Trip Sitter Training? - and the essential nature of DMT.

[Fr33bird]

Howdy Nexus!

This shall be my official first post. I am very grateful to have found such a wonderful community of like-minded people. Let us grow together! :thumb_up:

Nexus! I am in need of some advice. For nearly 12 years now I have been an avid explorer of the mind and consciousness. (ever since my first mind-blowing experiences with Cannabis, and then MDMA ). It has been a mission of mine to open all senses to the immense varieties of experience this universe has to offer.

In terms of drug exploration, one could say I have been around the block and back. As I am getting older, (just turned 25, maybe its too soon to say such a thing? :?: ) I am transitioning towards a more simple and responsible lifestyle. I feel a strong social responsibility and I want to do my part to further the enlightenment of the human race, to give back to the community and the people of earth, and to spread the light (responsibly, of course ). So I am moving to China to learn more about my roots and to further expand my experience of life.

Thanks for listening, now onto the topic at hand.

My Girlfriend and I have been together for a little over a year now. She is the one I love and I want to be with her forever. She is intelligent and kind and compassionate and thoughtful towards others. We love each other very much.

She is a traditional Chinese girl, raised in a traditional style Chinese family in China. In China, drug exploration is looked down upon quite a bit (I don't know this for sure, but it's what I hear :?). She has never used any drugs, and had never even been drunk until recently (Haha... good times. :d). However, She finds my experiences with various psychedelics (and other drugs) fascinating, and has no problem with me continuing my work. I should also mention she is one of the smartest people I have ever met (I think that's important to mention because well educated people tend to be more open minded, understanding, and supportive. Which she absolutely is.)

My experience with DMT is very limited, and my plan is to continue my experiments with this powerful plant spirit until a well formed relationship is achieved - understanding attained... in China.

The method I choose is Aya, for various reasons.

I wont be able to make my first brew for probably another year (the time it will take to get settled into my new lifestyle, and acquire the necessary time and materials), but already I am beginning my mental, physical, and spiritual preparations.

How does one train a person to be a good trip sitter, who has never had any experience with drugs, or consciousness exploration? I want to be very low key about my operations, so instead of searching for "experienced" psychonauts with which to trip-sit me, I would rather my love be properly trained to handle any situation that we may encounter.

What challenges might a trip sitter encounter while one is "Vision Questing"? (as I like to call it)

How can I properly explain to her the psychology of the effects that she will be witnessing in me?

I am afraid I will become anxious around her, spiral into a negative trip, and freak her out by being overly anxious about freaking her out. (This happened with an EX gf, and a large dose of Amanita Muscaria. She too, had no experience with psychedelics, and I realized it was a huge mistake on my part for not preparing her as a trip-sitter [even though I'm not sure how!]). Has anyone ever had an experience like this?

I have many more questions I'm sure. Thanks in advance Nexus! 8)

 

[Philosopher]

I have tripped around my gf too. As long as she knows the drug can't hurt you she won't be scared, so you won't be scared. Once I took lsd and on the come up I got nauseous. She didn't know I took it because she hates all drugs, and we were only gonna hang out for a little while. Well I said my stomach hurts and she freaks out, are you sick!? Are you gonna throw up!? Am I gonna get sick now. Should I go home. I start getting very scared, like I have a deathly illness. I also feel the lsd has poisoned me, but I couldn't tell her or she would freak out a lot more so I said, I smoked weed and now I have anxiety, sorry. She said. Good. Now I know you aren't sick. It's ok just lay down with me. Your just having your anxiety thing your gonna be ok. Weed doesn't make people get sick. And I felt better.

Moral of the story. As long as you can be open with her and she is informed the drug can't harm you then she will be a great person to trip with. You may even cry just from seeing her face, she is love.

 

[Vodsel]

Hey Fr33bird,

before anything, welcome to the Nexus

Sharing experiences with your loved one is a wonderful thing, and even the difficult journeys bring plenty of chances, during the session and afterwards, to communicate, understand and see through the other's eyes. Personally I think the best and foremost preparation to be a sitter is knowing the substance yourself, that means having had a few meaningful experiences with it. Empathy is easier when you have worn those shoes as well.

But if for several circumstances this is not feasible, and there is a solid base of trust, care and openness, there is no reason why she cannot prepare for sitting you... but she should do her homework, the more the better.

First, she needs to know you well. Your experience so far with psychedelics (including any difficult episodes), your health history and any potential needs you might have, and the reasons for your trip. It's important that she knows and understands what takes you there and why. Any concerns, insecurities and potential conflicts should be addressed early and patiently. It's important that both you and her feel confident and secure with each other, and some warm up sessions with low dosages might be helpful to dispel doubts and fears she might have. In the session, you should have no concerns about her and her reactions - you have to focus on yourself.

Then, she needs to know the substance as good as possible. If she won't try it personally, there's quite a lot of reading and talking to do. Understanding the headspace of someone in an ayahuasca trip can be difficult for someone who has barely any experience with psychoactive substances, and that will require a few conceptual leaps on her side. It's not only about keeping calm, sober and patient, and about taking good care of the setting, and about being prepared for any eventualities; it's about doing her best to understand what you might be feeling, and where you are.

For starters, I would get her a few good books on topic. For sitters, with or without experience, I'd recommend "The Psychedelic Explorer's Guide" by James Fadiman. Also, good books about ayahuasca like Peter Gorman's "Ayahuasca in my blood" or Stephen Beyer's "Singing to the Plants" might be great reads. Fadiman's can be a good start, and then work her way from there spending as much time as she needs to discuss topics, ask questions and explore.

Allow her to take her time and to learn, don't rush it. She might decide to see for herself eventually, and that would be the best preparation she might need.

 

[Fr33bird]

Very helpful Vodsel, thank you for the references. Keep it coming Nexus!

 

[spinCycle]

She should be aware that a sitter is there in case things get uncomfortable, but that they mainly need to be out of the way for the majority of the trip unless you yourself want to involve her and interact. If she becomes overly concerned or involved with questioning your state of mind, etc that could color the trip in ways it might not go otherwise. A minimalist approach is best, unless help is needed.

 

[Fr33bird]

She should be aware that a sitter is there in case things get uncomfortable, but that they mainly need to be out of the way for the majority of the trip unless you yourself want to involve her and interact. If she becomes overly concerned or involved with questioning your state of mind, etc that could color the trip in ways it might not go otherwise. A minimalist approach is best, unless help is needed.

I really like this minimalist approach idea. She could be doing her own thing in another room, while I am taking my journey in my special space. And only when I need help will I call upon her. Thanks!

 

[Global]

I don't mean to be alarming or anything of that nature, but at this point in my life, I think I would recommend against reading "Ayahuasca in my Blood" and I'll tell you why. I personally loved the book when I read it. It's well-written and a legitimately fun read. Having said that, in retrospect I kinda wish I hadn't read it. I had a much easier time dealing with all ranges of negative experiences without letting them affect my psyche in the slightest, but then after all that reading of brujeria in the book, it's hard to look at those dark entities the same, and for the first time I began to become fearful during my experiences. Of course everyone's different. Maybe the book will do wonders for you. Who knows? But I thought I would let you in on my experience. I'll be honest. I've done a lot of learning from my psychedelic reading that I consider to be invaluable, but there's a part of me that wishes that I would have just journeyed without all the reading. As I sit here and write this, I realize that the book is for your sitter and not you, so perhaps this whole cautionary disclaimer is unwarranted in this thread, but I'll leave my thoughts here for others' consideration.

 

[Fr33bird]

I don't mean to be alarming or anything of that nature, but at this point in my life, I think I would recommend against reading "Ayahuasca in my Blood" and I'll tell you why. I personally loved the book when I read it. It's well-written and a legitimately fun read. Having said that, in retrospect I kinda wish I hadn't read it. I had a much easier time dealing with all ranges of negative experiences without letting them affect my psyche in the slightest, but then after all that reading of brujeria in the book, it's hard to look at those dark entities the same, and for the first time I began to become fearful during my experiences. Of course everyone's different. Maybe the book will do wonders for you. Who knows? But I thought I would let you in on my experience. I'll be honest. I've done a lot of learning from my psychedelic reading that I consider to be invaluable, but there's a part of me that wishes that I would have just journeyed without all the reading. As I sit here and write this, I realize that the book is for your sitter and not you, so perhaps this whole cautionary disclaimer is unwarranted in this thread, but I'll leave my thoughts here for others' consideration.

"That it is all very serious is the name of the silly negative game" - Dion Fortune, Psychic Self Defense.

 

[Vodsel]

Actually Global has a point there. Gorman's book is a good read once you're acquainted with ayahuasca, if you have a fair balanced mind and you made it up regarding some matters. Whether it might be a worthy read for your gf or not should be your call.

With books like this, or DeKorne's, there's a motto I like to keep in mind. I'm unable to quote it literally since I found it in a translation, but I'll try - not to derail the thread at all.

"Don't belittle the gods. Their non-existence in material terms doesn't make them less powerful or less terrible." - Alan Moore, "From Hell"

 

[DeDao]

Hmm.. I don't think it can be learned, just like that. I think one can improve on their ability to make the situation safe for the explorer.

For instance having a doctor that won't call the police if you live in an area in which psychedelics are not an accepted part of culture.

I think the main thing is being open if the person needs you. Whether that be to just take them to the bathroom, get them a drink, get a piece of fruit for them. I would NOT, however, try to guide them.. Let their heart guide them. It's their journey.

I think another important factor with the sitter is that there needs to be a relationship of some sort, in my opinion, between the tripper and sitter. This make it easier for communication and understanding.

Lastly, I am sure I missed some important ones, is that the sitter needs to be more experienced or have experienced the psychedelic experience many times. This way, they can understand and connect with the place that this person is in.

I think the sitters true purpose is to make the area feel safe and comfortable. If you can do that, then you have achieved the ability to be a sitter.

Good luck and be safe.

 

[Fr33bird]

I don't mean to be alarming or anything of that nature, but at this point in my life, I think I would recommend against reading "Ayahuasca in my Blood" and I'll tell you why. I personally loved the book when I read it. It's well-written and a legitimately fun read. Having said that, in retrospect I kinda wish I hadn't read it. I had a much easier time dealing with all ranges of negative experiences without letting them affect my psyche in the slightest, but then after all that reading of brujeria in the book, it's hard to look at those dark entities the same, and for the first time I began to become fearful during my experiences. Of course everyone's different. Maybe the book will do wonders for you. Who knows? But I thought I would let you in on my experience. I'll be honest. I've done a lot of learning from my psychedelic reading that I consider to be invaluable, but there's a part of me that wishes that I would have just journeyed without all the reading. As I sit here and write this, I realize that the book is for your sitter and not you, so perhaps this whole cautionary disclaimer is unwarranted in this thread, but I'll leave my thoughts here for others' consideration.

"That it is all very serious is the name of the silly negative game" - Dion Fortune, Psychic Self Defense.

Forgive me for such a curt reply. Dark Entities should indeed be treated very seriously and indeed the gods are not forces to be fucked with. However, I believe that we are assuming ourselves to be weak puppets if we don't think we have the tools to defend ourselves against such forces (are we?). There are benevolent forces and there are malicious forces out there in the Universe. This we know to be True. The question is what we choose to do about them, how we choose to integrate them into our lives, how we choose to perceive them in the first place. Dion Fortune's books have really opened my eyes to the importance of attitude during any experience.

 

[Fr33bird]

Hmm.. I don't think it can be learned, just like that. I think one can improve on their ability to make the situation safe for the explorer.

For instance having a doctor that won't call the police if you live in an area in which psychedelics are not an accepted part of culture.

I think the main thing is being open if the person needs you. Whether that be to just take them to the bathroom, get them a drink, get a piece of fruit for them. I would NOT, however, try to guide them.. Let their heart guide them. It's their journey.

I think another important factor with the sitter is that there needs to be a relationship of some sort, in my opinion, between the tripper and sitter. This make it easier for communication and understanding.

Lastly, I am sure I missed some important ones, is that the sitter needs to be more experienced or have experienced the psychedelic experience many times. This way, they can understand and connect with the place that this person is in.

I think the sitters true purpose is to make the area feel safe and comfortable. If you can do that, then you have achieved the ability to be a sitter.

Good luck and be safe.

Thank you DeDao

 

[Global]

I don't mean to be alarming or anything of that nature, but at this point in my life, I think I would recommend against reading "Ayahuasca in my Blood" and I'll tell you why. I personally loved the book when I read it. It's well-written and a legitimately fun read. Having said that, in retrospect I kinda wish I hadn't read it. I had a much easier time dealing with all ranges of negative experiences without letting them affect my psyche in the slightest, but then after all that reading of brujeria in the book, it's hard to look at those dark entities the same, and for the first time I began to become fearful during my experiences. Of course everyone's different. Maybe the book will do wonders for you. Who knows? But I thought I would let you in on my experience. I'll be honest. I've done a lot of learning from my psychedelic reading that I consider to be invaluable, but there's a part of me that wishes that I would have just journeyed without all the reading. As I sit here and write this, I realize that the book is for your sitter and not you, so perhaps this whole cautionary disclaimer is unwarranted in this thread, but I'll leave my thoughts here for others' consideration.

"That it is all very serious is the name of the silly negative game" - Dion Fortune, Psychic Self Defense.

Forgive me for such a curt reply. Dark Entities should indeed be treated very seriously and indeed the gods are not forces to be fucked with. However, I believe that we are assuming ourselves to be weak puppets if we don't think we have the tools to defend ourselves against such forces (are we?). There are benevolent forces and there are malicious forces out there in the Universe. This we know to be True. The question is what we choose to do about them, how we choose to integrate them into our lives, how we choose to perceive them in the first place. Dion Fortune's books have really opened my eyes to the importance of attitude during any experience.

In hyperspace entities, particularly high-level entities IME tend to have far more control of everything going on than you do; hence the common wisdom of "letting go" and "surrending control" because most resistance you put up against them commonly results in your trauma. Having said that, if you read a book that has a large focus on brujeria and virotes (the magic spirit darts) and then you have massively creepy entities leaving energetic fuzzy slime on you, as it feels like you have all the positivity and life-force sucked out from beneath your feet....it doesn't really boil down to choice. I don't get to choose not having that information on brujeria. It's now a part of my psychology that I simply have to deal with. Rationally, I can convince myself that they probably are truly harmless, but I still can't face them the same way as before.

Furthermore, I've tried about every piece of "metaphysical advice" for dealing with these entities such as loving them, directing positive energy at them, scorning them, trying to dominate them, ignoring them, "choosing" to perceive them as benign, telling them to leave, "asking them if they're my teacher" (as is the advice given to Peter Gorman in "Ayahuasca in My Blood" by his spirit-aides), calling for help from a higher power, envisioning white light...all that - and those negative entities don't seem to really notice anything has happened at all. When you're in their world....you're in their world. The DMT experience tends to be much more of a passive one than an active one - it happens to you, more than you doing much to it. Though having said all that, the one avenue I've found reasonable protection from is through throat singing. In any case, I don't think you get to choose what you believe. I don't think it's that simple really. Not when it comes to fear anyway. I'm simply trying to save you (and your gf - as I don't know if a sitter should really be reading about brujeria either) some of the potential trouble such as what I've gone through. Now, you can take my advice or not - as I said, it really is a fun and great read otherwise - but I'm just letting you know.

 

[Fr33bird]

I like how you mention entities in terms of "level". I often feel that there is kind of a hierarchy in the psychedelic world. for example IMO: DMT > mushrooms > Cannabis.

It's so true that the knowledge we choose to expose ourselves to will affect us from then on out. Kinda scary to think about (how powerful subliminal programming can be). Sometimes a fun read, can turn out not to be so fun after all!

If we are working under the presumption that these forces are separate, and there is nothing we can do about it, then indeed surrender is the best option. If we are working under the presumption that "it's all in the mind" then indeed, we would have the power to "control" these forces.

How are we to discern which position to take? How are we to know for sure whether we are "at the mercy" of these forces, or if these forces actually ARE US, in which case we can learn to control them?

I find the relationship aspect between man and spirit-plant to be so fascinating. Through my experiences, I have been shown and understand fully that we are all one. But does anyone else find it funny and contradictory that a "separate" spirit force, GIVES to US (another separate EGO individual) this knowledge of UNITY? 3,2,1, 0

 

[Global]

How are we to discern which position to take? How are we to know for sure whether we are "at the mercy" of these forces, or if these forces actually ARE US, in which case we can learn to control them?

For many of us who take DMT, discerning which position to take becomes irrelevant because to the best of our abilities, there seems to be no clear way to control these entities. Even if they are not, they act as if they were autonomous. They (can) have information and knowledge unavailable to your conscious mind. If they "are us", then they know things you don't and can do things you can't. I suppose that you'll just have to see how it plays out for you in regards to discerning a position. There is much personal experimentation to be done for every individual who embarks on this journey because there's few clear-cut and steadfast rules that apply across the board in any given situation for any given person.

 

[Fr33bird]

How are we to discern which position to take? How are we to know for sure whether we are "at the mercy" of these forces, or if these forces actually ARE US, in which case we can learn to control them?

For many of us who take DMT, discerning which position to take becomes irrelevant because to the best of our abilities, there seems to be no clear way to control these entities. Even if they are not, they act as if they were autonomous. They (can) have information and knowledge unavailable to your conscious mind. If they "are us", then they know things you don't and can do things you can't. I suppose that you'll just have to see how it plays out for you in regards to discerning a position. There is much personal experimentation to be done for every individual who embarks on this journey because there's few clear-cut and steadfast rules that apply across the board in any given situation for any given person.

What about preparatory meditations? Isn't that kind of a way to control these forces? What about the act of asking these forces for guidance or help? Could it be that their autonomy is merely an illusion?

Just thinking outside of the box a bit. But i do keep in mind some famous lyrics by TOOL:

"over thinking, over analyzing separates the body from the mind.
Withering my intuition leaving opportunities behind.
Feed my will to feel this moment urging me to cross the line.
Reaching out to embrace the random.
Reaching out to embrace whatever may come."

In the end, overanalyzing a trip might be the most detrimental thing one can do.