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The most euphoric experience of SWIM's life

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[quote='Coatl]If I remember correctly scopolamine was the better of the two for nausea... I'll look for a source.[/quote]

Yes, this is what I've read, but I haven't really seen any case studies on it. If you run across one let me know.

The higher toxicity of scopolamine is a downside. But if less is needed for the same anti-nausea effects provided by hyoscyamine, then doses can be adjusted accordingly and perhaps you'll get a better experience from it. I don't know. SWIM has ordered some Datura inoxia seeds which are almost exclusively scopolamine, so he can test this out himself shortly.
 
I cannot find good information on Datura inoxia seed alkaloid content. Most places say 0.44% but don't give a maximum and minimum alkaloid content. They are not all 0.44% obviously. Is that number an average? A maximum? A minimum? None of the sources say.

There really seems to be a lack on information about Datura inoxia. SWIM is not so sure he wants to try using 1-3 seeds of Datura inoxia now.

Here's the information I've gathered so far about Datura inoxia seeds:

1 seed weighs about 10 mg.

1 seed contains about 0.44% alkaloids with about 97% being scopolamine with traces of atropine.

2-4 mg of scopolamine is a potential lethal dose.

So, assuming those sources are right, then 46 seeds could contain 2.024 mg of scopolamine, a potential lethal dose. That's quite a bit more toxic than Datura stramonium seeds.

I read one Erowid report where 20 Datura inoxia seeds were enough to cause serious delirium and send a person to the hospital. So SWIM is not so sure about trying Datura inoxia and thinking he should stick to using 1-3 Datura stramonium seeds because they're less toxic.

Does anyone know anything more about Datura inoxia? I can find quite a bit of information on safe dosage ranges for Datura stramonium seeds (if you look really hard), but nothing for Datura inoxia yet. It definitely seems to be more toxic. Would 1-3 seeds of Datura inoxia be safe? I know that 1-3 seeds of Datura stramonium is absolutely safe

What's the maximum reported alkaloid content for Datura inoxia seeds? For Datura stramonium the maximum reported is 0.7% while the average is between 0.3% and 0.4%.
 
69ron said:
But SWIM is cautious about mixing the two and would probably try the combination with really low doses of THH first. THH being a mild MAOI might increase the effects of hyscyamine a lot, so that’s what worries him. SWIM is going to exercise extreme caution with that combination, but doesn’t have THH right now so he’ll test this some time in the future.
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Torsten from The Corroboree said:
MAOI does not increase the effect of brugmansia/datura directly. The difference is marginal. however, the combined effect of a tryptamine with a tropane should not be underestimated.
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Dagger said:
69ron said:
But SWIM is cautious about mixing the two and would probably try the combination with really low doses of THH first. THH being a mild MAOI might increase the effects of hyscyamine a lot, so that’s what worries him. SWIM is going to exercise extreme caution with that combination, but doesn’t have THH right now so he’ll test this some time in the future.
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Torsten from The Corroboree said:
MAOI does not increase the effect of brugmansia/datura directly. The difference is marginal. however, the combined effect of a tryptamine with a tropane should not be underestimated.
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You're right to be cautious. We don't want to lose you either.
From my experiences with the datura-LSD combo though, i have learnt that LSD somehow deminishes the scary, deleriant effects of datura. This probably has to do with the stimulant effects of LSD.
 
Swim tried this combo yesterday, He did not have the most euphoric experience of his life. He thanks it was euphoric like just mescaline, he says it compleatly took away the nausia. the seeds made his eyes blurry yesterday and they still are today and he still fills a bit off today. He does not know about combining these compunds as he felt the negative effects of the seeds. He still had a good day though 300mg of mescaline and three seeds got a little intense but not off his charts.
 
redeyesmj said:
Swim tried this combo yesterday, He did not have the most euphoric experience of his life. He thanks it was euphoric like just mescaline, he says it compleatly took away the nausia. the seeds made his eyes blurry yesterday and they still are today and he still fills a bit off today. He does not know about combining these compunds as he felt the negative effects of the seeds. He still had a good day though 300mg of mescaline and three seeds got a little intense but not off his charts.
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SWIM never tried it with that much mescaline. That's a lot of mescaline. SWIM took 74 mg of mescaline, not 300 mg!

If you got blurry vision from the seeds then you took too much. Adjust the dosage lower. SWIM used a dosage that doesn’t cause effects on it’s own. Blurry visions is a sign too much was used.

Try what SWIM did. He used 3 seeds of Datura stramonium specifically. They weighed 20 mg. He used 74 mg of mescaline. The datura dose causes no effects on its own and doesn't cause blurry vision, that's for damn sure. The 74 mg of mescaline is barely psychedelic at all. Trying a different amount of these substances and reporting a difference experience is to be expected.

Your seeds could be more potent or heavier than SWIM's and that could explain the difference in effects other than the fact that you took 300 mg of mescaline! That's one hell of a lot of mescaline. The mescaline may have just overpowered the poteniation effects of the datura.

While a small dose of Datura stramonium seeds (3 weighing 20 mg) potentiated the effects of a small dose of mescaline for SWIM, a larger dose of Datura stramonium seeds might have the opposite effects. With the dose SWIM took of the seeds, no effects from the seeds were felt, only potentiation was felt.

Different doses may have very different effects:

Instead of 1 cup like you drank, I drank 15 cups of coffee and I found that my ability to type was impaired, unlike your claim that it improves your ability to type. So my tests proved that caffeine impairs your ability to type and does not improve it like you claim.
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For SWIM 300 mg of mescaline is near the "out of body" experience dose.
 
From Erowid:

Peruvian curanderos have been known to add Datura (a solanaceous plant) to the boiled San Pedro extract to give it stronger powers of divination
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So SWIM is not alone in experiencing potentiation from this combination. It works for SWIM that's for sure:)
 
Coatl, do you know the amount traditionally added to the San Pedro brew? I can’t find any recipes anywhere.
 
They actually use a number of botanicals in the Trichocereus-based brew known as "Cimora".

I am not sure how much they use but I believe the normally use the flowers (as most Ayahuasqueros do).

I remember reading somewhere that a single flower is added to a brew for 3-5 people (but I cannot remember where, seems like that happens a lot with me, huh?)


"Cimora" Brew Plants and Admixtures-

Trichocereus spp.
Neoraimondia macrostibas
Pedilanthus tithymaloides
Isotoma longiflora
Brugmansia spp. (Or sometimes Datura)
Iresine spp.


69ron check out "Cimora" and see what you can find out, perhaps you can unlock the chemical mysteries of the Ayahuasca-like brew and create a "Cimora" pill?

Do you have Trout's Notes?
 
polytrip said:
Do you get the dry mouth and other datura effects at that dose?
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No. If you get dry mouth you took way too much seeds. There should be no noticeable effects from the seeds other than potentiation of mescaline.

For SWIM, 3 seeds of Datura stramonium on their own produce mild stimulation, and mild euphoria, and no other effects at all, not dry mouth, not urine retention, no blurry vision, no dilated pupils, and absolutely no mental effects. No other effects should be felt. If they are felt, lower the dose. The only effects you should feel are mild stimulation and mild euphoria, and nothing else at all. No body effects, except your stomach might feel a little strange for the first 15 minutes, but that’s it.

Redeyesmj obviously took too much Datura because he felt bodily effects from the seeds. I don't know what kind of seeds he used, but it was definitely too much.
 
"Cimora" is in Trout's Notes.

Redeyesmj obviously took too much Datura because he felt bodily effects from the seeds. I don't know what kind of seeds he used, but it was definitely too much.
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That is what it sounded like to me as well.

69ron do you grind the seeds or how do you take them?
 
SWIM took 3 seeds of properly identified Datura stramonium. Together all three weighed 20 mg. SWIM chewed them thoroughly in his mouth for about 2 minutes. 5 minutes following that it was then washed down with tea containing 74 mg of mescaline HCl.

Some was likely absorbed sublingually.
 
Ok.... and they probably were not totally ground either.

I'd put them in a coffee grinder next time and swallow the powder.... OR.... what if you just help the datura seed powder in your lip?
 
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