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transdermal DMT using microneedle patch...

1Starway7

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New collaboration to develop DMT transdermal patch

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Psychedelic Health
https://psychedelichealth.co.uk › 2023/02/23 › new-coll...




Feb 23, 2023 — PharmaDrug Inc. has entered into a research collaboration agreement with PharmaTher Holdings Ltd. to evaluate the delivery of DMT using ...
and read..

Because... this company... above... may be having success...
This is giving me ideas! On how to safley use DMT transdermally ...even at micro or small dose ....


Microneedles in Smart Drug Delivery - PMC



If this idea works ? ..this will be a first in the use of DMT transdermally [by the public]...ever!... using... a small....micro dot.. Micro Needle ..patch on skin!.... :alien:

Ideas coming !
 

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PharmaDrug Collaborates with PharmaTher for ...​

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BioSpace
https://www.biospace.com › article › pharmadrug-colla...




Feb 22, 2023 — ("PharmaTher") to evaluate the delivery of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) using PharmaTher's novel microneedle patch (MN-Patch) delivery ...


New collaboration to develop DMT transdermal patch​

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Psychedelic Health
https://psychedelichealth.co.uk › 2023/02/23 › new-coll...




Feb 23, 2023 — ... collaboration agreement with PharmaTher Holdings Ltd. to evaluate the delivery of DMT using PharmaTher's novel microneedle patch (MN-Patch).

Missing: skin ‎| Show results with: skin

A Porous Reservoir-Backed Boronate Gel Microneedle for ...​

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National Institutes of Health (NIH) (.gov)
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov › articles › PMC8871697




by S Chen · 2022 · Cited by 21 — Herein, we report a polyvinyl alcohol(PVA)-coated MNs patch with an interconnected porous gel drug reservoir for enhanced skin penetration ...


Development Of DMT Transdermal Patch With Eye ...​

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Benzinga
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Feb 22, 2023 — PharmaDrug has said that the DMT microneedle patch may enable flexible drug load capacity and combinations, controlled release delivery and ...


PharmaDrug Collaborates with PharmaTher for Development of ...​

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("PharmaTher") to evaluate the delivery of N,N-Dimethyltryptamine (DMT) using PharmaTher's novel microneedle patch (MN-Patch) delivery technology. Daniel ...


PharmaTher Announces Positive Research Results for ...​

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BioSpace
https://www.biospace.com › article › releases › pharmat...




Jul 18, 2023 — ... PharmaPatch™, a proprietary microneedle patch, in delivering N,N-dimethyltryptamine (“DMT”). The research study was conducted with Terasaki ...


PharmaTher Holdings finishes testing microneedle DMT ...​

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Mugglehead Magazine
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Jul 19, 2023 — The GelMA-based microneedle patch can penetrate the stratum corneum layer (the skin's outer layer), allowing for varied drug loading ...


PharmaTher Announces Positive Research Results for ...​

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Jul 18, 2023 — ... PharmaPatch™, a proprietary microneedle patch, in delivering N,N-dimethyltryptamine (“DMT”). The research study was conducted with Terasaki ...


PharmaTher's DMT Patch Shows Positive Outcomes ...​

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Benzinga
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Jul 18, 2023 — PharmaTher completed research studies demonstrating that its microneedle patch can deliver other psychedelics including psilocybin, MDMA and LSD ...


Development Of DMT Transdermal Patch With Eye ...​

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Moomoo
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Feb 22, 2023 — (OTC:pHRRF) to evaluate the delivery of DMT through PharmaTher's microneedle patch technology. PharmaDrug has said that the DMT microneedle ...







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e on DMT Patch...
 
Huh - this sounds interesting. So it'd operate just like a patch? If it works, this sounds like the easiest and least harmful way to administer it yet. No more choking down burnt smoke half the time.

I wonder why they're developing this? Are they banking on it becoming commercially available? This is both exciting and weird.


Edit: I also find it strange that they emphasize the microdosing potential of its intermittent release. Seems like LSD or psilocybin would be more conducive to that considering DMT lasts such a short amount of time
 
Huh - this sounds interesting. So it'd operate just like a patch? If it works, this sounds like the easiest and least harmful way to administer it yet. No more choking down burnt smoke half the time.

I wonder why they're developing this? Are they banking on it becoming commercially available? This is both exciting and weird.


Edit: I also find it strange that they emphasize the microdosing potential of its intermittent release. Seems like LSD or psilocybin would be more conducive to that considering DMT lasts such a short amount of time
Yes it would be a small ....micro dot skin patch.... with hundreds of extreemly tiny needle or spikes to deliver the actives...it would barley make your skin a little red for short time...
Also micro needle patches are supposed to be very safe... not reaching very deep into the skin /] .....[preventing!!!].... any unsafe bacterial intrusion into the blood stream...
Ive read that the risk of any... [bacterial infection]..is higher.. when you get a shot in arm.. [with a hypodermic needle] .... than it is with micro needle patches... so this makes patches pretty safe...

And..Since.. clean dmt... needs to enter reasonably fast into the blood stream...the use of hollow needles... so tiny!!.... you can bareley see them.......[with small patch resivour]...might work best...

Not shure yet...what type of patch this big company is using?.../there are several patch types... It would be important!... to use only the safest proven micro needle patch.... :unsure:

its always been that ordinary transdermal application skin patches ....[without needles].... depends on molecule size to get through the skin barrier...
but micro needle patches helps the actives get through the outer skin layer...

Quite an idea!(y)
 

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Example...easy to get ... many different types of micro needle patches can be had over the counter...

This is one example micro needle patch...used for facial blemishes...

A possibile method would be to desolve your dmt as a tincher in high proof grain alcohol....

Storing the molecule this way in a darkend glass dropper bottle is very handy!... and the molecule has been proven to stay active!... even after more than a year being stored this way....

storage in refrigerator may be best //but room temperature usually will work....

..the dropper bottle used... is labled an over the counter natural tincher...(y)

This idea hasent been tested yet but...... it may be posible to simply dropper a few test drops of the liquid molecule onto the micro needle patch// then alow all the alcohol to evaporate leaving the molecule embeded in the patch...

For saftey concerns.......the patch is sterolized ....and the molecule should be sterolized also!.... because it has been stored in 96 proof alcohol...

The micro needle patch wont puncture the skin very deeply.... [so maybe using a spot where skin is thinner?? for faster absorbtion might e better?

But be carefull!... this is just an idea ..... that needs to be thought through many times over...because saftey is first concern...

There are several different types of skin patches.... and for the molecule .... the patch type that releases the actives fastest is needed for it to work right...

If i just knew the patch type?... and delivery method ?.... that the large company .....[[[ PharmaDrug Inc.]]]...... talked about in post above.... is using for their sucess ..it might help a lot!

There are patches that use self desolving needles that deliver the actives.........also hollow needle patches that use a resevour that contains the drug...also [patches that have coated needles//....Which one is best suited and safest to deliver the molecule ...?is the question...:unsure:

Included are photos of easy to get adhesive Micro Needle patches over the counter....[magnafy pictures]... this one is used for skin blemishes....

anyone who sucessfully gets this idea to work with NN DMT...will be a long remembered pioneer ...and this method might be safer than smoking and vaping...!
My guess is that 5meo may even be easier to use this way...



taken from their site...below.. the patch type they use

their patch delivery technology...... is based on novel biocompatible and biodegradable gelatin methacryloyl ("GelMA") material to deliver water-soluble and insoluble drugs with desirable release profiles safely. The GelMA-based microneedle patch can efficiently penetrate the stratum corneum layer (outer and enable flexible drug load capacity and combinations and controled release delivery....


so they use a ....The GelMA-based microneedle patch.....:unsure:
How does a microneedle patch work?


Microneedle patch bypasses the stratum corneum barrier and delivers the drug directly into the epidermis or upper dermis layer which delivers 100% of the loaded drug without pain [5].
 

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Funnily enough when I heard they were making it I too had the idea and tried to design it and get in contact with people.

Because psychedelics are showing to be so incredibly efficacious and powerful, its very likely within the next 5 years it will all be legalized in the USA and other countries. Now, all this is not going on without FDA, NIH, and all the right safety precautions. So, there is a race in getting patents and research papers done for drug delivery systems, neuropsychopharmacology, cognition, analogs, and methods regarding DMT and psilocybin before it DOES become legal and society explodes. It's truly an exciting time for psychedelics and a time that will certainly redefine humanity's evolution into whatever we are about to get into these next few decades!

Now, this is the real kick in getting it made, which some of you might get antsy about but try to understand. You see, when you want to come out and say "hey, I want to get funded to try to get DMT/psilocybin on market or out there", you typically need to go through the NIH or FDA or an investment bank like FocalPoint and *pitch* the drug to fulfill a clinical need. That way you can have a plan and draft scientific studies and get generate and prove hypotheses--get some data that demonstrates results by solving a problem (PTSD, depression, Parkinson's, ect.) assuming you want to do a human study. Assume best possible results and we discover that short-15 minute DMT sessions are not good enough and long psilocybin sessions are too long for clinical therapy (which is where its going to be initially upon legalization). We are engineering the patch so that you can customize and readily adapt the trip's length, thereapuetic window (concentration of drug in blood plasma), terminate at will, and make an easy/safe time for the users/clincians. Product is good enough already and for people who want this device (which so far requires sophisticated equipment to manufacture none of us will get our hands on, because you can't 3D-print since its too high-resolution), you got to pay your dues to the patent holders. ALSO, you want this patch to deal with the big monster in the way: insurance companies. That's right. A real customer of this patch is insurance companies and, y'know, those guys that make the USA healthcare system insanely expensive. Why? Because in psychiatry and psychology, sessions are "paid by the hour"! So if you can make a system where you can engineer the ideal trip that someone can do within an hour (so that they can get up and get out that office, but can't drive), with a series of sessions going through the weeks and months, you then satisfy the insurance companies who will proudly support your DMT patch. Note, I am sort of antagonizing them, but I do want to be fair... when we deal with trying to get people real, quality, therapy safely and robustly, there's a lot of work, people, and responsibilities. This ain't easy for anyone, and we can be thankful we have people who work their asses off to try to get things done. Yeah, some assholes cause a lot of shit, but if we believe we can make things better, perhaps with a patch and drug of somekind, we can get things right.

As for your idea 1Starway7, I don't know if that would work, but if you really want to learn the basics I recommend Nestler, Eric J. - Molecular neuropharmacology _ a foundation for clinical neuroscience-McGraw-Hill Medical (2015)

When I made my first draft of my patch, I choose hollow silicone because it's ideal for large doses/delivers fast and silicone is hydrophobic so it can help saline-DMT slow down diffusion rate to "drip"--gives us a rough draft of an ideal profile. Then to make sure its right, you got to make a model of your mathematical model of differential equations.

I mean, its not a great resolution but you could say some shit like the infusion of DMT through a patch assuming thin slab geometry and Stokes Einstein...

dCin/dt = d/dx * [ release_rate_of_patch * ( (Boltzmann's_constant * Temperature) / (6 * pi * viscocity_of_DMT_through_dermis * radius_of_DMT_molecule) ) * dC/Dx ]

and then calculate the degradation of DMT in the body and then your task becomes something like, now that I know the degradation and parts of the infusion, what do I engineer or refine to get the release_rate_of_patch to be the right number so that I can reach and maintain a blood plasma DMT level of 60ng/mL for 6 hours!

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LINK to figure: Good, M., et al., “Pharmacokinetics of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in Humans,” European Journal of Drug Metabolism and
Pharmacokinetics, vol. 48, pp. 311-327, 2023, Pharmacokinetics of N,N-dimethyltryptamine in Humans - European Journal of Drug Metabolism and Pharmacokinetics
 
Funnily enough when I heard they were making it I too had the idea and tried to design it and get in contact with people.
This is really well timed, I've been reading quite a few press releases and papers in preparation for an interview with Pharmadrug, specifically about the patch and their plans with DMT. I'm curious, when you mention trying to get in contact with people, did you ever speak to anyone involved in this specific project (PharmaDrug, PharmaTher, etc)? If you did, I'd be very interested to hear what they had to say.

As for the usage, it seems to me that Pharmadrug plans on using this to treat glaucoma?? They talk often about their intention to find non-psychological uses in medicine for DMT - they've brought up organ transplants and glaucoma treatment using sub-psychoactive doses of DMT, which I'm very curious to ask why they chose to pursue and how promising these results actually are. So I'm not entirely sure if they have any therapeutic intentions with DMT, at least at the moment, although they've seemed to begin migrating towards that idea in the past two years.

I don't want to speak on my view of the company, but what I will say is that listening to the representatives speak on this can get very annoying very quickly for a number of reasons, none of which really explain much about the efficacy of the patch or how successful their supposed functions are. If you were able to get any information I'd love to hear what they've said, I'm fascinated with where this is going to go.
 
when you mention trying to get in contact with people, did you ever speak to anyone involved in this specific project (PharmaDrug, PharmaTher, etc)
Found the paper for GelMA MN: Luo, Z., Sun, W., Fang, J., Lee, K., Li, S., Gu, Z., Dokmeci, M.R., Khademhosseini, A., 2019. Biodegradable Gelatin Methacryloyl Microneedles for Transdermal Drug Delivery. Advanced Healthcare Materials 8, 1801054.. https://doi.org/10.1002/adhm.201801054

From what I tried to look into, it looks like they are trying to work with people from the Terasaki Institute, a private biomedical lab near UCLA (guess where GelMA was made?).

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It's a great material, I suppose it could definitely work for the patch. Seems very good; the speed at which it degrades and releases is based on the UV-crosslink density. When we talk about polymeric microparticles and drug release systems, know that the methods to create more UV crosslinks in gelatin are responsible for slowing the diffusion rate of drugs and the degradation of the hydrogel. So when you put the needles into the skin, they first begin to swell in the tissue environment, that swelling causes some drug to be released, then the biocompatible material degrades and releases both the debris and its drug into the dermis to be captured by the circulatory system. My first concern is whether they can store enough DMT and create that drug-release profile we want how robust that is. Patches could potentially....

Wait. I think I just had an idea of a different method.

Anyway, as for the patches and people, a lot of this seems to be undercover, but you could probably follow the crumb trail of the researchers in the paper and find ways to call them up, which I might sometime try. Labs and whatnot are not generally supposed to share exact stuff on their on-going research because you don't want assholes messing or stealing your stuff (which unfortunately can happen).
 
Hi,

One can make a solution of DMT in DMSO which will be transdermal
Was that regular DMT? or DMT-Fumarate...?
Thank you so much! This is so cool. I have never heard of DMSO or such compounds but it makes sense. It sounds like you really study pharmokinetics 😄

It seems though like you get rashes and swelling from the microneedle piercing method though no? I wouldn't want residual red patches all over me if that were the case... xD

On a different note I would personally really love to try Nebulized DMT-Fumarate.
 
Was that regular DMT? or DMT-Fumarate...?
The DMT used in the patch is freebase. They dissolve it in ethyl acetate or ethanol first though

My first concern is whether they can store enough DMT and create that drug-release profile we want how robust that is.
My understanding is that a single patch, as described in the paper, isn't able to achieve a substantially psychedelic dose. I'm not sure if it's because of the technical limitations or if it's Psilera's (the company behind the patch)'s intentions. They're pursuing therapeutic potential of psychedelics in sub-psychedelic doses, so it could be that the patch was created with that specifically in mind.

Still trying to figure out the connection between Psilera and PharmaDrug.. Pharmadrug CEO has been unresponsive, my current understanding is that Psilera developed the patch and PharmaDrug continued to assess it's delivery method with plans of using it to treat oculatory diseases.. and then I just looked into Terasaki. I'm lost now, lol. Hoping I can get some success with Psilera and a few of the researchers.

On a different note I would personally really love to try Nebulized DMT-Fumarate.
I've never even thought or heard of this idea!! Has anybody ever actually done it?
 
The DMT used in the patch is freebase. They dissolve it in ethyl acetate or ethanol first though


My understanding is that a single patch, as described in the paper, isn't able to achieve a substantially psychedelic dose. I'm not sure if it's because of the technical limitations or if it's Psilera's (the company behind the patch)'s intentions. They're pursuing therapeutic potential of psychedelics in sub-psychedelic doses, so it could be that the patch was created with that specifically in mind.

Still trying to figure out the connection between Psilera and PharmaDrug.. Pharmadrug CEO has been unresponsive, my current understanding is that Psilera developed the patch and PharmaDrug continued to assess it's delivery method with plans of using it to treat oculatory diseases.. and then I just looked into Terasaki. I'm lost now, lol. Hoping I can get some success with Psilera and a few of the researchers.


I've never even thought or heard of this idea!! Has anybody ever actually done it?
I have never heard of it so far, despite nebulization being common in medical practice at least.
It's definitely more technologically involved that just smoking something though, perhaps that's why. Idk. I would like to try.
I would love to see nebulizer anything ~ psilocybin, MAOI, DMT-fumarate, Change, amphetamines...
It would take a good artist I guess ❤️

That and suppository formulas of things like ayahuasca, psilohuasca, mushrooms, etc or any mixture/combination since it avoids the oral route nausea, first pass metabolism, and has even faster onset.
 
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I have never heard of it so far, despite nebulization being common in medical practice at least.
It's definitely more technologically involved that just smoking something though, perhaps that's why. Idk. I would like to try.
I would love to see nebulizer anything ~ psilocybin, MAOI, DMT-fumarate, Change, amphetamines...
It would take a good artist I guess ❤️

That and suppository formulas of things like ayahuasca, psilohuasca, mushrooms, etc or any mixture/combination since it avoids the oral route nausea, first pass metabolism, and has even faster onset.

not trying to change the subject but...I believe the size of the DMT freebase molecule.... is a little too large ... to penetrate the skin layers for for fast effective ...transdermal ...aplication..

But..transdermal method may work if applyed to areas of body that have ....the thinnist skin].... with lots of blood vessels near by..possibly arm pits...tops of feet...temples...backs of hands ....lips... .....But...to get transdermal to work with DMT would be a miricle!!

But...Micro needle method ... appears very posible though...
 
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Usually the absorption through the skin is very slow, I recently brushed my mouth with dmt fumarate to get sublingual effects and this works to some degree and produces clear effects. Jet it is clearly not fast enough to produce a significant trip. I would guess that this would also be the case for the transdermal patch, it’s more suitable for a slow release.

Even subcutaneous injections are usually used for slow absorption of drugs, let alone intradermal, the quick test would be to tattoo yourself with a dmt solution (horrible idea) aside from the obvious infection risk it would allow one to get the dmt in the skin.
 
This is all very fascinating.
I was listening to part of the DMT-X group discuss the possibility of transdermal patches.
Looking forward to see where this all goes.
 
Tests in the past with DMT+DSMO over large parts of the body resulted in zero effects.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

Hi Traveler,

Do you know more about buccal or sublingual methods for DMT fumerate? I am trying to learn more to see if this is a viable method or if others have tried something like this before and in combination with maybe other substances besides MAOis. Like, is it possible to get a good trip from just sticking a paste of DMT fumerate like snuff? Do you know or could direct me to info regarding the sophisticated chem and pharmacokinetics of DMT fumerate itself? I am a relatively new scientist here and most of your responses through the forum seem very helpful, so I appreciate your response.
Usually the absorption through the skin is very slow, I recently brushed my mouth with dmt fumarate to get sublingual effects and this works to some degree and produces clear effects. Jet it is clearly not fast enough to produce a significant trip. I would guess that this would also be the case for the transdermal patch, it’s more suitable for a slow release.

Even subcutaneous injections are usually used for slow absorption of drugs, let alone intradermal, the quick test would be to tattoo yourself with a dmt solution (horrible idea) aside from the obvious infection risk it would allow one to get the dmt in the skin.
Varallox, How much did you use for sublingual and was it quite pure? Where specifically did you apply the dmt fumerate, by sublingual you do mean under the tongue specifically, yes? Can you tell me more about what your experience was like on a scale of 1-10 and do you think you can get a more intense experience the same way? I'd really appreciate it if you could tell me more so I could understand if its possible to have a full-blown experience this way. Do you know others who tried it?

Thanks, wormwood
 
This was very clean dmt fumarate, it wasn’t a very serious experiment just a funny thought put into practice. The amount used was roughly 60 mg (I use a tiny spoon and don’t measure it so could be 50 or 70 is guess) and was brushed on al the soft tissue in my mouth for a couple of minutes and then waited for 10 more minutes before I swallowed the very bitter saliva. I’m not so sure about a scale. Like I said it was noticeable but very weak, just felt like being a bit high with no visuals. I don’t think this is a suitable way to consume dmt and don’t think the amount matters all that much. More could be used but the limitation is the lining in your mouth.

Maybe try a bit yourself, t fun to experiment and more data makes things interesting.
 
This was very clean dmt fumarate, it wasn’t a very serious experiment just a funny thought put into practice. The amount used was roughly 60 mg (I use a tiny spoon and don’t measure it so could be 50 or 70 is guess) and was brushed on al the soft tissue in my mouth for a couple of minutes and then waited for 10 more minutes before I swallowed the very bitter saliva. I’m not so sure about a scale. Like I said it was noticeable but very weak, just felt like being a bit high with no visuals. I don’t think this is a suitable way to consume dmt and don’t think the amount matters all that much. More could be used but the limitation is the lining in your mouth.

Maybe try a bit yourself, t fun to experiment and more data makes things interesting.
If some DMT got through...
There may have been some nice visuals ....had you been in a darkened room.... [with eyes closed ].. and music playing!:alien:

Being in darkened room also works with oral.... salvia divinorum....for visuals..

Ive found DMT in lower doses.. can do the same thing as higher doses...only you can experiance easier.. it with eyes closed ... in a farther away galaxy...in your mind...
Ive noticed this vaping.... mini to micro doses.... of the molecule...the same thing happens ..but it appears farther away...instead of you being totally emersed in a super heavy trip...

the molecule can work in lower doses...only it takes more concintration...with eyes closed to visualize it....!:sneaky:
 
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