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True Open Eyed Hallucinations. Which Substance?

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Thanks so much for the information an concern. SWIM sometimes forgets to reply as he gets distracted researching the useful tips mentioned.

SWIM will probably try datura, starting at low 10 seed dose to feel out the effects before considering a higher visual dose.
 
I've smoked Datura before, but it didn't do anything. Apparently in the Middle East it is sometimes mixed with opium and hash in smoking mixes.

When I tried Brugmansia, I made a tea, using a single flower I think, was quite a few years ago now though. It was only steeped for 10 mins or so, then all leaf parts removed. It is very important, with large doses, not to ingest any solid plant matter that can continue releasing alkoids, making dosing much more risky.

This tea was split between 3. I had tried to err on the side of caution, and wasn't expecting much. About 20 mins/half an hour later, I started to feel drunk, and dizzy, my centre of balance was definitely messed up. I remember going to the toilet, and seeing the floor of the toilet swirl around, which I thought was interesting as I was fully aware this was due to ingesting the Brugmansia...I had thought the hallucinations were entirely deliriant in anture. It was time to lie down.

Felt kind of sleepy, so we all went to bed. It was a weird feeling. Felt like dirty electricty was running up and down my dody. Wasn't pleasant per say, but can't say it was particularly unpleasant either. Raging drymouth though. In this weird trance state, the boundary between dreaming and waking reality had been destroyed, so I had crystal clear visions, which I engaged with fully, such as talking to my friends, and other things, that at the time, seemed completely real. I think at this point, I was no longer aware I had ingested the Brugmansia, definitely a more deliriant vibe. Not sure how long this went on for. Hard to remember all of what featured that night.

No hangover the next day. Felt quite good actually...this energy in my body, subtle but there. I couldn't read small print for another day though.

I wouldn't do it again. Despite all the horror stories on Erowid, never felt any fear or anxiety, at all. But personally, I didn't find it particularly interesting, fun or useful.
 
With Datura, is there a substance you can take that will prevent the memory loss so that you can clearly remember that you're tripping?

The main problem is that you forget you're tripping and start believing what you see is real. If a substance, maybe LSD, could stimulate the brain enough that this stupidity and forgetfulness can't happen, then maybe a more useful experience can be had.
 
Fiashly said:
I could be wrong having never taken datura but I am pretty sure I have heard horror stories of Datura Stramonium seed consumption that involved only 10-15 seeds. Maybe it was alkaloid variability or something. Personally I wouldn't touch it nor recommend it but if you are going to ignore the reams of information about how dangerous and harmful this can be and still do it, then you should probably start smaller than 10 seeds. Just my 2 cents.
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That's not possible for Datura stramonium seeds. They would have to be a different Datura. Some Datura seeds from other Datura are really big, so 10 seeds could produce delirium. But with Datura stramonium, each seed weighs a maximum of 10 mg (most are 7 mg), and contains a maximum of 0.7% alkaloids (most are about 0.3%), so 1 super potent super big seed could contain only 70 micrograms of alkaloids. 10 would be 700 micrograms maximum. That's not enough for delirium, that's in fact within the normal dose used medicinally (400-800 micrograms) and which doesn't cause delirium. It's not until well over 1500 micrograms are used that it's possible to get delirium from the alkaloids.
 
Datura seeds are sometimes misidentified, and sold as “Jimson weed” (Datura stramonium). I know of several vendors that sale the wrong seeds as “Jimson weed”. One place sales Datura inoxia and calls it “Jimson weed”. A few others sale other more unusual Datura and also label them as “Jimson weed”. So be careful.
 
I disagree 69ron, I have found that fresh Datura seeds from plants I grow can be 10 times as powerful as old stale seeds from ethnobotanical companies.

This was with Datura stramonium. I tested the seeds from the vendor and then grew a plant from the same exact batch of seeds, the fresh seeds were about 5 times more potent, I'd guess.

Perhaps it would take more than 10 or 15.... but that is getting close.
 
There must be some drug that can counteract the stupefying effect of Datura without counteracting the hallucinogenic effects.

Has anyone heard of any such thing?

I've heard from one member here that LSD seemed to do this. Can anyone support this claim?
 
Get a sitter or two that are SIGNIFICANTLY stronger than you. Then try PCP. Start with a VERY low dose so you can get an idea, then move from there. Personally, never done it, but it sounds like the trip you want. Definately a better option than the tropanes IMO.
 
There are many kinds of Datura that get sold as Datura stramonium.

As long as you base dosage on the weight of the seed, you'll be ok. Datura stramonium contains a maximum of 0.7% alkaloids, and D. inoxia is I think 0.4% max. That's not very much. You need well over 1.5 mg of alkaloids for mental effects. With Datura stramonium, 1 mg of Datura stramonium seeds at 0.7% alkaloids can have a maximum of 7 micrograms of alkaloids. You would need 214 mg of super potent seeds to contain 1.5 mg of alkaloids. That's a lot of seeds. Each seed weighs a maximum of 10 mg. Most weigh 7 mg. Do the math. That means you need more than 21 seeds to have mental effects if the seeds were super strong. To cause delirium, you need a much higher dose than that.

All the hysteria about these seeds is amazing. People throw around rumors and other misinformation all the time.

The potency data for these seeds has been known for a long time.

There is NO WAY 10 seeds could cause delirium in a normal adult, unless you are extremely sensitive to tropane alkaloids.
 
You probably didn't take enough. Stupor happens at a lower dose than hallucinations do. The hallucinations happen at a near lethal dose. With Datura stramonium, people often use in excess of 250 seeds to induce hallucinations.
 
benzyme, if you couldnt remember anything how can you know whether you were hallucinating? From what iv seen from datura trip reports, people do alot of strange things which they only find out about later from friends/the mess they have made.

I think you should try every other option before datura. Different changa mixes perhapse. I find mescaline to be the best in terms of visuals:mind fuck ratio. Although iv never taken any realy massive doses. Maybe a very high dose of mescaline, or a very long trip on mescaline like Coatl suggested.
Mixtures can be alot more powerful than a single drug. LSD and mescaline combined has given me some very strong hallucinations without too much of a mental trip.
 
expanding said:
benzyme, if you couldnt remember anything how can you know whether you were hallucinating? From what iv seen from datura trip reports, people do alot of strange things which they only find out about later from friends/the mess they have made.
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yeah, happened to me as well
that's called a stupor.

done similar stuff while piss drunk
wouldn't call it hallucinating, but a delirium. potent NMDA-antagonists like dizocilpine can do the same


not doubting one can hallucinate on datura, just that I never had.
cocaine and caffeine can make one hallucinate too.
 
From my one experience with Brugmansia, one thing I remember vividly is talking to my friend who was sitting on the end of my bed for some time, I was engaging with this illusion completely, thinking it was real. No idea what we talked about, but the vision was completely concrete and real to my perception, and no he wasn't really there! So I would definitely class this as an open eyed hallucination.

Still though I wouldn't bother with these plants...you can't really bring back anything of value...for me, the fun, interest and learning to be had are negligible...wouldn't bother again.
 
Does bufo not fall into this category? Never had a good dose of it myself, but from what I've read from others on these boards, open eyed visions occur, but you never lose your ability to distinguish normal reality from hallucination.
In my experience, and almost all of them were unpleasant at the time, mushrooms and acid can achieve this. Dramamine achieves it as well, but you have no idea that what you are hallucinating isn't real, and I wouldn't advise ever taking it as a recreational drug, I happened upon it when I was younger and regret ever delving into it - you hallucinate full on people, cars, trees, you have in depth conversations with people who do not exist, and if you are in a public place, people who do exist will think you are crazy.
 
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