Troubleshooting AARB extraction

[Dimension1139]

Hello Nexus,

I'm currently troubleshooting my first attempts at extraction. I'm a novice, but I can follow documented procedures methodically, so I figured an A/B extraction would be relatively straightforward. However, my two initial runs have challenged that assumption.

I'm working within the limitations of being in Australia, so my material options are largely limited to Acacia acuminata root bark and/or phyllodes. I sourced my starting material from what I understand to be a reputable vendor.

Attempt 1:
I followed Minty’s DPTEK:

• 3× freeze/thaw cycles in acetic acid
• Combined with basic salted solution
• Quick, room-temp naphtha pulls
• Freeze precipitation

This yielded nothing. Not a single crystal or precipitate.

Attempt 2:
I followed Cyb’s Hybrid Salt Tek. The prolonged warm pulls and increased agitation gave me a much yellower solvent, which precipitated into a little goo. Not much, but definitely something. I tested a tiny amount and experienced effects, so there's active alkaloid present.

Still, something is clearly off in my process. I acknowledge I might be the weak link, but the steps seem so straightforward that I’ve struggled to pinpoint what could be causing such poor outcomes, especially the zero yield on the first run.

I’ve combed through the Acacia Extraction Workspace (an amazing resource, huge thanks to all contributors) and many threads here, but haven’t found anything conclusive.

This brings me to my main suspicion: the solvent. I’ve been using Diggers brand Shellite, which I’ve seen reported as inconsistent. That said, I hadn’t expected it to be responsible for a complete yield failure.

To test this, I’ve picked up some Zippo lighter fluid and plan to do a warm pull on the retained soup from my Cyb’s run. It’s pricey, but reportedly reliable. Hopefully this comparison sheds some light.

Evap test results:

• Diggers Shellite = oily residue
• Zippo = faint chalky film, no oil

Next steps: I may trial another tek involving boiling or even pressure cooking, and possibly look at alternative solvents entirely.

Open to any thoughts, critiques, or pointers. Cheers!

 

[Sakkadelic]

Hi Dimension1139,

Welcome to the nexus!

I'm happy to see you're working on your extraction and despite the underwhelming results I'm sure you'll be greatly rewarded once you get it right.

I doubt it's the naphta but it could be. It's possible the source material is weak or it's not being broken down properly. You say you are following the teks and they seem straightforward which they are, but sometimes some adaptation you make which seem logical might affect the results, things you'll learn about by experience beyond reading and understanding teks.

So are you following those teks exactly? Your starting material is different so you may have to make some changes. It would be useful to provide more details about your process especially things you may have done a bit differently from the teks.

Here's some thoughts. How much plant material are you extracting? Is it whole bark, shreded or powdered? The acid freeze/thaw cycles are not enough on their own, it's better to still cook it in A/B extraction. What is your container volume and base solution volume?How long are you letting it sit with the base before pulling? Are shaking and mixing before the first pull?

You also need to consider getting better NPS if yours is leaving residue.

 

[Dimension1139]

Hi Sakkadelic,

I've been doing my best to follow the teks to the letter, gram for gram and step by step, without deviation.

In both cases, I used the exact quantities specified:

• DPTEK: 100g bark
• Cyb’s Hybrid Salt Tek: 50g bark

The bark was finely shredded, and for Cyb’s tek, I processed it further into a powder.

DPTEK does not call for a cook of the A/B extraction, whereas Cyb’s involves a two-hour cook in a water bath. I used a 2L reagent bottle for both runs, and the base solution volume was per spec in each case.

As for agitation:

• DPTEK: 30 seconds of agitation followed by 5 minutes of separation
• Cyb’s: 30 seconds of agitation followed by 10 minutes of separation, repeated four times per pull

For my third attempt, I’m thinking of fully documenting the entire process, step by step, so it can be critiqued more easily.

My last 100g of material is currently going through acidified freeze/thaw cycles and so I'm considering attempting a tek specifically authored for AARB
Sillysyban no goo
Northerners Double PC Bark

I also have a quantity of phyllodes en-route
The Invocacia Method by Flux
The Simple Phyylode Tek by nen888

 

[Sakkadelic]

The bark was finely shredded, and for Cyb’s tek, I processed it further into a powder.

For the first tek with shredded bark, the freeze/thaw definitely won't be enough.

How long are you letting it sit with the base before pulling? Are shaking and mixing before the first pull?

What I meant here is before doing any pulls. If the DMT was already in solution it's ok to base and pull immediately. But if it's still locked in the plant cells, especially with shredded bark and no acid cooks, you need to give time for the base to brake down the cells and release the dmt. So you can leave it for few hours with frequent mixing for the base to do its job then pull.

My last 100g of material is currently going through acidified freeze/thaw cycles and so I'm considering attempting a tek specifically authored for AARB
Sillysyban no goo
Northerners Double PC Bark

If I understood correctly, Northerners got much improved results with extensive cooking. Pressure cooking is great if you have a pressure cooker. I think that's your best bet for improving your yield.

 

[Dimension1139]

What I meant here is before doing any pulls. If the DMT was already in solution it's ok to base and pull immediately. But if it's still locked in the plant cells, especially with shredded bark and no acid cooks, you need to give time for the base to brake down the cells and release the dmt. So you can leave it for few hours with frequent mixing for the base to do its job then pull.

Understood.

After the failure of the no-cook DPTEK method, I was hoping that the two hours of agitated water bath cooking in Cyb’s tek would be enough to yield results. Unfortunately, it did not. I also just completed a pull using Zippo fluid, after the soup had sat for 48 hours and still got zero precipitate, so I think that eliminates the NPS as the cause.

At this point, it seems clear that what I need to try next is an extended, and preferably pressurised, cook of the acidic solution before basifying.

 

[Sakkadelic]

Yeah the issue is more likely in the plant material and/or it's processing. Long acid cooks will ensure the dmt is in solution before basifying. And don't worry about boiling it hard, dmt salts are pretty stable. Long hard boils may result in more yellow or gooey dmt but the yield will be higher.

Have you tried evaping half the NPS before freeze precip and putting the freezer on max?

 

[Dimension1139]

Yeah the issue is more likely in the plant material and/or it's processing. Long acid cooks will ensure the dmt is in solution before basifying. And don't worry about boiling it hard, dmt salts are pretty stable. Long hard boils may result in more yellow or gooey dmt but the yield will be higher.

Ok great. This sounds like the direction I need to take this. I'll collect a pressure cooker tomorrow morning and have a result in the next few days. Thank you very much for the guidance.

Have you tried evaping half the NPS before freeze precip and putting the freezer on max?

Yes and this is where my concerns began because I saw no formation of crystals/precipitate after this reduction.

 

[Dimension1139]

Well, I’ve just placed the dish in the freezer and unfortunately, things aren’t looking good.

Here is exactly what I just did:

Material

• 90g Acacia acuminata root bark (AARB)

Acid Cook

• Mixed AARB with ~300ml white vinegar, performed 3× freeze/thaw (this step had already begun before I changed direction)
• Transferred bark to pressure cooker with 2L demineralised water, adjusted pH to ~4 with vinegar
• Pressure cooked at 15 psi for 3 hours, strained, then repeated a second cook
• Combined both cooks and reduced total volume to ~1.5L
• Discarded spent bark

Basification

• Transferred acidic solution to 2L media bottle
• Added 100g non-iodised salt, dissolved
• Prepared 300ml demineralised water + 100g NaOH in a glass beaker
• Added this to the media bottle until pH reached 13 (used full 300ml)
• Mixed thoroughly

Extraction

• Added 80ml Shellite, agitated vigorously (no solids, emulsion not a concern), allowed to separate, repeat four times over 15 minutes and pulled to crystallisation dish
• Repeated once with another 80ml Shellite
• Combined pulls and evaporated dish under a fan at a slight angle until ~2/3 of solvent was gone (more than intended)

Outcome

• No crystal formation, just the some of the same waxy goo I previously encountered with Cyb’s tek
• Absolutely nothing like what Northerner achieved
• Dish is now cling-wrapped and in the freezer overnight for review in the morning

I'm feeling very pessimistic. I’ll be shocked if there’s anything worthwhile tomorrow.
I want to blame the source material… but having never performed a successful extraction before, I have to assume I’m doing something wrong. I just can’t figure out what it is.
Any further insight or critique would be deeply appreciated.

 

[Sakkadelic]

That is already looking like a decent amount of goo! You'd be surprised how much it weighs once you scrape it. Goo is good!
If things don't look much better (for your eyes) after freeze precip, or even if they do. I suggest you evap all the NPS and do recrystalisation (dissolve in a small amount of warm NPS, not everything will dissolve, freeze precip) and hopefully you'll see some nice xtals. To me it's looking promising

 

[Dimension1139]

Here is the result after 8 hours of evaporation under a fan.
It's all goo, those 'crystals' disappear to the slightest touch


Scraped

Weighed


400mg of goo from 90g of what was sold as "AARB".

The reason I’m quoting “AARB” is that since posting my struggles online, I’ve heard from several other Australians who’ve had nearly identical issues some all of whom have confirmed they are using the same material from the same supplier. If this is the case then I suppose I am grateful for this experience to have caused me to be critical of my methods. And that when I source alternate material I have a good shot at a decent yield.

I've dissolved the goo in hot NPS and stored it in a small, sealed jar. I suppose I will process it in with my next attempt.

 

[Ernestine]

I loosely follow dptek with mhrb. I wondered if you have considered using an initial defatting pull with aarb, if you find a better source of bark in future.

You could also try a reextraction from your goo to see if you can liberate the alkaloids. Add acid to the goo and decent, then do a small pull?

I sometimes get a poor yield in my initial pulls. So i keep pulling many times until i get no more precipitation and always get to around 1% eventually. Don't give up just because the first pull is disappointing. I reuse the same NPS after each freeze, so all it costs you is a little time.

 

[_Trip_]

You'll need a "wider spectrum" solvent to pull the rest of the spice with AARB. But you'll get goo (sometimes will form a wax overtime). You could salt it out for a dmt salt form to get smokable crystals, or try a re-x/ wash to get freebase crystals.

 

[Sakkadelic]

Here is the result after 8 hours of evaporation under a fan.
It's all goo, those 'crystals' disappear to the slightest touch

View attachment 103779
Scraped
View attachment 103780
Weighed
View attachment 103781

400mg of goo from 90g of what was sold as "AARB".

The reason I’m quoting “AARB” is that since posting my struggles online, I’ve heard from several other Australians who’ve had nearly identical issues some all of whom have confirmed they are using the same material from the same supplier. If this is the case then I suppose I am grateful for this experience to have caused me to be critical of my methods. And that when I source alternate material I have a good shot at a decent yield.

I've dissolved the goo in hot NPS and stored it in a small, sealed jar. I suppose I will process it in with my next attempt.

That's not too bad tbh, it's a success for sure!
I get it it's a little disappointing you didn't get beautiful xtals but nothing wrong with goo. You can try cleaning it up or make enhanced leaf or changa with it.

 

[Crystal Licker]

Hi Dimension,

There is nothing wrong with goo!! Enjoy it!!

Hopefully someone else can confirm or refute my thoughts but from what I’ve read in some other posts on here, when working with Acacia, especially Acuminata, the ph range during the process and the temperature during solvent pulls can result in a wider range of constituents, re-x or another mini ab might fix this but apparently if you control ph and temp you can maybe achieve this the first time round.

If you’re adding just vinegar to the bark then that’s gonna be a pretty low ph, with acacia I think you might wanna try stay above 3.5 at all times, I’m not sure you even need to add vinegar if you are patient enough.

Also after your done and strained, let your acid boil sit overnight and poor it off and get rid of the sludge at the bottom, do this at least once.

Also don’t overshoot the ph, don’t go too high with it.

Maybe also try let the base mix cool to room temp before you start pulling, pretty sure people try room temp pulls with some acacia, then I think you can try raise the temp of the vessel from room temp, maybe do a room temp pull then maybe do another at a higher temp and see.

It sounds like maybe ph range, temperature control and letting particles and sludge settle is helpful with acacia.

Note these are all my speculations from reading this forum, I’ve not ever tested these theories.

Hopefully someone with experience can correct me if I’m wrong.

 

[Crystal Licker]

I've dissolved the goo in hot NPS and stored it in a small, sealed jar. I suppose I will process it in with my next attempt.

You can wipe the goo in a line down a rolling paper and roll up anything with it, Damiana is good if you’re tryna keep off weed.

Maybe don’t mix it back in with the next run so you can have an accurate read on if the next route works better.

 

[I know nothing]

I'm working within the limitations of being in Australia, so my material options are largely limited to Acacia acuminata root bark and/or phyllodes. I sourced my starting material from what I understand to be a reputable vendor

So I to am a novice at this and so far I have had good results with my aarb and as I to am in Australia I can only assume our materials are similarly sourced so here’s my process

1 100g bark add 100 ml distilled white vinegar, 120ml boiling distilled water. With a fork mix well and continuously mash for about 45 min
2 add 80g calcium hydroxide mix well until no white can be seen about 10 min if really dry add a very small amount water cover with cling wrap leave sit for 2 days
3 150 ml Shellie into a jar warmed up in a crockpot tack the bark which I have in a Pyrex oven dish all squished flat into microwave for 1.2 min pour Shellie evenly all over gently mix through. Then put the dish on an angle, pull bark to top side and using a spoon or baster baste the bark with the shellite that runs out for 5 to 10 min (what h evaporation you may need to add a small amount of Shellie. Using a paint scraper gently squish shellite out of bark should be clear don’t get the muddy go in it
4 Put shellite in a clean dish cling wrap and into freezer lower temp the better for 2 days
5 repeat pull every 3 to 4 days I do at least 4 pulls 2 is always the best

My friend introduced me to this method unfortunately I didn’t have scales to weigh final result but let’s just say it was enough for a good few journeys
I hope this helps

 

[I know nothing]

Ps hardly any goo just the white goodies

 

[Crystal Licker]

So I to am a novice at this and so far I have had good results with my aarb and as I to am in Australia I can only assume our materials are similarly sourced so here’s my process

1 100g bark add 100 ml distilled white vinegar, 120ml boiling distilled water. With a fork mix well and continuously mash for about 45 min
2 add 80g calcium hydroxide mix well until no white can be seen about 10 min if really dry add a very small amount water cover with cling wrap leave sit for 2 days
3 150 ml Shellie into a jar warmed up in a crockpot tack the bark which I have in a Pyrex oven dish all squished flat into microwave for 1.2 min pour Shellie evenly all over gently mix through. Then put the dish on an angle, pull bark to top side and using a spoon or baster baste the bark with the shellite that runs out for 5 to 10 min (what h evaporation you may need to add a small amount of Shellie. Using a paint scraper gently squish shellite out of bark should be clear don’t get the muddy go in it
4 Put shellite in a clean dish cling wrap and into freezer lower temp the better for 2 days
5 repeat pull every 3 to 4 days I do at least 4 pulls 2 is always the best

My friend introduced me to this method unfortunately I didn’t have scales to weigh final result but let’s just say it was enough for a good few journeys
I hope this helps

Thanks for the input, I know nothing.
Haha love how that sounds.

Is your calcium hydroxide food grade pickling lime or another type? Been wondering if that is sufficient PH for a naphtha pull without having to use sodium hydroxide, appreciate your experience and advice.

There might be a chance that this method leaves constituents behind, getting cleaner results whilst maintaining efficiency seems to be a challenge with acacia, but to be honest, I know nothing.

 

[I know nothing]

Yes just pickling lime my end result does have a thin layer of oil but I’m easily able to cleanly remove the crystals with a razor blade they go in one jar then I scrape the go int another both products are active

 

[KrisTM]

Extraction

• Added 80ml Shellite, agitated vigorously (no solids, emulsion not a concern), allowed to separate, repeat four times over 15 minutes and pulled to crystallisation dish
• Repeated once with another 80ml Shellite
• Combined pulls and evaporated dish under a fan at a slight angle until ~2/3 of solvent was gone (more than intended)

I think doing the pulls with the base & Shellite warm is a must if you didn't. Being paitient here is probably key too. I think washing for at least 30 minutes each pull is a minimum. Personally I would consider the below with rotates each 10 or 15. A sink refill each 30 and the pull at 60.

Your hot water at home is probably ~48C. Bottles float and would probably spin really nicely floating. A floating bottle sideways would really increase the contact area of the base/Shellite opposed to an upright bottle. Refilling a sink whenever the temp dropped would be easy. As long as your vessel didn’t leak it would be effective. Sodastream bottles would probably work great but the seal might need to be replaced with a duro 90 or nitrile O'ring as the Shellite would react with the original seal.