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THH extraction tek

Migrated topic.
I can get 100g's for a little more than said price. This is 2 very strong doses for myself.

I think the part of this post that got most of my attention was the theoretical conversion to thh from rue alkaloids which could potentially get me 15 doses for the same price.

In all honesty money isn't really the issue. I'm just a little confused about how my 1 failed attempt on this conversion seems to have stopped any interest in the theory purposed by Nobuoni. Where one can just simply buy thh, it also eliminates the joy of everything inbetween. The chemistry process is so much more than a means to an end.
 
hey guys it is great to see this thread slowly developing... SWIM has unfortunately been unable to conduct any experiments as he has no space at the moment and has been sidetracked with other functions of life...

it would be good to summarise some of the progress that has been established so far. SWIMs knowledgeable FOAF kemist has indicated that the zinc route is definitely feasible. Although SWIM plans to validate this particular hypothesis soonish, it would be great if anyone could continue to help with the confirmation of the development of this tek. I will try to summarize all of the useful info that has been established so far asap...
 
Nobuoni said:
Hamine/Harmaline conversion to THH with food grade and H2O'


Ascorbic acid (vitamin C) is a water-soluble, antioxidant present in citrus fruits, potatoes, tomatoes and green leafy vegetables.

One important property is its ability to act as a reducing agent (electron donor).
Ascorbic acid is a reducing agent with a hydrogen potential of +O.08V, making it capable of reducing such compounds as a molecular oxygen'

So simply put'
Add you Harmine/Harmaline to a strong solution of ascorbic acid and H2O' and boil gently' until the yellow colour has changed to a clear solution'
Of what happens is the ascorbic acid attracts the oxygen and the production of H2O2 donates a hydrogen'
Hydrogen peroxide H2O2 acts as a reducing agent in acid solutions' and is produced by boiling ascorbic acid in H2O'
This natural production of H2O2 is enough in this reacion to add the H ion to the Harmine mole' after the oxygen has been attracted by the ascorbic acid'
The process slows down in acid solutions' but works faster in alkaline'
The stability of ascorbic acid decreases with increases in temperature and pH.
Click to expand...

I tried this a while back with no noticeable success. I am wondering how this would work if using vinegar and zinc were used.

Am I on the right track or is this method only suitable for n-oxide conversions?
 
damnit - i dont know how i missed this thread - swims sitting with almost a gram of harmala/harmaline from a rue extraction and another 50g rue seeds - swim would love to convert to thh - in that original tek from tihkal tek - is there anything that can simply replace the amalgam - also why is hcl being used - swim remembers reading that hcl should never be used with harmaloids ?
anyone try this tek and have success - if so what exactly did they do - if not - any ideas swim might try - swim cares not for loss of product - the joy of extractions and experimentation is enough to keep swim motivated.
 
quoted from

Erowid Online Books : "Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants, and analogs" by Keeper of the Trout

Ayahuasca: alkaloids, plants & analogs by Keeper of the Trout (full text) title page
www.erowid.org

seems important enough to get mentioned again

Harmaline has also been reduced to THH with Zinc & Hydrochloric acid. See Siddiqui et al. 1983 for the procedure. (This should also work for harmine)Siddiqui et al. 1983 found that addition of NH4Cl prior to basification with Ammonia increased the yield for this reaction from 50% to around 80% (by preventing the precipitation of Zinc hydroxide)
 
I don't know anyone other than myself that tried this.

I refluxed harmaloids in water with ascorbic acid for 5 hours. The end product tasted less bitter and it was active. But as I have never tasted/tried THH before I have nothing to compare it to. But it did seem cleaner than a usual harmala extraction, but it could have been just that and nothing else. A little cleaner.

I'm still trying though.

I need to find out the purpose of the amalgam in that reaction because other than acquiring that, it sounds very simple.
 
Oh yes and the most important observation. No colour change was noted during the whole reaction.

Should have turned clear.

Would like to read that report of See Siddiqui et al. 1983

But if zinc and Hcl were the only reagents it begs to question why anyone would add amalgam also.
 
^^I have looked long and hard for that paper but can't find it. I also don't really see how the reaction would work but my mechanistic organic chemistry is a bit lacking these days.

Anyway its easy to reduce THH with sodium borohydride but I am not going to teach people how to do that unless they know what sodium borohydride is and have experience with organic chemistry. (PM if your have a serious interest).
 
Where's the update on people's efforts regards conversion from harmine and harmaline to THH. Thanks alot, this is awfully iteresting and I know someone can do it!:lol:
 
What would happen if I added 10% food grade hydrogen perioxide to either the syrian rue seeds, or to the manske extracted harmala alkaloids?
 
plumsmooth said:
What would happen if I added 10% food grade hydrogen perioxide to either the syrian rue seeds, or to the manske extracted harmala alkaloids?
Click to expand...
It may oxidise the harmaline to harmine or it may oxidise the alkaloids in a way that totally alters them making them totally inactive (most likely) or insanely potent (unlikely)
 
It would be nice if someone would try the hydrogen peroxide idea. Sounds interesting.

I think most likely it'll just make harmine N-oxide and harmaline N-oxide though. I believe the dye known as "harmala red" is harmaline N-oxide.
 
P.S. Only since this is completely legal where I live, I have Syrian Rue seeds that have sat in almost pure vinegar for 3 years. I can complete this Manske and send the results for a proper bioassay-- or whatever they call it-- to an appropriate member of the community-- to perform that P.K.A thing or whatever-- to run that word-- and thereby at least see if over time-- in a strongly acidic mode-- if three years of natural time-- is enough to generate some-- I want to say-- degradation/reduction-- or better yet-- evolution into THH. Thanks for your consideration...
 
ok so I thought I would resurrect this thread as I have just stumbled upon an interesting development. There is a native Australian plant that may have workable levels.

Acacia complanata, generally known as Long-pod Wattle and Flat-stemmed Wattle, is a perennial tree native to Australia. It can grow 5–6 m tall, but more often it grows as a large shrub. It is not listed as being a threatened species. It is commonly used in environmental management.

The major base is Nb-methyltetrahydroharman, isolable to 0.3%, but there are also trace amounts of tetrahydroharman and N-methyltetrahydroharman.
 
oooookkkkk, this line of research has proved very interesting.

Here is some info about another possible species:

Spathiostemon javensis B1. (synonym : Homonoia javensis (Bl.) Muell. Arg.)
is a New Guinea rain-forest tree of the family Euphorbiaceae. The leaves and bark
of a small tree (herbarium voucher number TGH 10766) gave positive field tests
for alkaloids, and extraction of dried leaves in the laboratory afforded c. 0.2% of crude
alkaloids. Examination by thin-layer chromatography indicated the presence of
only one major constituent, and chromatography on a column of alumina gave a
high yield of N,-methyltetrahydroharman, identical with the alkaloid previously
isolated from Acacia cornp1anata.
Click to expand...
 
errrrm , I only just woke up and misread the info I posted, thanks for pointing that out, lol - definitely two different molecules

please disregard my ramblings
 
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