RayOfLight
Rising Star
Google Ron Paul. He will fix your broken system. FREEDOM!!
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The official Ron Paul thread
- Thread starter RayOfLight
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RayOfLight
Rising Star
abolish the federal reserve, pull all troops out of foreign lands. get the government out of everyones business and end the corporate takeover thats corrupted your politics. Basically a system where your free, you can do what you want without harming others. Its what the country was founded on .
RayOfLight
Rising Star
you really gotta listen to him, either way your country is going to collapse, its bankrupt. Ron paul is the only one that actually acknowledges reality.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
as far as the actual mechanics of what he would do I'm not sure, what I am sure about are the principals he represents. He's the only honest politician Ive ever seen. I wish I was an american just so I could vote for him.
BTW he is getting lots of momentum for his 2012 run. He has a huge grassroots following and its only getting bigger.
BTW he is getting lots of momentum for his 2012 run. He has a huge grassroots following and its only getting bigger.
Ron Paul is an idealistic libertarian who has never presented an iota of evidence as to how he will accomplish any of his lofty goals (over the past 12 years of presidential rumblings) in the face of the entrenched power structure. I have had numerous friends who have debated with me the merits of Ron Paul and all they do is cite his goals. Without mechanisms of actions and plans for implementation, it's all just talk. The president really doesn't have all that much power...that's just not how our system works, as any basic US political science/theory course will tell you.
Why do you call him an "honest politician"? What evidence do you have that he's not owned by special interests/lobbyists? Sure, they may not be the exact same ones we're used to seeing, but I guarantee you, everyone on the Hill (Capital Hill) got there because they know someone/have received large sums of $$$ from somewhere; if someone gives you mad duckets, you are indebted to them and therefore, not an "honest politician". Imo, the system we have doesn't allow for "honest politicians"
Why do you call him an "honest politician"? What evidence do you have that he's not owned by special interests/lobbyists? Sure, they may not be the exact same ones we're used to seeing, but I guarantee you, everyone on the Hill (Capital Hill) got there because they know someone/have received large sums of $$$ from somewhere; if someone gives you mad duckets, you are indebted to them and therefore, not an "honest politician". Imo, the system we have doesn't allow for "honest politicians"
RayOfLight
Rising Star
Well, removing troops from all over the world is pretty simple, just call them to come home. As far as getting back to sound money goes I really don't know all the details of that but I'm sure Ron Paul knows how to go about it.
I don't think stopping illegal wars, getting the government out of everyones business, preserving your constitutional rights and having sound money are lofty goals, to me it just seems like common sense.
Try to keep some faith in humanity snozzleberry, not everyones corrupt .
I don't think stopping illegal wars, getting the government out of everyones business, preserving your constitutional rights and having sound money are lofty goals, to me it just seems like common sense.
Try to keep some faith in humanity snozzleberry, not everyones corrupt .
Ray- I think your intentions here are good, but you're coming in support of someone who's making some pretty lofty goals. Removing the troops from the world is "pretty simple"? Do you have any idea of the instability such an action would cause? The Middle East would implode in a matter of days. We (the US) still have troops in Germany from the WWII!RayOfLight said:
If you're going to post somewhere in favor of a given candidate, why don't you support his ideas with some reasoning of your own as to why these ideas will fix the society? What seems like common sense to you isn't so for your neighbor, so some elucidation is needed.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
the fact is that if there Isnt a major overhaul of your spending its going to lead to hyperinflation and the usa is going to implode. regardless of whether you think having troops everywhere is good you cant afford it.
Ill tell you what , you give me one of Ron pauls supposed lofty goals and I'll do some research on what he says about how he will accomplish it.
Ill tell you what , you give me one of Ron pauls supposed lofty goals and I'll do some research on what he says about how he will accomplish it.
I'll use your list - Pick any one:RayOfLight said:
1) Abolish the Federal Reserve. -How do you propose this be done and what will take its place?
2) Bring the troops home. -How do you deal with what will surely be near anarchy in many parts of the world?
3) Get governments out of businesses. -How would we regulate business and keep a working fair system? Don't we need someone to make sure things are done right?
4) Honest politician. -How can someone rise to power in the current system by remaining 100% honest? Is this possible for any politician in any system?
cker
Rising Star
I'll take a shot at these questions 
1) Bitcoins
2) Anarchy will work itself out over time
3) If this also means get business out of politics, I'm all for it.
4) Seriously? What does that mean? There's a power structure in the US that's larger than the Presidency. A truly 'honest' President may not be 'allowed' to do anything.
Easy answers aren't.
1) Bitcoins
2) Anarchy will work itself out over time
3) If this also means get business out of politics, I'm all for it.
4) Seriously? What does that mean? There's a power structure in the US that's larger than the Presidency. A truly 'honest' President may not be 'allowed' to do anything.
Easy answers aren't.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
I think if theres anarchy in some places because of troop withdrawl so be it, people need to work out their problems. And before you refer to world war 2 that was a real war that was a real threat to the world and congress voted to go to war. Now you have the president sending troops to all these third world countries meddling in everyones business and people wonder why america is so hated.
question 3 I would say how do we keep a working fair buisness system WITH government involved? corporations lobby the government.
question 4 Well Ron Paul Isn't in power and maybe theres some truth to the idea that you need to be corrupt to rise to power, however I'm an idealist, I can't just say ' well the worlds fucked so whats the point '
I think we need to be the change we want to see in the world.
Question 1 Is hard for me to answer . That has to be figured out by Ron Paul and his experts. All I know is the federal reserve is corrupt and has to go.
question 3 I would say how do we keep a working fair buisness system WITH government involved? corporations lobby the government.
question 4 Well Ron Paul Isn't in power and maybe theres some truth to the idea that you need to be corrupt to rise to power, however I'm an idealist, I can't just say ' well the worlds fucked so whats the point '
I think we need to be the change we want to see in the world.
Question 1 Is hard for me to answer . That has to be figured out by Ron Paul and his experts. All I know is the federal reserve is corrupt and has to go.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
When my friend comes over to visit me I'll ask him about ron pauls plan to abolish the federal reserve and see what he says. He has a masters degree in economics and worked in the government his whole life. Ill update after we talk
cker...I'm assuming that's in jest?
Ray, here's the thing...I don't want to sound like an ass, but it's probably gonna be unavoidable, so I'll do my best to be polite and ask that you not take this the wrong way...
Having been born and raised in Washington DC, I have had a keen interest in politics my whole life...being a Washingtonian grants a unique perspective, trust me. I double majored in Anthropology and Political Science at university, taking several graduate courses despite my status as an undergrad. I have independently observed and studied the US political system and climate (along with some global politics) as well as had hours of classwork, homework, tests, papers and research with which to examine and explore these issues.
Additionally, I have read and listened to multiple books by Noam Chomsky, Cornell West, Huey Newton and numerous other political figures intimately associated with the manner in which American politics work. The reality of the situation is enough to make any sane person's skin crawl. In examining the neo-colonial/neo-imperialist policies of the US and the manner in which US politics is conducted (as well as the manner in which the US conducts, controls and attempts to manipulate world politics) it is readily apparent that the entire system is both corrupt and negligent. Allow me to present some brief and very simple examples (I can present more elaborate examples, such as the US manipulation of numerous non-US governments, such as Haiti, through rigged elections and military coups, but presenting the history takes a decent amount of time, which I don't have at present):
Well over 60% of American citizens were in support of healthcare reform...not only that, a majority of Americans also supported a public option, which was subsequently scuttled by the politicians. When the representatives are not espousing public sentiments, that's a major problem, indiciative of systemic corruption.
The 2004 US elections were rigged (as were the 2000 elections, although the evidence for the rigging is less visible in that case, although the conclusion of the election at the hands of a partisan Supreme Court is a pretty dead giveaway) as evidenced by the documentary Hacking Democracy and numerous sources.
If you look at the campaign contributions of American Senators and Representatives, every single one of them receives major campaign funds from corporations and special interest groups...additionally, the Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that corporations are now free to make unlimited campaign contributions to any candidate they wish, because corporations are,for all intents and purposes, considered people and campaign donations are a form of "free speech".
There are countless other examples of problems with the American political and American-hegemonized-global political system...to discuss them all here is impractical.
----------------------------------------------
Since I began typing this other points have been raised. Real quick...do you know that the US military base currently nearing completion in Iraq is the LARGEST permanent base constructed on non-native soil anywhere in the world? The troops are not coming home, namely because we were in Iraq to secure US interests...don't believe me? Google "Wolfowitz Doctrine"...google "Bush Doctrine"...look at the crisis currently going on in Syria and the manner in which the US is using it as a pretext to further encroach on Russia's Eastern supremacy through extending NATO troops further and further east. Look at the political executions carried out in the US by the FBI (don't believe me? Google COINTELPRO)...the list goes on and on and on. The system is corrupted down to the core and there's no way around it.
Ray, here's the thing...I don't want to sound like an ass, but it's probably gonna be unavoidable, so I'll do my best to be polite and ask that you not take this the wrong way...
Having been born and raised in Washington DC, I have had a keen interest in politics my whole life...being a Washingtonian grants a unique perspective, trust me. I double majored in Anthropology and Political Science at university, taking several graduate courses despite my status as an undergrad. I have independently observed and studied the US political system and climate (along with some global politics) as well as had hours of classwork, homework, tests, papers and research with which to examine and explore these issues.
Additionally, I have read and listened to multiple books by Noam Chomsky, Cornell West, Huey Newton and numerous other political figures intimately associated with the manner in which American politics work. The reality of the situation is enough to make any sane person's skin crawl. In examining the neo-colonial/neo-imperialist policies of the US and the manner in which US politics is conducted (as well as the manner in which the US conducts, controls and attempts to manipulate world politics) it is readily apparent that the entire system is both corrupt and negligent. Allow me to present some brief and very simple examples (I can present more elaborate examples, such as the US manipulation of numerous non-US governments, such as Haiti, through rigged elections and military coups, but presenting the history takes a decent amount of time, which I don't have at present):
Well over 60% of American citizens were in support of healthcare reform...not only that, a majority of Americans also supported a public option, which was subsequently scuttled by the politicians. When the representatives are not espousing public sentiments, that's a major problem, indiciative of systemic corruption.
The 2004 US elections were rigged (as were the 2000 elections, although the evidence for the rigging is less visible in that case, although the conclusion of the election at the hands of a partisan Supreme Court is a pretty dead giveaway) as evidenced by the documentary Hacking Democracy and numerous sources.
If you look at the campaign contributions of American Senators and Representatives, every single one of them receives major campaign funds from corporations and special interest groups...additionally, the Supreme Court ruled in 2008 that corporations are now free to make unlimited campaign contributions to any candidate they wish, because corporations are,for all intents and purposes, considered people and campaign donations are a form of "free speech".
There are countless other examples of problems with the American political and American-hegemonized-global political system...to discuss them all here is impractical.
----------------------------------------------
Since I began typing this other points have been raised. Real quick...do you know that the US military base currently nearing completion in Iraq is the LARGEST permanent base constructed on non-native soil anywhere in the world? The troops are not coming home, namely because we were in Iraq to secure US interests...don't believe me? Google "Wolfowitz Doctrine"...google "Bush Doctrine"...look at the crisis currently going on in Syria and the manner in which the US is using it as a pretext to further encroach on Russia's Eastern supremacy through extending NATO troops further and further east. Look at the political executions carried out in the US by the FBI (don't believe me? Google COINTELPRO)...the list goes on and on and on. The system is corrupted down to the core and there's no way around it.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
I appreciate that thoughtful and intelligent post snozzleberry. In the back of my mind I figured that even if Ron Paul were to somehow beat the rigged elections he would just get assassinated like JFK.
The world is headed down the toilet it appears. That being said all you can really do is be the change you want to see in the world and try your best despite the odds being against you. Hopefully by doing that the universe is going to make it all better. thats my hope anyways.
The world is headed down the toilet it appears. That being said all you can really do is be the change you want to see in the world and try your best despite the odds being against you. Hopefully by doing that the universe is going to make it all better. thats my hope anyways.
cker
Rising Star
My comments were a not completely serious. I should clarify:
1) Bitcoins- I'm not serious at all, but I hope the Bitcoin concept takes off.
2) Anarchy will work itself out over time- I'm disturbed the US is in so many wars. There's a lot to fix at home.
3) If this also means get business out of politics, I'm all for it.- Here I am serious. Citizen's United is a travesty.
4) Seriously? What does that mean? There's a power structure in the US that's larger than the Presidency. A truly 'honest' President may not be 'allowed' to do anything.- I believe this also. The checks and balances in the American system prevent rapid populist change from occuring. That aspect of the Constitution is both beautiful and sinister.
1) Bitcoins- I'm not serious at all, but I hope the Bitcoin concept takes off.
2) Anarchy will work itself out over time- I'm disturbed the US is in so many wars. There's a lot to fix at home.
3) If this also means get business out of politics, I'm all for it.- Here I am serious. Citizen's United is a travesty.
4) Seriously? What does that mean? There's a power structure in the US that's larger than the Presidency. A truly 'honest' President may not be 'allowed' to do anything.- I believe this also. The checks and balances in the American system prevent rapid populist change from occuring. That aspect of the Constitution is both beautiful and sinister.
Good thread!
As a non-US Nexian with some interest in the affairs of the US, I would like to point out a couple of things which I believe to be relevant.
I hope this post doesnt come across as too supercilious, but the folks in the US need to remember (and then ponder deeply upon) the fact that the majority of voters have a visceral response to the promises uttered by prospective candidates for power which is solely based on the BS they are told.In the hope for 'making things better' they will rally round their preferred candidate and despite the lessons imparted from pretty much every preceding election, they will cling to the promises made when all but those with memory problems should be able to recall that politicians promise much but invariably deliver something different.
Its easy to promise this and that, but once in power certain strictures prevent these promises being delivered.A recent example is the promised closure of Guantanamo which remains to be fulfilled.From whats been mentioned already in this thread, I think Mr Pauls ability to 'abolish the Fed' will prove to be an example of this, if this is indeed what he claims.The Fed is ultimately a private institution and the US citizens' dissatisfaction with it make the words highly appealing but doesnt make them realisable.See this link:
www.globalresearch.ca
I also think that the 'science' of economics is wholly vacuous with clear contradictions which many people have a sense of, but the subject is so interminable and 'complicated' that its best left to the 'experts'.An example that springs to mind (and I am absolutely no expert in this field) is the concept of inflation.Commonly, inflation is explained as 'too much money chasing too few goods' when, IMO, the definition needs a single word adding to it to make it more accurate- "too much DEBT-money chasing too few goods".This is because there is no permanent stable money stock, due to the reliance upon bank credit to supply the majority of money to the system.Those who understand what fractional reserve banking is all about will understand this; those who dont may have fallen asleep now (and a minority with an enquiring mind may be inclined to look into what this system actually entails).
I sincerely believe that the authority of any President of the US over the Fed is constrained and this makes a mockery of the idea of 'The People" having the power to change the status quo by exerting their 'democratic' rights.
And Snozz, Ive seen the site where the US planned to build its Embassy in Baghdad and it was such an unbelievably large plot of land.Permanent presence is the plan, methinks.
As a non-US Nexian with some interest in the affairs of the US, I would like to point out a couple of things which I believe to be relevant.
I hope this post doesnt come across as too supercilious, but the folks in the US need to remember (and then ponder deeply upon) the fact that the majority of voters have a visceral response to the promises uttered by prospective candidates for power which is solely based on the BS they are told.In the hope for 'making things better' they will rally round their preferred candidate and despite the lessons imparted from pretty much every preceding election, they will cling to the promises made when all but those with memory problems should be able to recall that politicians promise much but invariably deliver something different.
Its easy to promise this and that, but once in power certain strictures prevent these promises being delivered.A recent example is the promised closure of Guantanamo which remains to be fulfilled.From whats been mentioned already in this thread, I think Mr Pauls ability to 'abolish the Fed' will prove to be an example of this, if this is indeed what he claims.The Fed is ultimately a private institution and the US citizens' dissatisfaction with it make the words highly appealing but doesnt make them realisable.See this link:
The Federal Reserve is a Private Financial Institution - Global Research
Court Rules Federal Reserve is Privately Owned Case Reveals Fed’s Status as a Private Institution Below are excerpts from a court case proving the Federal Reserve system’s status. As you will see, the court ruled that the Federal Reserve Banks are “independent, privately owned and locally...
www.globalresearch.ca
I also think that the 'science' of economics is wholly vacuous with clear contradictions which many people have a sense of, but the subject is so interminable and 'complicated' that its best left to the 'experts'.An example that springs to mind (and I am absolutely no expert in this field) is the concept of inflation.Commonly, inflation is explained as 'too much money chasing too few goods' when, IMO, the definition needs a single word adding to it to make it more accurate- "too much DEBT-money chasing too few goods".This is because there is no permanent stable money stock, due to the reliance upon bank credit to supply the majority of money to the system.Those who understand what fractional reserve banking is all about will understand this; those who dont may have fallen asleep now (and a minority with an enquiring mind may be inclined to look into what this system actually entails).
I sincerely believe that the authority of any President of the US over the Fed is constrained and this makes a mockery of the idea of 'The People" having the power to change the status quo by exerting their 'democratic' rights.
And Snozz, Ive seen the site where the US planned to build its Embassy in Baghdad and it was such an unbelievably large plot of land.Permanent presence is the plan, methinks.
Great response corpus! I don't find it supercilious at all. I think it's an accurate commentary on politics in general and well-applied to the US situation. To your comment on economics, I agree. At the core, fractional-reserve banking is absurd, financial derivatives are ludicrous…and debt swaps seem beyond comically macabre. Throw in the IMF/Worldbank policies and even though the US gets the "long end of the stick" so to speak, the entire globe (US included) gets a raw deal, while a few profiteers make bank.
I agree with the points you make and am more than willing to admit...I was swept up in Obama's promises and "hope". However, since that time, I have done the vast majority of my...alternative? research and begun to use my "formal" education in conjunction with that to see/analyze what's really going on. The promise of change when times are bleak is a very powerful tool...especially when the populace is ill-informed.
Obama is a prime example...as the election campaign was underway, all you heard trumpeted on the corporate/listener-supported news was how he wasn't taking special interest money. However, Obama, Biden, Rahm Emmanuel and others in the administration were some of the politicans most heavily-backed by financial institutions. Fast forward 12-16 months and suddenly the thought on bail-out decision-making goes from "What happened to hope and change?" to "Well, duh...these are the people who supported your election campaign". This is one of countless anecdotes that can be applied to practically every US politician.
Also, I heard that they were planning on expanding the embassy under Obama. Are you aware of this...has that happened/is it happening?
I agree with the points you make and am more than willing to admit...I was swept up in Obama's promises and "hope". However, since that time, I have done the vast majority of my...alternative? research and begun to use my "formal" education in conjunction with that to see/analyze what's really going on. The promise of change when times are bleak is a very powerful tool...especially when the populace is ill-informed.
Obama is a prime example...as the election campaign was underway, all you heard trumpeted on the corporate/listener-supported news was how he wasn't taking special interest money. However, Obama, Biden, Rahm Emmanuel and others in the administration were some of the politicans most heavily-backed by financial institutions. Fast forward 12-16 months and suddenly the thought on bail-out decision-making goes from "What happened to hope and change?" to "Well, duh...these are the people who supported your election campaign". This is one of countless anecdotes that can be applied to practically every US politician.
Also, I heard that they were planning on expanding the embassy under Obama. Are you aware of this...has that happened/is it happening?