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THH extraction tek

Migrated topic.
soulfood said:
endlessness said:
The salt step is the one that removes unwanted alkaloids such as vasicine and vasicinone. A friend of burnt from this forum tested and saw that the salt precipitated stuff indeed does not have those alkaloids, if Im not mistaken shulgin once tested the product from somebody who also did the same and was also free of those alkaloids
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Most of the time for me this is fine. But a couple of times after 48hrs refrigeration no precipitate whatsoever was seen. So I kept having to boil it down and re-saturate with salt then just a little came out each time after. I always make sure to salt the alks first time round but on the repeat cleanups I just filter and then rebase.



Anyway 50mgs ascorbic treated extract (ATE) sublingually gave no noticeable effect so 30 minutes later the same dose was repeated, then later 50mg original extract sublingual and another ATE 100mg oral followed by 70mg DMT fumerate (crazy dosing method I know).

What followed was a pharma trip that had had OEV's that were very clear, but with a very clear head (absolutely no cloudiness or looping) but a little short on duration although it seemed much longer. Usual dose 50mg DMT and 200mg harmala spaced apart 30 minutes.
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So taken was 50+50 ATE +50mg original +100 ATE' ATE was 200 spaced apart'
Experience sounds like THH'
150mg original would have felt cloudy' before the spice hit'
150mg of THH would have been very clear'

ATE is "Active"



Bliss

Nobuoni +
 
endlessness said:
honestly, I wouldnt say one report proves or shows much about its activity yet.. He also took together the original stuff together, so...

lets wait till more people try.. would be nice if it did work :)
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Only was ingested 50mg of original' this is insufficient for maoi'

So ATE is active' as to of what it is' ATE ???

The main thing here surely would be that the boiling the alks in ascorbic acid never killed them'
The same as washing the salted alks in Methanol' that result never killed the alks'
All down to experimentaion'
No knowing of what ATE is without it being analysed'
Good result :)

Bliss

Nobuoni +
 
130 grams of seeds yielded 7.4 grams of fine yellow brown powder'
It goes dark and glassy as the methenol is cooked off'
Then light yellow brown when ground'
So boil the seeds' salt out' dry' wash out the alks with methanol' evaporate the spirit' grind the resulant product'

Blessings'

Nobuoni +
 
Nobuoni said:
soulfood said:
endlessness said:
The salt step is the one that removes unwanted alkaloids such as vasicine and vasicinone. A friend of burnt from this forum tested and saw that the salt precipitated stuff indeed does not have those alkaloids, if Im not mistaken shulgin once tested the product from somebody who also did the same and was also free of those alkaloids
Click to expand...

Most of the time for me this is fine. But a couple of times after 48hrs refrigeration no precipitate whatsoever was seen. So I kept having to boil it down and re-saturate with salt then just a little came out each time after. I always make sure to salt the alks first time round but on the repeat cleanups I just filter and then rebase.



Anyway 50mgs ascorbic treated extract (ATE) sublingually gave no noticeable effect so 30 minutes later the same dose was repeated, then later 50mg original extract sublingual and another ATE 100mg oral followed by 70mg DMT fumerate (crazy dosing method I know).

What followed was a pharma trip that had had OEV's that were very clear, but with a very clear head (absolutely no cloudiness or looping) but a little short on duration although it seemed much longer. Usual dose 50mg DMT and 200mg harmala spaced apart 30 minutes.
Click to expand...


So taken was 50+50 ATE +50mg original +100 ATE' ATE was 200 spaced apart'
Experience sounds like THH'
150mg original would have felt cloudy' before the spice hit'
150mg of THH would have been very clear'

ATE is "Active"



Bliss

Nobuoni +
Click to expand...

For sure that much of the original would have been very clouding for myself. But I'm a little skeptical due to the short duration especially with such a high dose of DMT involved.
 
Quote :-

Tetrahydroharmine is present in Banisteriopsis caapi sometimes as the main alkaloid, but more often in slightly lesser amounts than harmine. It’s present in very small amounts in Peganum harmala. Some Peganum harmala lacks this alkaloid. Tetrahydroharmine is active as an MAOI in the 100-200 mg range. Its effects are extremely mild compared with harmine and harmaline. It does not cause mental clouding like harmine or harmaline and tends to help you focus and gather your thoughts together. It’s more euphoric and generally more pleasant than harmine or harmaline. In the doses used for pharmahuasca it’s neither sedating nor stimulating. Most people prefer it over harmine and harmaline because it leaves you far more clear headed. Pharmahuasca high in harmine is very similar to certain types of real ayahuasca.


Bliss

Nobuoni +
 
do you still need to follow the dietary guidelines with small doses of sublingual THH?
i have always avoided rue and caapi, from fear of a hypotensive reaction.
 
reflexion said:
do you still need to follow the dietary guidelines with small doses of sublingual THH?
i have always avoided rue and caapi, from fear of a hypotensive reaction.
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I've found with high doses of harmalas it's good to have something light just after consumption. Even once after 200mg harmala I had some fairly painful stomach cramps. A couple of slices of toast sorted that out. This incident was a one of.

As you are talking about sublingual which bypasses the stomach you should be okay. I'd just try to stick to foods that will compliment the experience.

Don't forget that all chemicals effect different individuals in different ways. But dietary risks surrounding pure harmalas are usually overstated.
 
Most MAOIs affect tyramine metabolism. That's dangerous and requires special dietary restrictions.

Tyramine is destroyed by MAO-A enzymes in the digestive system. Food high in tyramine is dangerous to consume when taken normal MAO-A inhibitors because they permanently destroy the MAO-A enzymes allowing tyramine to pass right through for many days. That leaves your body very vulnerable and you can actually die from it.

The harmala alkaloids are a little different from the typical MAO-A inhibitors. The harmala alkaloids do not destroy MAO-A enzymes, they only temporarily bind to them, making them inactive for just a few hours. This means the harmala alkaloids are reversible MAO-A inhibitors, because they only temporarily bind to MAO-A and don’t actually destroy them like many other MAOIs do. Because of this, the harmala alkaloids are classified as RIMA compounds and not full MAOI compounds.

Tyramine is able to displace harmine, harmaline, and THH, causing them to be freed from the MAO-A enzymes, so that the tyramine is then destroyed by the MAO-A enzymes and rendered inactive. Because tyramine is still rendered inactive under the effects of harmine, harmaline, and THH, there is no need for any dietary restrictions. This is true for all RIMAs. However, complex drug interactions can occur with RIMAs and can be fatal. So while it’s safe to eat pretty much any type of normal food, taking medicinal herbs with RIMAs could be dangerous. And some foods contain drugs that normally are inactivated by MAO-A, but become active while taking a RIMA. For example, a salad made from chacruna leaves would not do anything to you normally, but if a RIMA was taken, the DMT in the leaves would become active. No one knows how many possible food items contain such drugs that might become active under the effects of a RIMA. So far, no normal food items have been shown to contain such drugs so there is no RIMA diet.
 
here is an example...SWIM ate two bowls of pork roast stew stuff...it was soo good...tons of pork..mushrooms..cream of mushroom..all sorts of stuff...anyway...he was pretty drunk too...too drunk...and figured a good way to sober up would be to take some pharma...so he measured out what he thought would be a low dose...60mg harmaline + 40mg THH + 30mg dmt fumarate...drank it down and proceeded to do whatever...

no nausea..nothing..but HOLY SHIT..he doesnt understand why it worked so well..but you should have seen the trails..he tells me..he could throw his trails around his hand..it was amazing..he says this was a very powerful dose..even though he was expecting lower effects..but the point is that the harmalas didnt cause any adverse reactions with the food he ate..
 
I am happily drinking my homemade kefir, which is fermented milk and supposedly has high levels of tyramine while on harmalas.
The only adverse effect I had with food was waking up with a blinding headache twice that was gone completely by midday, both after having a chinese takeaway and the harmalas the night before.
I can't think what could cause this, glutamate (monosodium glutamate is what chinese food is notorius for) is not a monoamine and glutamate poisoning is treated with MAOI As:?
 
Jorkest said:
no nausea..nothing..but HOLY SHIT..he doesnt understand why it worked so well..but you should have seen the trails..he tells me..he could throw his trails around his hand..it was amazing..he says this was a very powerful dose..even though he was expecting lower effects..but the point is that the harmalas didnt cause any adverse reactions with the food he ate..
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Was the dmt part strong? Harmalas can give really noticable trails at higher doses. I use to wave my hands around in a circle, and a blue hands follows :)

Perhaps what you ate/drank potentiated the harmalas?
 
its very possible because he only took 60mg harmaline and 40mg of THH..with 30mg dmt fumarate...he was also quite drunk..well he wasnt after it kicked in..this amount of harmalas hasnt produced that effect for SWIM before...but who knows
 
Has anyone else tried the ascorbic acid thing or have we abandoned it? It's a shame to not see more knowledgable posters giving their opinions on the theory involved.
 
has anyone done simple solubility tests on the thh citrate and thh hcl that we get from our vendor. that mite lead you in the right direction. at least figure out what solvent the thh hcl or citrate is soluble or not soluble in and compare that to harmine and harmala. also, they sell the caapi copy which is the 3 alkaloids supposedly in caapi. someone should mess around with that and see if they can seperate the three.
 
Extracting harmala alkaloids is a lengthy process. All the many saltings, painful filterings, freebasing, etc. It’s a lot of work and for SWIM it’s just not worth the trouble. SWIM did it a few times and it took many days to get to a pure end product. After that he lost interest in extracting harmala alkaloids. There are many 10x and 100x extracts already out there of both rue and caapi, and several vendors already selling the isolated alkaloids. Why bother with it? I don’t much see the point.

It would be nice to know the various solubilities of these alkaloids. Maybe a better faster tech could be invented. I don’t like the current techs out there. It takes way too long to get pure results. It’s not like bufotenine or DMT where you really have no choice if you want them, you’ll need to extract them yourself, but with the harmala alkaloids, you can just buy them already extracted for you. Unless a tech is made that’s less time consuming and easier, I just can’t see the reason for ever extracting harmala alkaloids yourself.

Very little is published about THH. I think this forum actually has more information about THH than any other place on the internet that I’ve seen. That’s not a good sign. Basically, the forum members here are pretty much the only people actively researching THH! That’s kind of odd considering THH is one of the main active alkaloids in B. caapi. You would think that more information would exist on it.

I’ve searched and searched and I can only find about one paragraph worth of information on THH other than what’s on this forum. It seems like no one else is interested in it, not even ayahuasca users. I don’t get it. I would imagine that at least Jonathan Ott would be a little interested, but no, he’s concentrated his work on harmaline, which is hardly even in ayahuasca. I don’t get it.

I’m quite interested in THH, but extraction of it just doesn’t interest me. It’s like trying to extract aspirin. Why bother when you can just buy it? I know some people can’t get it (I think it’s illegal in places like Canada, France, etc.), and for those people a tech is definitely needed.

I would try to approach it from a 100x B. caapi extract. That should be maybe 40% THH. At least part of the work is already done for you. With a 100x caapi extract, it’s a simple matter of figuring out how to separate it from the other alkaloids rather than being a complex extraction procedure that will take all week to perform.
 
Mail order. Ha! Lucky for some.

Where I live it's not illegal to supply this compound. It just for some unknown reason, isn't done. Even if it was, paying $10 a dose doesn't really seem like an option. On top of that there's the joy of the process. I've quite happily worked for 2 weeks with dirty old rue just to achieve something closely resembling purity. By this method £15 can easliy acquire enough rue for 5g's of fairly pure extract which even if I could have items shipped to me would get me probably 400mg's at most.

That's life I guess.

Looks like it's a good old caapi brew while the research continues.
 
It's $10 for 200 mg. SWIM usually uses 20 mg sublingually when smoking bufotenine with it. That's one dose for SWIM. So for $10 he’s getting 10 doses. That’s $1 a dose. That's not bad at all.
 
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