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THH extraction tek

Migrated topic.
A friend I know is going on a field expedition sometime soon and will definitely get some complanata to work with. I will relay any results to this thread as I think it would be interesting to see what the effects were like
 
this has tickled my memory... 69ron had some helpful info

69ron said:
timeloop said:
"tetrahydroharmine vs tetrahydroharman" :?:

can someone please explain to me the difference between the 2?

would tetrahydroharman have similar effects?
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Probably not. Harmaline is chemically closer in structure to THH than tetrahydroharman is. And harmaline’s effects are very different from THH.

Look here:

THH
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Harmaline
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Tetrahydroharman
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Harmine
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my elf friend is still going to try some THHarman and report the effects... even though the molecule looks somewhat unique in comparison I think that it is similar enough to be worth investigating further
 
Finally took the time to test some THH to find out what pH it starts precipitating.

I added THH HCL to water. I then added diluted ammonia drop by drop. THH started precipitating out at pH around 6.9. It stayed stable at 6.9 even though more drops were added and THH continued to precipitate. In the end the pH started increasing again.
 
endlessness said:
awesome! did you retrieve it after precipitating? how, through filtering? was there any loss? how did it look like as a freebase, was it crystaline/solid ?
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No, I did not retrieve it. I just tested some of Flowingvisions THH HCL. It looked pretty much like regular harmala precipitates.

It looks like it will precipitate out before harmine and harmaline, which should make it possible to separate from the other harmalas.
 
Dagger said:
endlessness said:
awesome! did you retrieve it after precipitating? how, through filtering? was there any loss? how did it look like as a freebase, was it crystaline/solid ?
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No, I did not retrieve it. I just tested some of Flowingvisions THH HCL. It looked pretty much like regular harmala precipitates.

It looks like it will precipitate out before harmine and harmaline, which should make it possible to separate from the other harmalas.
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Dagger, this is indeed amazing!

did you also notice other things, like colour changes? What was the colour of thh-cl when dissolved in water? did it dissolve in water (normally pH ~7) easily or you had to use some acid to aid the dissolution (mind you that THH-cl is slightly acidic by its nature)? Also, did the solution change colour after basification? What was the maximum pH at which THH kept on crashing?
 
Infundibulum said:
did you also notice other things, like colour changes? What was the colour of thh-cl when dissolved in water?
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I didn't really pay much attention to it. Was a relatively small sample of THH I used, 5-10 mg. Perhaps I should make another sample just to see.

did it dissolve in water (normally pH ~7) easily or you had to use some acid to aid the dissolution (mind you that THH-cl is slightly acidic by its nature)?
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It dissolved relatively easily in regular water. Just checked the pH from the faucet. It was 6.55. Everything dissolved as far as I could see.

Also, did the solution change colour after basification?
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Noticed no colour change, but as said, didn't really pay much attention to it.

What was the maximum pH at which THH kept on crashing?
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At first it stayed stable at 6.9. Then it went up to 7.10. I waited half an hour, then checked pH again. It again had gone down to 6.9. I tried adding a strong ammonia solution to the solution after the precipitate had fallen to the bottom. I noticed no further precipitation. Although I am sure it could come out slowly. But certainly didn't give any noticable precipitation.
 
Crystalito said:
Hmmm could you run a small Manske on THH to see if THH HCl precipitates with this method? It would be rather interesting.
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I tried it, although by mistake I added some vinegar solution to the THH HCL to dissolve it. Old habit :)
After it had all dissolved, I added it to a saturated salt solution. Instantly, whitish precipitate started forming. So, yes, it does seem to work with THH.

Another point to make, after dissolving the THH HCL in a very small amount of water/vinegar, I could see no colour change as with harmine and harmaline. It is most likely a colourless liquid.
 
Ok This is the answer I was looking for but I guess I was searching the wrong thread. I guess this means THH will not get left behind during a Manske? No THH left behind...
 
So has the FV issue killed this thread? I would very much like to learn more on THH and ways to reduce to it. I am definitely in agreement with others on the cloudiness of harmaline, and would really like to know how to convert it. If I had the funds I would definitely contribute to searching this out, but I don't have the equipment, or the funds to acquire equipment, at the moment.

From what I have read here and on this post, the citric acid and water is a questionable tek. We should definitely get a solid determination on that.

Second, has SWIM attempted the hydrochloric acid and zinc, has SWIM had any success?

What are the other options?

Is it correct that reduction is only possible or simplest with harmaline, because of the structure of the molecule?
 
Notes #

1. Procedure: (Example) 10 grams of harmaline dissolved in 10% aqueous hydrochloric acid had zinc dust added gradually (with occasional shaking). The mixture was heated on a water bath until the yellow coloration disappeared. After filtering off any unreacted zinc, ammonium chloride was added to prevent precipitation of zinc hydroxide. Addition of ammonia caused an immediate precipitation of white material. This was shaken into Ethyl acetate; which recovered THH. (See Siddiqui et al. 1983 for their version of this procedure.) (This should also work for harmine) Siddiqui et al. 1983 reported that the addition of NH4Cl prior to basification with Ammonia increased the yield for this reaction from 50% to around 80% (by preventing the precipitation of Zinc hydroxide).
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has this procedure been attempted by anyone? worth noting...
 
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