The highest DMT dose pharmahuasca

[ChrisMMcD]

I'm wondering how much of an oral DMT dose would be needed to achieve an instant breakthrough.
I tried 50mg and felt like I could handle more. My sweet spot seems to be around 60-80mg, but I'm still considering taking a higher dose. I haven't come across any forum posts about extremely high doses of pharmahuasca.

What do you think about taking a dose of 250-300mg of DMT? Would I be able to handle it, and what kind of experience could I expect? Could I potentially reach the same realm as when I vape DMT?
And more generally, what is the maximum safe and feasible oral DMT dose? I have an experience with 10g dry cubensis trips, with salvia divinorum too, so I'm not new to intense trips.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I don't know if there is anyway for it to be "instant" considering that it has to be metabolized and enter the blood stream, which invariably takes time. You may be able to increase the harmala dose in order to get quicker onset. I don't think the amount of DMT will really increase the onset. Eating 3.5g of mushrooms seems to take about the same time to kick in initially as 7+ grams ime. It's just that the total ramping feels faster since one is going deeper with a bigger dose.

250-300mg sounds a bit risky, even with experiences with high dose mushrooms. They're just not the same. I'd recommend finding an interval you feel comfortable increasing by and take several journeys increasing by that increment each time to see how it suits you.

I have not seen anything on a safe maximum dosage for DMT aside from the LD50.

One love

 

[610nanometres]

I have not seen anything on a safe maximum dosage for DMT aside from the LD50.

Bit off topic, but this got me thinking. I don't know why, but I'd always just felt that dmt was something you couldn't physically overdose with, or actually harm yourself. Obviously, I'm not talking about damage to your psyche.
Found this paper Psychedelic 5-Methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine: Metabolism, Pharmacokinetics, Drug Interactions, and Pharmacological Actions and it says the LD50 in mice ranges from 48 to 278 mg/kg, depending on administration method.
Made me sad to think of the poor little creatures being purposefully killed with the spice, just to satisfy our curiosity.

As void says, oral administration would seem to preclude the possibility of 'instant' breakthrough.

 

[FractAlien]

I'm wondering how much of an oral DMT dose would be needed to achieve an instant breakthrough.
I tried 50mg and felt like I could handle more. My sweet spot seems to be around 60-80mg, but I'm still considering taking a higher dose. I haven't come across any forum posts about extremely high doses of pharmahuasca.

What do you think about taking a dose of 250-300mg of DMT? Would I be able to handle it, and what kind of experience could I expect? Could I potentially reach the same realm as when I vape DMT?
And more generally, what is the maximum safe and feasible oral DMT dose? I have an experience with 10g dry cubensis trips, with salvia divinorum too, so I'm not new to intense trips.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

I have taken 150 mg harmala with 300 mg twice. In this case, first the harmala and 30 minutes later the DMT fumarate.

The last time was with a friend who did a cleanse and vomited a little. At the end, he thanked me profusely for the experience. I lay down for a while and found myself in the middle of a nest of snakes of fire, energy, electricity. The OEVs were clear. The natural patterns ran like rivers.

This was in my first tests. Without much information and determined to provoke a 'miração', a vision, with just one dose (in this case two, harmala + DMT). Today I see that it would be more beneficial to ingest several smaller doses over time, as is done ritually. Until the desired level is reached.

 

[Voidmatrix]

For me this would be 3,054mg to 17,690mg.

So between 3g and 17g

One love

 

[Transform]

For me this would be 3,054mg to 17,690mg.

So between 3g and 17g

One love

Boofed, presumably? (That would make a good title for a great Xmas movie )

 

[thecosmicjoke]

I don't know if there is anyway for it to be "instant" considering that it has to be metabolized and enter the blood stream, which invariably takes time. You may be able to increase the harmala dose in order to get quicker onset. I don't think the amount of DMT will really increase the onset. Eating 3.5g of mushrooms seems to take about the same time to kick in initially as 7+ grams ime. It's just that the total ramping feels faster since one is going deeper with a bigger dose.

250-300mg sounds a bit risky, even with experiences with high dose mushrooms. They're just not the same. I'd recommend finding an interval you feel comfortable increasing by and take several journeys increasing by that increment each time to see how it suits you.

I have not seen anything on a safe maximum dosage for DMT aside from the LD50.

One love

Very insightful way to frame the ramping of high-dose psychedelics. I’ve taken heavy doses of LSD before, looking at my friends and thinking - “This is coming on fast”. It completely makes sense that a high dose would just have more distance to cover in the same amount of time.

In other words, both low and high doses arrive to their respective thresholds in the same amount of time, but at entirely different speeds due to covering different distances.

Great point. Will have to share that with my psychedelic buddy when he gets into town.

 

[Jees]

I had once a pharmahuasca of 200mg harmalaHCL, then an unknown time in between as it is too long ago, then followed by 450 mg freebase D that was due cleaning out a little container. All of the energy turned out as a suffering and I wished to be dead to make it stop.
The biggest mistake was that I was tired when embarking. I was not able to conduct the flow, like a little copper wire that got too much electricity trough it. I could only burn, for hours.

It was not only physically demolishing as a feeling but I got an answer to the question why I lived as a being in these realms, the key to my existing and that answer was everything I didn't want to hear because it was the most perverted reason imaginable, so there I got also a psychological whoopass as an extra push in pain valley.

I remember the phase to be able to determine a tree in the garden trough the window. I begged to "this realm" as if it was a raft while I was drowning in pain. Never before I had so much hope and relief to see a glimpse of this earthly layer. Since then I consider the thought that this earthly layer of existence, which we easily condemn due confinements and limitations, could as well be a safe "parking spot" to be in. With many limitations that act as safeguards rather than a jail. Because without limitations all is possible and that ain't necessarily nice.

Later I learned to integrate the lesson, especially the painful psychological one. As I look at it now, it was not fully wrong, it was poorly/one sided interpreted. During that trip I engaged in the worst possible interpretation. Probably that way it could feed itself in a self affirming circle, a self affirming truth, a looping effect. I made it worse than necessary and fueled the shock myself unaware.

Later, talking to buddies about their worst trips, the item of not being well rested or suffering from accumulated sleep deprivation, a disturbed bio rhythm ..., returned as a common ground. It's an ideal hummus for things going potentially south. Your armor is gone, your resilience is a rusty pile of gears.
Sometimes this might open doors positively too I'm sure of that, but it's a bit russian roulette with a bazooka.

Do I consider this a bad trip? Yeah and no, according how to label it. I did learn things otherwise impossible, insights that help me put things in perspective.
Would I do it again? Absolutely no, it was utter torment.

 

[Yugoslav]

Hi Jees,
I had worst trip 350 H 200 Dmt, the numbers could be higher, but it was dangerous, forget about the visuals. I never posted it, cuz I don't want my booboo to float and get the bed rep. But I really screwed myself up, I came out alive, because after I realise what happened my sitter bought me an iv dripp. Btw you were my mentor in 2011 I think.

 

[Violet Quark]

I usually got 125mg Harmala 250mg Fumarate. Hits me just right, I get 3-4 hrs of floating around in bliss

 

[Pandora]

125mgs did the trick for me but it was a horror show. Good things resulted in the aftermath.

 

[Here&Now]

It's weird how the required dose of DMT for strong effects can be so individual when taking pharmahuasca. For me, 35mg of DMT and 150mg of harmalas was a borderline breakthrough. That's the highest I've dared to go with the DMT dose.

 

[Orion]

Can definitely relate to that Pandora

OP mentions a dramatic increase from their usual dosage, from 80mg to 300mg. A couple more doses in between those amounts may be a good idea. Sometimes a third more than last time feels like you took more than double the amount. The dose response of aya/pharma can be a bit wonky.

 

[blig-blug]

It's weird how the required dose of DMT for strong effects can be so individual when taking pharmahuasca. For me, 35mg of DMT and 150mg of harmalas was a borderline breakthrough. That's the highest I've dared to go with the DMT dose.

The need of higher doses of DMT are consistently reported with low doses of harmalas, from what I've seen, so it makes sense because a lot of DMT will be lost as inhibition won't be complete.

Speaking about "the dose of DMT required" without mentioning if we are talking about a fully inhibitory dose of harmalas or not doesn't make much sense, and I think it's the reason why such massive DMT doses continue being reported as required for a strong experience.

If anyone needs anything close to or greater than 100mg DMT when taking no less than 200mg harmalas for a breakthrough experience (in an empty stomach), please let me know, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I doubt it's the case.

 

[Here&Now]

The need of higher doses of DMT are consistently reported with low doses of harmalas, from what I've seen, so it makes sense because a lot of DMT will be lost as inhibition won't be complete.

Speaking about "the dose of DMT required" without mentioning if we are talking about a fully inhibitory dose of harmalas or not doesn't make much sense, and I think it's the reason why such massive DMT doses continue being reported as required for a strong experience.

If anyone needs anything close to or greater than 100mg DMT when taking no less than 200mg harmalas for a breakthrough experience (in an empty stomach), please let me know, I'd be glad to be proven wrong. I doubt it's the case.

I understand what you mean, but I think the evidence you requested in your final paragraph is provided in this very thread. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

Incoming AI slop summary:

Person	Harmala dose (mg)	DMT dose (mg)	Salt / form notes	Reported character of experience
FractAlien	150 harmala	300 DMT fumarate (twice)	DMT as fumarate; harmala taken 30 min before each DMT dose	Intense visionary state (“nest of snakes of fire… clear OEVs”); later felt multiple smaller titrated doses would be wiser.
Jees	200 harmala HCl	450 freebase DMT	Freebase DMT, oral with MAOI	Hours of extreme suffering, physically and psychologically demolishing, wished to be dead; integrated later but would never repeat.
Yugoslav	~350 harmalas	~200 DMT	Approximate; user says numbers “could be higher”	“Worst trip”; required IV drip afterward, described as dangerous and not something to emulate.
Violet Quark	125 harmala	250 DMT fumarate	DMT as fumarate	“Hits me just right”; 3–4 hours of blissful floating.
Pandora	125 harmala	~125 DMT (inferred)	Context implies pharmahuasca, DMT not explicitly stated	“Did the trick… but it was a horror show”; very difficult at the time but with beneficial aftermath.
Here&Now	150 harmalas	35 DMT	DMT form not specified	Borderline breakthrough; that is the highest DMT dose they have dared to take orally with MAOI.

 

[universecannon]

I'm wondering how much of an oral DMT dose would be needed to achieve an instant breakthrough.
I tried 50mg and felt like I could handle more. My sweet spot seems to be around 60-80mg, but I'm still considering taking a higher dose. I haven't come across any forum posts about extremely high doses of pharmahuasca.

What do you think about taking a dose of 250-300mg of DMT? Would I be able to handle it, and what kind of experience could I expect? Could I potentially reach the same realm as when I vape DMT?
And more generally, what is the maximum safe and feasible oral DMT dose? I have an experience with 10g dry cubensis trips, with salvia divinorum too, so I'm not new to intense trips.

I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Sounds like a decoherent nightmare to me (like when I tried 16g mimosa and 150g caapi). Chasing a smoked DMT style state through upping oral DMT never worked that well for me and resulted in schizophrenic-esque experiences with way way too much stimulation to calm down. YMMV.

I found it better to just up the harmala amount, keep the DMT low, relax in silent darkness and just modulate that state with vaped DMT/changa. I'll probably never take oral DMT again tbh. It has its uses and I had many relatively amazing experiences but after more honest reflection I found it too messy/decoherent and not nearly as useful as other methods. But I also seem to get more nausea these days than when I was 20.

 

[blig-blug]

I understand what you mean, but I think the evidence you requested in your final paragraph is provided in this very thread. Unless I'm misunderstanding.

Incoming AI slop summary:

Person	Harmala dose (mg)	DMT dose (mg)	Salt / form notes	Reported character of experience
FractAlien	150 harmala	300 DMT fumarate (twice)	DMT as fumarate; harmala taken 30 min before each DMT dose	Intense visionary state (“nest of snakes of fire… clear OEVs”); later felt multiple smaller titrated doses would be wiser.
Jees	200 harmala HCl	450 freebase DMT	Freebase DMT, oral with MAOI	Hours of extreme suffering, physically and psychologically demolishing, wished to be dead; integrated later but would never repeat.
Yugoslav	~350 harmalas	~200 DMT	Approximate; user says numbers “could be higher”	“Worst trip”; required IV drip afterward, described as dangerous and not something to emulate.
Violet Quark	125 harmala	250 DMT fumarate	DMT as fumarate	“Hits me just right”; 3–4 hours of blissful floating.
Pandora	125 harmala	~125 DMT (inferred)	Context implies pharmahuasca, DMT not explicitly stated	“Did the trick… but it was a horror show”; very difficult at the time but with beneficial aftermath.
Here&Now	150 harmalas	35 DMT	DMT form not specified	Borderline breakthrough; that is the highest DMT dose they have dared to take orally with MAOI.

Yes, you are misunderstanding: none of that says that those doses are needed for a breakthrough dose, as any dose beyond the necessary one will also result in a strong experience.

For example, I can have a breakthrough experience with 200mg harmalas + 50mg DMT, the fact that I could also have one with 200mg harmalas and 100mg DMT says nothing about the DMT dose required for it.

In that table only two entries have 200mg harmalas or more, both of them are noted to have been extremely overwhelming.

What I question is not that high doses of DMT may result in a breakthrough, but that, given 200mg harmalas or more, the DMT dose required for a breakthrough will be large, specifically anywhere close to or more than 100mg. The evidence required to disprove this are doses of 200mg harmalas or more, around 70mg DMT, and no breakthrough.

 

[Here&Now]

Yes, you are misunderstanding: none of that says that those doses are needed for a breakthrough dose, as any dose beyond the necessary one will also result in a strong experience.

For example, I can have a breakthrough experience with 200mg harmalas + 50mg DMT, the fact that I could also have one with 200mg harmalas and 100mg DMT says nothing about the DMT dose required for it.

In that table only two entries have 200mg harmalas or more, both of them are noted to have been extremely overwhelming.

I figured that might be the retort. I'm sure I could create a logical counterargument, but I'm no good at this type of back-and-forth, lol. I'll just concede that you're right in the sense that some of the users in this thread may be taking way more DMT than needed for their particular breakthrough dose. That could certainly be the case considering how massive some of the doses are.

 

[blig-blug]

I figured that might be the retort. I'm sure I could create a logical counterargument, but I'm no good at this type of back-and-forth, lol. I'll just concede that you're right in the sense that some of the users in this thread may be taking way more DMT than needed for their particular breakthrough dose. That could certainly be the case considering how massive some of the doses are.

I'm not trying to be clever or anything, I would really like to know if there is actually a lot of variability in the dose of DMT required, or if that perception is caused by some people dosing harmalas below full inhibition and other at or above.

Investigating more reported doses in the Nexus may be a good way to get more data. Also, I would really like for people who consider they need +100mg to try 75mg or so with 200mg harmalas on an empty stomach, that would be the most direct way to test if it's a sensitivity issue or not.

I'm inclined to think it's not a sensitivity issue because most of the time, people who say they need a lot of DMT seem to tend to report low doses of harmalas, but I haven't fully verified this. Another reason I'm inclined to think that is because with vaporized DMT the variability is not that much, but that by itself is not enough to be decisive, as it could be related to absorption speed or efficiency, for example. So the main reason is the first one.

 

[Here&Now]

I'm not trying to be clever or anything, I would really like to know if there is actually a lot of variability in the dose of DMT required, or if that perception is caused by some people dosing harmalas below full inhibition and other at or above.

Investigating more reported doses in the Nexus may be a good way to get more data. Also, I would really like for people who consider they need +100mg to try 75mg or so with 200mg harmalas on an empty stomach, that would be the most direct way to test if it's a sensitivity issue or not.

I'm inclined to think it's not a sensitivity issue because most of the time, people who say they need a lot of DMT seem to tend to report low doses of harmalas, but I haven't fully verified this. Another reason I'm inclined to think that is because with vaporized DMT the variability is not that much, but that by itself is not enough to be decisive, as it could be related to absorption speed or efficiency, for example. So the main reason is the first one.

Yeah, your point about full inhibition and the harmala-to-DMT ratio makes a lot of sense, and it could account for what I'm looking at as the difference in dosing requirement. I totally agree about the usefulness of gathering data from the Nexus. I bet enough pharma threads have been created to where the answer is there to be found.