Trying to improve Acacia information

[acacian]

well i went for a walk today and ended up getting really lost! ended up a few suburbs away and had no idea where i was. feet are sore was a long walk..
I am really intrigued about the trees in my neighbourhood, I am beginning to think that none of them are floribunda, as they all seem to have a slightly differen't vein structure. this would certainly suggest why I have had so many failed extractions from these trees. But I feel floribunda ay also be a really variable species as if you look at pictures on the net many look completely differen't to each other. I am going to try and get onto the council and find out if the are indeed acacia floribunda.. as i am beginning to think it may be a specific variety that are the tryptamine containers

 

[Seldom]

some good stuff the last few pages. i don't know if it means anything but in line with stuff people have already posted ,i won't go on about it but in 20 yrs when people ask how the f i got to know this stuff i'm gonna have to say it started by tracking down a dude i watched give a talk at EGA 2011 on entheogenic effects of nmt. i have admiration for the orientation which people here show toward these things. i think often about the moral dimensions of this becoming more and more well known


also attached is a file with another list of alkaloid containing species for keen people to have a look at, if all goes well i'll have a squiz at a. neriifolia soon, a phyllodineae species that's noted in csiro screenings as containing 'undisclosed alkaloids, also incuded in the list of species in the 'plant and precursor schedules for Commonwealth drug offences proposal



edit: upload took too long, link is Alkaloid-bearing Plants and Their Contained Alkaloids available as free .pdf

 

[Spice Sailor]

Salutations Nexians.
It has been many posts since it was mentioned (page 26) but I have posted a number photos showing the sometimes very confusing similarities in features of Acacia's maidenii and melanoxylon. Details of images in order at the end, sorry some are very blurry and not great.

Do you have experience with extracting Maidenii?

Brickie forgot you asked this a while back. I have had many different experiences with Maidenii identification and extractions and I feel this information may be useful and also is more evidence to the theory that Maidenii has a number of sub types and some have a good alkaloid profile and some do not.

Began with looking at/comparing with ID books what i thought were maidenii's in september. (none were in flower but pods were usually present, and i noted subtle differences between some). All of them fitted the ID desriptions without the presence of flowers though.

I didn't look at the trees again until late april the following year and noticed that some of the presumed Maidenii's were in flower (or about to) and some were not. The ones that were in flower all had the same yellowy/creamy "spike" flowers. Again I noticed that even though they had same flowers the phyllodes shape and colour changed from tree to tree and area to area. A few months later in the year while collecting Maidenii seeds I noticed the other look - a - like Maidenii's had flowers on them quite different to the "spike one". While the pods seemed the exact same to me as Maidenii's the flowers didn't lie and I discovered it was Melanoxylon.

The following year during flowering (to be sure of ID) the branch bark of a Maidenii (500g) was A/B extracted. Yielded a little bit of oily goo that I did not bio assy. Later in the year (Aug) it was attempted again (from the same tree) and had a similar result to the first experiment, the tiny bit was bio assy'd with negative results.

A month later I tried another Maidenii branch from a tree that had different phyllodes to the first one. Didn't expect much but was surprised to get approx 2 - 3 grams of oily goo this time that when smoked introduced me to interstellar travel. *Note the oil extracted was very crude and I soaked it up with tobacco to sample*

Another extraction from a maidenii in late Feb the next year (from a new location), that looked different again to others tested, yielded a tiny amount of oil similar to the first extraction. The one tree that had the yield similar to that reported by the CSIRO had phyllodes with specific phyllode characteristics.

Again sorry the photos are not the best. some are ok

Photo 1 and 2: are of separate trees that are examples of the phyllodes of the original high yielding sub type tested. Not the actual tree but shares same phyllode characteristics)
Photo 3: One of the very low / no result sub types
Photo 4: Another low / no
Photo 5: One I have yet to test, on the list for when the rain resides
Photo 6: One of the melanoxylon forms
Photo 7: Another melanoxylon form
Photo 8: And just cause it has awesome colours/patterns (sorry I know the thread is huge), a bug i found and photographed on what I believe is Acacia penninervis.

 

[acacian]

thanks for the info spice sailor
I'm going to do a test extract on a maidenii in my neighbourhood I'll let you know how it goes!

 

[nen888]

..thanks Spice Sailor for the great A. maidenii info and pics [^post#631] (especially the 'beetle' )..

thanks also Growpen for the comparision shots..as with bricklaya's query about A. floribunda variability, the essential key with these species (due to many species having similar, or morphing phyllodes/bark) is the Flowers..if you have these there can be no doubt..(with most cases, a few also require pods to differentiate)
..A. floribunda has thinner/more flexible phyllodes than, say, maidenii etc..it has, incidentally, been recorded as hybridizing with A. oxycedrus (see p1); thanks Seldom for the link!


Acacia xanthophloea is native to southern and eastern Africa, including Botswana, Kenya, Malawi, Mozambique, Somalia, South Africa, Swaziland, Tanzania, Zambia and Zimbabwe..
it's naturalized in the USA, and 3 trees are growing in S.E. Qld, Australia..
..it has medicinal usage in Africa, including anti-malarial, and i have been personally told of it's oral use in Kenya/Uganda (when i was there years ago)..it's a tree i've been researching for a while, and plan to follow up..
a decoction is said to induce a temporary 'fever' in ceremony..

from Studies on the Antiplasmodial Properties of Some South African Medicinal Plants Used as Antimalarial Remedies in Zulu Folk Medicine. by N Nundkumar et al. 2002:

Our preliminary phytochemical analysis revealed the presence of
anthraquinones, flavonoids, saponins, terpenoids and other alkaloids.

says wikipedia:

These trees are immortalized by Rudyard Kipling in one of his Just So Stories, The Elephant's Child, wherein he repeatedly refers to "the great grey-green, greasy Limpopo River, all set about with fever-trees."

btw, this paper would be very good for acacia researchers if someone out there has access and can attach it..?

African list p3 updated..
..below, the fever-tree...

 

[nen888]

ps. fixed Histamine link in previous post..note, like dmt, it's endogenous (as well are nmt, 5meo, some harmalas & spermadine alkaloids) ..

 

[endlessness]

btw, this paper would be very good for acacia researchers if someone out there has access and can attach it..?

 

[cave paintings]

Hm. A little discouraging. My most recent extraction after laborious evaporation of some heavy naphtha yielded another goo, but not nearly as much as I would have liked. Smoked about 25 minutes ago. Produced immediate but mild dmt like headspace but leveled out quickly to a very mild buzz that is hardly able to be characterized. Might be time to move on to a different acacia. The saligna may be next on my list.

 

[nen888]

^..cave paintings, nevermind, looks like you've a few choices..the second tree you tested does look a little different to the first..trees can also be individually variant in content..[EDIT - also, cave paintings, [see ID thread here for pics] that does appear to be A. constricta and A. texensis..i'm sure your last experiments were A. penninervis and a crossbreed..and the last is a Mesquite..


..thanks rahlii..i also pondered auriculiformis, though the pods in most i've seen are wider/larger than holosceria, which are wider than mangium..all 3 species are worth investigation..

& thank you endlessness for the paper..very helpful!

Seldom wrote:

also attached is a file with another list of alkaloid containing species for keen people to have a look at, if all goes well i'll have a squiz at a. neriifolia soon, a phyllodineae species that's noted in csiro screenings as containing 'undisclosed alkaloids, also incuded in the list of species in the 'plant and precursor schedules for Commonwealth drug offences proposal

..fantastic detective work Seldom..!:d ..so now the government is telling us what species contain DMT..

btw, law enforcement agents and government..i know you're in here as well..bringing even greater attention to these species by legislation is surely not in your interests either..also, some of these plants have scientifically confirmed medicinal action..is it constructive in society to ban possible cancer treatments because a small percentage of people want to experience entheogens? ..also note this site does not tolerate trafficing or sale of these things..

.

below, Acacia nerifolia (native NSW tablelands)

 

[Gowpen]

btw, law enforcement agents and government..i know you're in here as well..bringing even greater attention to these species by legislation is surely not in your interests either..also, some of these plants have scientifically confirmed medicinal action..is it constructive in society to ban possible cancer treatments because a small percentage of people want to experience entheogens? ..also note this site does not tolerate trafficing or sale of these things..

.

If I might add,
I think the ethic of this site is undeniable. It will attract undesirables of both polarities. But on the other hand it is doing a public service BIG TIME. So it will be better and more useful tolerated and monitored.

It is clear from the frequent links to the attitde section and Health and safely page of the sites intentions.

Indeed, the first thing a new member is advised to read is such, ie, "The DMT Nexus is a community dedicated to expanding knowledge regarding DMT and related psychedelics, with a strong focus on the safety and respect necessary both in the use of these substances as well as in the form of developing the knowledge and sharing the knowledge within the community. For a proper functioning of the community, all of those browsing and posting here agree to honour the following key points: " Attitude Page - DMT-Nexus Wiki

If an Educational Compound can be respected so much as in this forum, the press, and for that matter the law, would find it very hard and painstakingly time consuming to find fault. There is no crime in providing information. However, If, IMO, this place was used to network some criminal activity ie, dealing or any form of unsavoury behaviour, then it would be stopped. It is based on a harm minimisation model to a large extent (this is only my view) where, if you are going to use/experiment with a substance, that you do it safely as possible and be as informed about the consequences as you can be. The ONLY way it can continue is to attract interested researchers and not idiots who just want to get "messed up", as with many other people who stumble upon DMT as a consequence of other drug or related illegal activity.
They are quickly dispatched due to the diligence and dedication of the senior members and moderators of the site. Without them this site might degenerate into just another public nuisance.

This site gives ordinary people the opportunity to honestly evaluate a substance that is more often described as a compound or a molecule with an amazing healing enrichment to it. In fact, NEVER have I read anything/anywhere on the Nexus contrary to this. That’s why I come here.

I am sure, as long as illegal activities are NOT presented here, they cannot be used as evidence against you. What you present here is pretty much annonamous, as much as you are just a curious visitor. I have seen a couple of comments concerning the legal implications of such recently.
My best advice to anyone here is to clean up your own homes and lives in such a way that minimal stress is taken regarding the legal aspects of this site, or DMT generally ie, "they did this or that crime/behaviour and used DMT" etc. etc. etc. That would do nothing for the credibility of this site.
Although, I feel I am preaching to the converted. Oh... I recently looked through my phone photos and thought it better to delete some just in case anyone decided to have a look.
back to Acacias......

 

[nen888]

^..excellent post thanks Growpen..

..i personally became interested in DMT when studying psychology/neurobiology at academic level..i then became interested in the many ancient traditions associated with it..i see it as a birth right..it is not a drug of addiction or abuse (except by tree exploiters), there has NEVER been a death from smoking DMT..so there is absolutely no justification for categorizing it as a Class A, or Schedule I drug (along with heroin and cocaine, which have killed many)

..i see the Acacias as finally creating a situation where the (western) law must back down..there are so many acacias which contain and potentially contain DMT that it will be impossible to control these plants in the way single species like cannabis or peyote have been..they cannot be ripped out of the environment (like cannabis crops) as they are crucial to the environment..

..the wisest thing the authorities could do is at least schedule DMT in a lower category (2 or 3), and allow legitimate scientific research to continue..i mean, the CSIRO just saying 'undisclosed alkaloid' on these plants now is ridiculous..

so, i say to YOU federal/international agents and politicians - what do you really know about DMT?
maybe, when you're on your death bed you'll see visions of the next level, and think..why did i fight against knowledge and the truth..? it's in your blood now...

@

 

[nen888]

..i've added Seldom's 'page jumper' from p22 to the bottom of p1 INDEX..thanks Seldom..you really rock!

..Acacia coolgardensis, below, another Western Australian species (only briefly mentioned in thread) in which 'J.J.' 2009 found DMT (in variety latoir, which has broader phyllodes..other varieties not tested yet)..full australian list p5..
.

 

[nen888]

ps. on Growpen's previous post..a general bit of advice to all..

it's prudent to NEVER HAVE TRAFFICABLE AMOUNTS OF EXTRACTS..this way legitimate research (and spiritual work) can be done without fear of being charged as a drug dealer..because in this situation, one is obviously and provably not..

now, without fear, let's continue the work all..thanks all contributors..
.

 

[endlessness]

Nen.. Do you think it would be a good idea if I make a new thread, "Acacia Identification Help Thread", and move all the posts asking for identification there, so this thread is only about information already gathered on Acacias?

This would clean up the thread quite a lot but the two biggest problems I see is, first of all, the index would be screwed (since number of posts would change I think). Also the other thing is if, when answering people for the identification, you also added other valuable acacia info, then this would be moved away from the thread and would have to be posted back in a new post.

Maybe its too late to do this now and it would mean more work than help?

 

[acacian]

that would make it easier to navigate endlessness, but as you said it would confuse the thread a bit with the index and the many many posts in the many pages that contain them. I was thinking all this info is so great it could be good to compile it a more organized manner, because it can be quite time consuming for people having to surf through so many posts to find what they're looking for...

I think it would be cool if there was some kind of table to sort the data through... and further more maybe a blank template for a table that people could fill in after testing species to submit to nen... clarifying the species used, the area of the plant used for extraction, the extraction technique, where the plant was found, the visual attributes of the species (especially in the case of possible genetic variations) .. that way instead of having to sift through the 33 pages of information for a single quote of information, people could submit it to nen, and then the thread could be left for people to comment on the data found? but yeah just an idea anyways

I feel all this information would make a great document to make available to people for download too... would be a great little handbook to take with when out bushwalking with acacian intent

this thread has come so far! I am really glad I found it. once again nen thanks for getting me into this line of research. it really is very interesting and i really feel is an area which needs more people getting involved

 

[damon]

A lot of the content here is wiki worthy. Maybe it would be best to put some of this content there.

 

[Gowpen]

I have some seriously sticky caramel coloured toffee, from my extracts of A. Acuminata.
Can I try to re-x ...... It tastes very acrid and harsh when vapped.
Any ideas appreciated... (alas, I'm still chasing pure DMT)

 

[acacian]

what i usually do if i come out with a waxy gummy substance and i know there's spice in there, is I dissolve it in some warm shellite, and then make a ph 4 water solution and thoroughly mix it with the shellite, converting the dmt back to its salt form and pulling it into the water, and leaving behind any oils/fats in the shellite. then separate the water from the solvent, rebasify the it and pull again with shellite should come out pure white

how much do you reckon is there?

 

[Gowpen]

what i usually do if i come out with a waxy gummy substance and i know there's spice in there, is I dissolve it in some warm shellite, and then make a ph 4 water solution and thoroughly mix it with the shellite, converting the dmt back to its salt form and pulling it into the water, and leaving behind any oils/fats in the shellite. then separate the water from the solvent, rebasify the it and pull again with shellite should come out pure white

how much do you reckon is there?

Well Brickie, I have tried to vap it but something is just not right I feel. It leaves a nasty taste. I get a light headedness with very faint CEV, but not what Im after at all.... hahaha There is now about 2gms of toffee...
I will try your method to clean up, but Im so frustrated, thinking of Ping pong again...:thumb_dow ..... 1000kms 6 lts shellite and 1kg NaOH and I got nasty toffee...... This is stupid. It would be much easier to get a frontal labotomy and have done with it... Oh the pain of having intellegence.:thumb_up:

 

[acacian]

if you didn't defat though its very likely that its dmt and fats... one time i did an extraction on acacia phlebophylla phyllodes, and when the shelly cooled slightly all these fats dropped to the bottom, i assumed that the dmt was still in the shellite, and upon freeze precipitation i hardly recovered any crystal. it wasn't until i scraped up all the goo, defatted and then extracted again, that i recovered an excess gram of nice white spice.. if your using acuminata theres a high chance of there being dmt suspended in there. it wont taste like dmt at all really if its covered in fats

when you dissolve in warm shellite it will leave the goo at the bottom, thats the idea.. sometimes some of the spice stays in the goo so just wash it again and it should get all of it out...the dmt dissolves in the shellite. then you can try defatting that shellite with acidified water and then basify and pull again.. i wouldn't deem your extract as a failure yet by any means it sounds promising to me

all this will likely be an issue if you used phyllodes