The Spirituality of Pharmacological Action, or, Drugs as Spirits

[Routemaster]

I have concluded that some synthesized tryptamines produce this same 'spirit' feeling mentioned in this thread. One example would be 4-ACO-DMT, most notably on the comeup.

Alkaloids in some cases can influence a trip with plants/cacti, the plant matter would also possibly have an influence on effects such as nausea, how can you differentiate when consuming both?

One other influence on these aspects of the trip is setting and the mindset of the person. I just think there are too many factors to assume an answer on this. If it was a double-blind I don't think the person could tell plant vs synthetic, I imagine even placebo doses are having an effect in MDMA/Psilocybin studies.

 

[Bancopuma]

nen888, a recent talk by Rupert Sheldrake at Breaking Convention on psychedelics and morphic resonance that may be of interest and relevant to this discussion and what you are alluding to.

[YOUTUBE]

 

[nen888]

exactly Bancopuma, thanks!
(i hadn't seen that talk)
also, i was thinking in terms of Field Theory in physics, things like the Higgs Field..non-localised, but dynamically related to specific and localised things..molecules being an example..

some curanderos and others have said that the 'field' of ayahuasca has changed with it's increased use in different and wider contexts, as Maria Sabina said of her mushroom helpers in a more dramatic example..

as far as 'plant spirits', which i am sympathetic towards, i think to some extent the question of do we create our own reality is always involved, but the mental headset question i usually come to, for do people believe in plant spirits, is:
if you are given dmt extracted from your grandmother's cerebrospinal fluid, or dmt made in a lab,
would there be a difference?

.

'spirits' (plural) to me suggests many different fields, within larger ones

 

[exquisitus]

.. and may function in a more non local way which also relates to molecules..

how so? care to elaborate a bit?

 

[exquisitus]

Rupert Sheldrake

i admit i have read the original _new scientist_ article (here vol 90, p. 776) that started it all a really loooong time ago, when a good percentage of people here weren't even existing as glimpses in their parents' eyes

you know what bothers me somewhat...

why so many decades later there is no significant research progress or even at least something somewhat meaty to sink a pair of rational teeth into? why is this still a fuzzy feel good new agey thing? perhaps people just like it way more that way, as a fuzzy feel good kinda thing it could be invoked for any and all purposes, appended in support of any and all arguments, kind of a universal fix-it-all tool? because morphic resonance, touche.

 

[Jees]

Relevant: The Nexian - Issue 1: Jungle Stewing , page 21

...Rodrigo himself… Well, I had brought some DMT to the jungle and had told him
all about it. And he was curious- I told him what it was and how I had extracted it , and that this is what I work with back at home. And he was like, Oh, let's check this out! He sat down and loaded a pipe, and he didn't even blink- I was trying to find a way to tell
him, Hey, this is another level- I've never seen someone who is so cavalier about smoking DMT. He was totally nonplussed. And he took a hit that would have put me on the far moon of Endor for an hour… but he had this powerful experience, and he came back and said, You know, that was amazing, and I saw visions… but that medicine is all light. It's pure light. When they do ayahuasca ceremonies, from the minute they start harvesting vine and start cooking, they're singing Icaros, they're singing songs, doing chants, doing prayers… then fourteen
hours later the yage is ready, they're pouring it in the pot, they're singing more, they're getting in the ceremonial space. Then the real singing begins and people start drinking. The singing never stops until the morning when it's all said and done. So it's guided, completely, with these songs from the very onset. And he said, DMT, it would need all of that times ten. You know, I don't want to freak you out, he's telling me, but that place isn't all love and light. There's energy there that's conflicting, running in another direction, counter to what you want. And that stuff is easily kept under control in the medium they're using, songs and sounds and everything. But without all that… and I
know this, because when I first got there one shaman asked me: You've worked with this medicine of yours a lot, haven't you? And I don't know why, but my ego got a little puffed up; I was like, Yeah, quite a bit, yes.
How can you tell? So he told me, You are just loaded with barbs and arrows… which for them is symbolism for psycho-spiritual venereal disease. (laughs). He said, You're just rotten with it. So he spent like two days doing rituals with tea leaves and smoke and mapacho, and just clearing me out. And I realized, this is the fruit of years of DMT work, and having all these visions… I guess I picked up some flotsam while I was over there...

One reason more for set - setting - intention.
I'm not OK over shamans by default, we all know why to remain skeptic, but something strokes. Nick Sand wasn't going lightly over spice neither, 2 days fasting + meditation.

 

[nen888]

.. and may function in a more non local way which also relates to molecules..

how so? care to elaborate a bit?

..i don't know that elaborating in something so conjectural is helpful, i was really looking more at ways of defining 'spirit' that relate to molecules or atoms themselves, rather than the individual pharmacological action...but my generalised notion was Scalar Fields, in physics, and how they relate to dynamics..for instance where 'is' the Higgs Field? it's not localalised but affects locations..
i was simply speculating fields around structures, but first think we should do some double blind experiments that attempt to eliminate autosuggestion..