prayer or a good intention while making a cure.
While idon't know much about TIM, i can believe there are some sort of custom in another traditional medicine, involving a sacred dimension while making a cure.

I'm a tobacco addict, and today after years of smoking, i would say, if i had a proper education (from ppl that was conscious of, not unconscious friends) concerning the cannabis and tobacco, with a proper distinction of them in usage , i may not smoke in a confonding way today. Tobacco destroyed my health and money, cannabis destroyed some social past part, using them not responsibly, consciously. These are symbolic for me.

Peace :thumb_up:
 
Hi! Just wanted to chime in...In my experience DMT can be a mini-death and a mini-psychotic breakdown. If a humnaoid being wearing a carny like one piece, pink costume, furlled up in a corner of a spaceship and staring at you insanley is not a pyschotic break I do not know what is. I imagine that a person who is mean and nasty and unconcious would have a great deal of trouble with such feelings and imagerey, particularly because troubled persons can not stand losing control to a more powerful being (this caused by intense feelings of helplesness in childhood.)
In anycase, if you are in a good mental state, I do not think anything can bring you down...or at least I would like to believe this!
 
Oh I have nothing against healing! Quite the contrary.

I was primarily denouncing what I understand as an attempt to co-opt and control entheogens under the umbrella of an authoritarian complex, whether under the flag of scientific or alternative medicine, limiting their access to the 'sick' based on some 'need' as judged or decided by an authoritarian priesthood.

This is pure evil in my eyes, and is the logic of the drug war.

Yes, entheogens heal. But they aren't 'healers'. They are teachers.

pastanostra said:
I would say, in general terms, each drug medicine should be used for specific illness, with a proper accompanying experimented guy.
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Let me illustrate how evil this is with a parable.

Let's say that there's a dystopian world where people have decided that sports are bad, because of all the sports-related injuries, the abuse of performance-enhancing drugs, all the damages top-class athletes suffer from pushing their bodies too hard...

So there is now a law saying that sports and P.E. are forbidden for everyone, except for those with some orthopedic illness. They are allowed to learn and practice some sports or gymnastics specific to healing their illness, but they need to stop once they are 'normal' again. Normal, of course, means weak, fat and slow, because you know, that's normal in a world where sports are illegal.

Do you see my point?

The goal is not to go from broken drone to borderline functioning drone. The goal is to go from any kind of drone to a wanderer, a poet, a magician, a human. Not to heal, but to learn and grow.

And it's the learning and growing that heals.

(ps. It's not that I deny the dangers of psychedelics. There are multiple. There are spiritual traps one can fall into. There's the trap of abuse. Not everyone who takes mushrooms or DMT comes out a wizard, some come out broken. But that's always been the nature of initiations.

Also, some entheogens are objective allopathic medicines. Cannabis literally, at a biological level, heals a number of illnesses. So do mushrooms. But reducing them to this, and based on this, denying their mystical significance, and limiting their access to the 'sick', potentially working in labs for years to get rid of the 'hallucinogenic' aspect and keep the 'medicinal' aspect to make sure nobody will ever have access to the Mystery... that's literally the mentality behind the drug war, and I will denounce it in all its forms.)
 
Hi guys, psyduck i appreciate your attitude towards drug war and my attitude would be the same if i haven't red the whole book and got that anti drug quote from it. Personally i find the book very good and helpful. However, later in the book Brennan describes healing of the aura with MDMA and corrects herself with next statement :

"Since my observations had always shown
psychotrophic drugs to have a negative effect on
the aura, I asked Heyoan(her spirit guide) about it. He said,
"That depends on who takes it, and what their
field configuration is at the time of taking it." - page 261

I think that this last two lines of text can't be more true for entheogens if we consider that field configuration is their psychological state.

"David came to his last session looking very
different. His aura was twice as bright and
much larger than usual. The cocoon had
opened. I asked what had happened to him? He
said that he had taken a drug popularily called
ecstasy or MDMA, a synthetic drug of the
phenylethylamine class synthesized from meth-
amphetamine and safrole, over the weekend.
Upon closer inspection, I could see that the
MDMA had opened the left side of the pineal
gland. The mucus from the third eye that had
been placed there partially from doing pot and
LSD was cleared away on the right side. There
was still work to be done, but the overall change
in David's field was amazing." - page 261

I understand that there is much bad information connected to all that new age mumbo jumbo, but i don't think that this book has anything with anti-drug propaganda. Fond regards :)
 
The older you get, the smaller the chance of getting a psychotic disorder becomes. If you haven't had a psychosis yet when you're way over 30, the chances of ever getting one is realy, realy small.

Psychotic disorders vary from very serious, like schizophrenia, to mild ones that are hard to detect by other people. Quite a few people have mild psychotic disorders. On the outside you often don't notice anything about these people.

A very good example are stalkers. Not everyone who's a stalker is psychotic. But probably most of them are. On the outside they often look pretty normal. You may even know somebody who's a stalker, from college or work. And though they look normal, they are not. They are convinced that they're supposed to be together with the person they're stalking. Even though they have been rejected several times and may even have got a restraining order. And yet they keep following the person who's got them this restraining order. Because they are being controlled by this powerfull dellusion.

So, although this is just a mild psychosis, there is little that's mild about this person's condition...it's so serious that he even has a restraining order. He is making his own life, and other peoples lives miserable. Yet, except from the restraining order, these type of people usually manage to hide the seriousness of their condition quite well. They are rational enough still, to be able to do that.

It is very hard to detect whether yourself or someone else is genetically predispositioned to become like that, because you have to know what "normal" is. Especially when it comes to touchy subjects like spiritual beliefs.

There are some typicalities though: lack of rational thinking, paranoia, obsessive behaviour, phobia's, depressions or manic behaviour, being mentally immature, or very withdrawn socially.

Those are all signs of being vulnerable.
 
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