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The official Ron Paul thread
- Thread starter RayOfLight
- Start date
It's only 3 a.m. and we still have a few good hours of sleep ahead of us.joedirt said:
$14,351,721,904,116.25 and rising at a rate of $3.92 billion a day.
This strikes me as non-sequiturial and really doesn't help me understand why you think I'm being egoic or what personal issues you think I need to address.smokerx said:
Over the past several days, I’ve been hit with a lot of ad hominem attacks/replies to logical arguments I have presented. If you really think I need to work on something, please tell me (as I requested in my last post to you). If this is just rhetorical mudslinging, it has no place on the Nexus and I would kindly ask you to cease and desist.
FiorSirtheoir
Rising Star
SnozzleBerry said:A minor point but corporation comes from the Latin corporare, meaning body...essentially leading to the same point you make, but just wanted to clarify that. (sorry, I'm a pedant, I can't help it)
As I see it, the issue is not "juridic persons" but rather the rights extended to juridic persons through Supreme Court decisions, which is largely the source of the problems we face today. As far as the dates you throw out, I don't follow. Are you saying that the unions were wrong or that the union busting was wrong? That American socialist ideology was wrong or that the red-scare was wrong? The way it's worded, as the American socialism and union movements are what are currently excluded from history, I assume that's the omission you are referring to and are against the other sides presented in coprorate controlled history. That is something I very much agree with.
Fior, I feel like you have a lot to add but find myself somewhat saddened by the apparent condensing of your post...care to share more?
There is alot of 'patriot' mythology out there saying that the decline of the United States began in 1913 with the Federal Reserve Act and then in 1933 with the FRB being reenacted and the United States being found insolvent, HJR 192 removing gold from circulation, then the combination of equity and common law in 1936, and then all three primary court venues being combined in 1966. That it was Roosevelt and Truman that were responsible for the socialist move, from republic to democracy. I really don't want to go into great detail on it because my point is that it is all void as an operation of law, because all of these things are based upon an unconstitutional act, which resulted in the nationalization of citizenship, which was never the grantors intent, nor was the change done constitutionally or with due process of law(See Federalist Papers 39). The system is not broken, it has been overthrown, it has been usurped, we are in the midst(143 years) of one of the greatest breach of trust in history, over shadowed, perhaps, only by Caesar's betrayal of the Celts, and the Roman war machine destroying every civilized and advanced culture it could. The concept of the Juridic person has been around for at least 2500 years, the problems we face today stem from the 14th Amendment (the nationalization of citizenship) which was put into place by Congress through the Reconstruction Acts, which involved the erecting of States within the jurisdiction of existing states without their consent and thru military duress, bills of attainder, genocide, denial of representation in Congress, all kinds of unconstitutional acts, all for the purpose of centralizing power in Washington City, in the United States Congress. There are some great resources and research that has been done on this topic by this man John Ainsworth Presents America's Remedy. Though I don't think he would be very understanding in regard to the purpose and theme of the Nexus, I have heard him speak and his argument in law is rock solid, overcoming the political question doctrine, and showing the root cause of all the rampant breeches of the separation of powers and enumerations in the United States of America.
I know that there is much more to law/government, and our relationship to it, than over the last 200 to 500 years or even 5000 years. I am actually beginning to believe that Christianity is a plague, not the teachings of Yahshua Messiah, but the Roman Cult Institution called Christianity, honestly I feel the same about the institutions of all the Major religions. They have all become a perversion and shadow of what was intended - victims of revisionist history. Perversions and shadows of the true nature of the universe (creation), the Self-Existing One (creator, Supreme Personality, the Originator and Proprietor of All Things), ourselves as conscience beings, and all of these aspects as they relate to one another.
I honestly see breech of trust, perversion, and delusion all over the place, but I can feel the change coming, and I know that it is not in the box. Many of the 'patriot mythology' ideas are 'out of the box' (strawman, juridic person, etc..) but they are mad ramblings; an incoherent combination if many many things, some true, some absolutely false. This may not be as much detail as you would like, I will gladly volunteer more, I am just pressed for time. I hope I am conveying my intent clearly and not rambling - rambling happens, at times, when I am in a rush.
FiorSirtheoir
Rising Star
joedirt said:a1pha said:
Almost time to hit the snooze again!
Those numbers are only one side of the books. See cafr1.com
MySmelf
Rising Star
I'm glad we have someone like Ron Paul in congress and I really hope this bill passes, though I doubt it. But I do not support him for president!
Ron Paul is really just a constitutional conservative. Though I agree with him on ending the wars and the federal reserve. I could never vote for someone who thinks all abortion is murder (even using the "morning after pill" could be a crime), is against public schools, thinks "Don't ask don't tell" is a good policy, is against any kind of universal healthcare, wants to retro-actively deport all "illegals" and revoke natural born citizenship, thinks evolution is "just a theory" (just like gravity is just a theory?). He also wants to get rid of income tax and levy a "national sales tax". I know this sounds good on the surface but if no one paid taxes on the money they earned and much higher taxes on the money they spent, then the richest millionaires and billionaires would only pay a tiny fraction of their wealth in taxes while making even more untaxed money off their untaxed money exponentially. While the poor and working class who have to spend almost 100% of their earnings would end up being taxed the most! I don't like the current income tax laws but doing away with it all together isn't the answer IMO.
Ron Paul is really just a constitutional conservative. Though I agree with him on ending the wars and the federal reserve. I could never vote for someone who thinks all abortion is murder (even using the "morning after pill" could be a crime), is against public schools, thinks "Don't ask don't tell" is a good policy, is against any kind of universal healthcare, wants to retro-actively deport all "illegals" and revoke natural born citizenship, thinks evolution is "just a theory" (just like gravity is just a theory?). He also wants to get rid of income tax and levy a "national sales tax". I know this sounds good on the surface but if no one paid taxes on the money they earned and much higher taxes on the money they spent, then the richest millionaires and billionaires would only pay a tiny fraction of their wealth in taxes while making even more untaxed money off their untaxed money exponentially. While the poor and working class who have to spend almost 100% of their earnings would end up being taxed the most! I don't like the current income tax laws but doing away with it all together isn't the answer IMO.
smokerx
ThGiL fO TiRipS
My message was deleted by me not moderator please lets not lie in here ok ? And It was not abusive just thought there was no need for it. Which moderator changed the message from deleted by USER to deleted by MODERATOR ? Was is you Sozz ? If deleted again than it will only confirm what I said previously . Christian DID NOT deserved the way you talked to him you know that very well. He only expressed his opinion. Who are you to tell him what to think ? Do you think you are better than him ? Why do you need evidence for everything ? The reason why I asked those questions was exactly this. Even if there is no prove in our believes we do not have to prove to you or anyone else what we believe in. You could either agree or disagree with Christian. What you did was disrespectful and I felt like to stop that victimization.
Be more tolerant and respectful.
Maybe there is a reason why what you said "Over the past several days, I’ve been hit with a lot of ad hominem attacks/replies to logical arguments I have presented." is happening. Have you though about that ?
Be more tolerant and respectful.
Maybe there is a reason why what you said "Over the past several days, I’ve been hit with a lot of ad hominem attacks/replies to logical arguments I have presented." is happening. Have you though about that ?
Yes...it was me. I was curious as to how you responded when you were asked to explain your accusations. If this offends you, I'm sorry; I have always been a very curious person by nature and as you have been attacking me without providing any evidence, I had the faint hope that there would maybe be something to help me understand your attacks in that post. I undeleted it, read it, then re-deleted it. I re-deleted it because you had deleted it initially, indicating you did not wish it to be public and I intended to honor this sentiment. No one knew your comment was deleted except for you and the Mods/Trav, as deleted posts are only visible (as being deleted) to the users to whom they belong and the mods/Trav. No one would have thought there was anything inappropriate because no one would have known that your post had been deleted or by whom.smokerx said:
Now here I'm confused...first off, a1pha was the one who initially asked Christian to elaborate on his post. As Christian's sentiments echoed my own, I felt that it was beneficial to chime in, as someone with similar views, to explain how one could bolster their arguments so that an individual like a1pha would not say, "Hey that sounds like CT talk." Could you please show me how "the way I talked to him" was disrespectful? My firsts posts were more than gracious, calmly explaining my opinion and presenting possible ways that he could, imo, better articulate his views with supporting evidence. Once he began to respond in a flip manner, I responded with a less gracious tone.smokerx said:
Where did I tell him what to think? Can you please show me where I did this? To my mind, at no point did I tell him what to think...if I had it would have been pretty pointless as we have a similar outlook; he just chose to make blanket statements without citing any evidence or support. All I did was point out the fact that evidence or support goes a long way and prevents people from accusing you of engaging in CTs. I think I made it quite clear in my response (when he asked me if I was a politician; somehow insinuating that in a democracy politicians are the only people who can know the system...despite the fact that in a democracy, the power of the system is supposedly derived from the people) that I do not think that I'm better than him. Why would you ask me such a question when I already stated in my response that I do not feel that I am any better than him?
Why do I need evidence? Because we are discussing Politics...this is not a subjective psychedelic experience, these are real events and people whose validity and statements can be checked. I need evidence for the same reason people demand evidence in the scientific threads. I need evidence to be sure that we are not engaging in CTs instead of political discussion. Citing evidence for any claim that is not subjective is a standard practice at the Nexus, look throughout the threads and you will see that this is the case. I value politics very much; as such I do not take kindly to statements made with no regard for their truth (especially when someone rips politicians for doing essentially the same thing). In the case of Political Science, there IS "proof in our belief". Things that happen in consensus reality (i.e. political events) can be checked and verified...as such, when engaging in a debate about them, facts are an appropriate requirement, imo.smokerx said:
Whether I believe in god or alternate universes or whatever has no bearing on factual evidence relating to political events. I can't prove a god or alternate universe, whether or not I believe in it. I can prove the existence of COINTELPRO, of FBI Assassinations, of CIA Drug Smuggling, of political contributions, of special interest donations, of Investment Banking deregulations, of "Free" Market manipulation and just about any other political event that merits discussion. There are facts in politics and they can be checked. As such, belief does not hold up...facts are available, so facts are necessary.
I did disagree...I do not think my disagreements were out of line, especially given the flippant attitude displayed by Christian when asked, by a1pha and then myself, to provide evidence to back up the claims he was making. I still don't see what was disrespectful about my words. My tone was certainly not the most gracious it could have been...then again, that was at least, in part, a result of the attitude being displayed by the other party. This does not make my tone "right", but as much as I would like to be the type of person who is able to maintain a calm and clearheaded disposition when others do not, that is not who I am. I am striving to work on this, but it is one of my flaws and try as I might, I am not always able to turn the other cheek. I usually apologize once I calm down. I do not think anyone here was being victimized and am unsure as to why you feel that Christian can't speak for himself.smokerx said:
RayOfLight
Rising Star
I guess I see your points,why bother having someone like Ron paul in the highest level of government. One president cant do anything to change policy, thats why bush pretty much single handidly dismantled the constitution and sent america to war based on a bunch of lies and propaganda , obviously a president cant do anything.
Since someone like Ron paul will never be able to actually do anything he talks about why vote for him?
Ron paul knows all this but hes just running for president for the fun on it,
he knows he cant effect change.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom on this issue, I was a fool for supporting Ron Paul.
Since someone like Ron paul will never be able to actually do anything he talks about why vote for him?
Ron paul knows all this but hes just running for president for the fun on it,
he knows he cant effect change.
Thank you for sharing your wisdom on this issue, I was a fool for supporting Ron Paul.
RayOfLight
Rising Star
elru said:
First of all I didn't insult anyone, I just feel that an end to blowing up school busses full of kids should take precedent over someone not getting good medical care and possibly dieing from it, I stand by that position. I wonder what an Iraqi kid who just had his whole family blown to pieces would feel about the lights being out at your train station.
Supporting someone running for president doesn't mean you have to drop everything in your life and join him on his campaign , its as simple as voting .
RayOfLight
Rising Star
joedirt said:
By the look of things from a rational point of view we're fucked, the corporations own us . my stance on this comes from personal spiritual 'beliefs' and to many of you they may seem irrational. Thats fine though, I can agree to disagree.
christian
Rising Star
Thanks for defending me, Smokerx.
-Snozzleberry, i think Smoker is simply trying to tell you to just chill out a bit. Your posts seem overintense for someone who should be more in tune with his higher self, rather than the superficial bullshit of Governments.
These are my views, and you may disagree, but please rather than now ask me to provide evidence as to why i have just said what i have said, just accept it. Smoker is correct about your need for "evidence" being tiresome. You either agree or you don't. Try not to take it personally.
-To be honest, i do have difficulty understanding how a psychadelic mind can be interested in the pathetic ramblings of our western governments which have banned plants like Marijuana which could have saved the trees which were cut down to make paper instead. This is all i need as evidence to state Governments are sick. Nobody needs CT's because the government has more than provided enough evidence to illustrate how wrong it is. One fantastic example is the war in Afganistan. What a load of crap that is...
-It doesn't take much brains to realise that the governments promises have not turned out to be true. A free America is promised and touted, but in reality your government has you living in a high security prison of fear from terrorism or your own puritanical musclebound andrenalin junkie police..:roll:
-Just my thoughts, and no need to take personally.
-Snozzleberry, i think Smoker is simply trying to tell you to just chill out a bit. Your posts seem overintense for someone who should be more in tune with his higher self, rather than the superficial bullshit of Governments.
These are my views, and you may disagree, but please rather than now ask me to provide evidence as to why i have just said what i have said, just accept it. Smoker is correct about your need for "evidence" being tiresome. You either agree or you don't. Try not to take it personally.
-To be honest, i do have difficulty understanding how a psychadelic mind can be interested in the pathetic ramblings of our western governments which have banned plants like Marijuana which could have saved the trees which were cut down to make paper instead. This is all i need as evidence to state Governments are sick. Nobody needs CT's because the government has more than provided enough evidence to illustrate how wrong it is. One fantastic example is the war in Afganistan. What a load of crap that is...
-It doesn't take much brains to realise that the governments promises have not turned out to be true. A free America is promised and touted, but in reality your government has you living in a high security prison of fear from terrorism or your own puritanical musclebound andrenalin junkie police..:roll:
-Just my thoughts, and no need to take personally.
smokerx
ThGiL fO TiRipS
Look man just calm down a bit. I like Ron as well he is different from other politicians. How ? He is honest person and very clever one too. How can you get any evidence of how could Ron do anything without actually giving him vote and put him in power ? What kind of evidence did you get from Bush (hitler) before he became president and managed to murder hundreds of thousands people around the world even thousands of Americans ? What kind of evidence Obama (big mouth) give you before he became president. None
So what kind of evidence can Chrisitian give you ? What do you really want from him ? He expressed his opinion as I did. You either like it or not. That's it. End of discussion . Don't judge people by their opinions and please don't ask them to leave thread just because they don't have some evidence for you. I enjoyed this thread till I get to the part where you picked on Christian.
Edit: Better to say alpha picked on him and you carried on.
here is how you decided he should get out of this thread :
"If you're not going to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting in this thread"
I ask why ? he did nothing wrong just expressed his opinion and just because he cant provide some prove to you or alpha he needs to leave ? why ? Its not fair man.
So what kind of evidence can Chrisitian give you ? What do you really want from him ? He expressed his opinion as I did. You either like it or not. That's it. End of discussion . Don't judge people by their opinions and please don't ask them to leave thread just because they don't have some evidence for you. I enjoyed this thread till I get to the part where you picked on Christian.
Edit: Better to say alpha picked on him and you carried on.
here is how you decided he should get out of this thread :
"If you're not going to add to the discussion, please refrain from posting in this thread"
I ask why ? he did nothing wrong just expressed his opinion and just because he cant provide some prove to you or alpha he needs to leave ? why ? Its not fair man.
christian
Rising Star
Once again, thanks Smokerx.
-You have made some fair points, and i think what you said makes sense. In politics, "evidence" is very shaky ground like you said, because as history has proved time and time again, people in power will say whatever they need to say to get where they want to be, and manipulate things, and cannot be trusted to carry out their promises. This is a simple fact.
-We all have our points to make , and it is not fair for someone else to judge what is threadworthy or not, and in doing so sounding like a control freak, but it is correct for them to just ignore posts they don't agree with.
-You have made some fair points, and i think what you said makes sense. In politics, "evidence" is very shaky ground like you said, because as history has proved time and time again, people in power will say whatever they need to say to get where they want to be, and manipulate things, and cannot be trusted to carry out their promises. This is a simple fact.
-We all have our points to make , and it is not fair for someone else to judge what is threadworthy or not, and in doing so sounding like a control freak, but it is correct for them to just ignore posts they don't agree with.
So, I picked on him because I asked him to support some pretty big statements like,smokerx said:
"Because the united states isn't a country after all.And the police are there to protect the corporation, not the public"
and
"As far as the united states government is concerned, you either work for the corporation, or you are nothing. The only true freedom you have is when you choose to fly away from your corporation...."
The level of apathy displayed by many frightens me far more than the corporations mentioned above. Since we can't seem to have a rational discussion at this point, Ill duck out. Cheers.
christian
Rising Star
a1pha said:
aLPHA 1, kindly calm down and please be reasonable. These were my views, and i do believe them to be correct. They may be incorrect, and that's ok. If i didn't explain them then that's because i don't feel like doing so, it's not my duty to justify myself to you. HANDLE IT. :shock: