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Theoretical problem-solving of simple A/B tek.

Migrated topic.

Heulas

Rising Star
I have no chemistry knowledge, but after hours of reading and few extractions, i think i understood something. (or at least i hope so) :)

Thinking of an A/B tek:

Let's say sufficient pKa is reached and 99% of the spice is freebased instanly, or in few seconds.

Let's assume you are using a standard solvent: you know it works for sure and your pulling technique has always done its job before.

- We know that an excess with lye actually doesn't hurt the spice, nor the pulling process.

- We also know that heat of the solution or solvent increases yield, but can't make the difference between a 0,3% yield and a 1.5%.

- We know adding NaCl can only ionize more the solution, thus helping the pulling process.

- Somebody argue that tap water vs distilled vs non-ionized vs filtered is relevant, yet there is not strong evidence.

- Somebody argue that powdered mimosa is better.

The only problem with a low yield (like 0,200g from 100g MH) should be looked for in the prior steps to basification:

1) Bad MH.
2) Thick pieces of MH.
3) Bad exhaustion of the MHRB in the acidification step.
4) Not adding salt.

As far as my knowledge goes, you can find solutions for the steps before:

1) Nothing you cand do except buy a new MH.
2) REMOVED powdered.
4) Add salt.

3) Nobody knows, some say to simmer, some to boil, some for 2 hours, some for 8 etc, some say acetic acid, some say Hcl, etc...

So this is, in my newbie opinion, probably the most important part of an extraction, because if the other variables, if applied, could only increase yield, the trick must be in the third one, which is not (at least for my researches on the nexus) deeply understood.

This is just a theoretical work that fits my level of knowledge on the topic, it could be complete bullshit.
 
I've seen multiple times people stating there is no need to go below 4-5 pH but I'm not certain that is true, however the needs could be different for Mimosa vs Acacia.
 
Heulas said:
Hmmmm, can't really understand why pH instead of pKa.
Because chemistry.

The pKa is a constant and applies to the substance.

The pH is a measure of proton availability and applies to the solution.

To address your original questions: it could be anything, but I suspect that your procedure may not be optimal. If your bark material is in the form of larger pieces, it would help a lot if you shredded or even powdered these before attempting the extraction. Longer acid soaks and base soaks may help free the alkaloids from the plant matrix. Longer contact time and more shaking of the layers of solvent and soup could also improve the yield. Finally, if you properly applied the best possible techniques, the bark may be low grade.

If this was your first go (or one of your first) at an extraction, I'm almost certain that any non super-duper amazing yield is just part of the regular learning curve. At the first attempt, any result is already a success.
 
Sore said:
I've seen multiple times people stating there is no need to go below 4-5 pH but I'm not certain that is true, however the needs could be different for Mimosa vs Acacia.

Mixup alarm. Low PH is acidic and acidic is bad for the dmt. You want high PH over 11.
 

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Ulim said:
Sore said:
I've seen multiple times people stating there is no need to go below 4-5 pH but I'm not certain that is true, however the needs could be different for Mimosa vs Acacia.

Mixup alarm. Low PH is acidic and acidic is bad for the dmt. You want high PH over 11.

Read the post though, He's talking about acid boils for a/b
 
Thank you all for your answers.

Still not clear why:
2) REMOVED powdered.
.

I can't even remember what i wrote there, in any case forgive me for eventually breaking the forum rules.

Added:

If some mod could let me notice my mistake, it would be appreciated, this would help me to really not fall for it again. :)
 
I was talking about plant material, but i didn't mention any source as i remember so far. :)
Maybe i didn't get the real meaning of that rule, as english is not my first language.
 
Mindlusion said:
Ulim said:
Sore said:
I've seen multiple times people stating there is no need to go below 4-5 pH but I'm not certain that is true, however the needs could be different for Mimosa vs Acacia.

Mixup alarm. Low PH is acidic and acidic is bad for the dmt. You want high PH over 11.

Read the post though, He's talking about acid boils for a/b
Could be for both tho depends what you take first.
Thinking of an A/B tek:

Let's say sufficient pKa is reached and 99% of the spice is freebased instanly, or in few seconds.
 
Ulim said:
Sore said:
I've seen multiple times people stating there is no need to go below 4-5 pH but I'm not certain that is true, however the needs could be different for Mimosa vs Acacia.
Mixup alarm. Low PH is acidic and acidic is bad for the dmt. You want high PH over 11.
For the naive head bearing folk who potentially read Ulim wrong: "acidic is bad for dmt" means here: bad for making solvent pulls on dmt. It does not mean that acidic will be detrimental to dmt as a molecule, people went to low pH before while treating the wood with final OK yield.
 
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