Trying to improve Acacia information

[nen888]

anyhow..

..Allah knows best..

Hadith 133: In Sahih Muslim, the Holy Prophet, Nabi Mohammed (salal laahu alaihi wa sallam) is reported to have stated that,

“Without doubt, I am making the area in between the stony ground as a Haram within Madina and that the Acacia tree (within it) should not be cut. The animals within it should not be hunted.”

(Ref: Sahih Muslim, Musnad-e-Ahmed bin Hambal and Imam Tahaawi has recorded it as having been narrated by Hadrat Sayyiduna Sa’ad bin Abi Waqqaas)

[Alahazrat, Mujaddid, Ash Shah Imam Ahmad Raza Khan (Alaihir Rahmah)]

ﷺ

..the Al-Miqat Mosque, Saudi Arabia:
"The Shajarah or the tree after which this mosque was named was
an acacia tree at Dhul Hulaifa area under which the Prophet had sat. "
[http://www.taibanet.com/showthread.php?t=15476]


تحت الشجرة

 

[Endurance]

.. nen888, the time and effort you have put into compiling this extensive database is greatly appreciated.

Xantho awesome ideas! .. An Acacia Appreciation-style group or node, defined geogrpahically, sounds great! ... A systems approach would provide a valuable framework for acacia-related issues.. an all-encompassing understanding. Not restricting it to "tryptamine heads" could possibly allow all parties involved to learn something additional to their primary interests in acacias.

.. as for Seldom's philosophical question of "what can can people to do with the information that's here"; Well, personally I'd love to make a contribution to it.. I was thinking of a compartmentalization of the information.. and addition of academic literature regarding Acacias to defined sections/sub-sections. I'd be happy to search and organize literature related to species or sub-species variants. This could help provide a timeline of species-specific literature..

ie: (possibly something along these lines)

African Acacias

Acacia erioloba

Phytochemistry:
Smith, J., et al. 2020. The amazingness of African acacias. Journal of Acacia-ness 38: 157-8000

...with article attached to the thread.. Sub-headings are still uncertain, soo any suggestions are welcome.. Alse, if this would actually be beneficial?
"increasing the collective information" as nen888 stated soo nicely.

Thanks again to nen888, and everyone else who has contributed.

 

[--Shadow]

colour, I think the best place for what you are suggesting is the WIKI

 

[Endurance]

Greetings Acacians! Today I was gifted a few substantial pieces of Acacia erioloba bark from trees in the Kalahari. :

.. Awesome Xantho, while searching I came across this reference..

Barnes, R. D., Fagg, C.W., & Milton, S.J. 1997. Acacia erioloba: monograph and annotated bibliography. Tropical Forestry Papers (United Kingdom)

Edit: I'm having trouble attaching the above mentioned paper.. I'll try get it working

 

[xantho]

nen...the depth of information you offer up continues to astound me. I'd love to see a section devoted to the religious presence of acacias in the PDF. It seems like that knowledge and history could form a standalone book quite easily. Please let us know if we can be of any assistance in the compilation of any resources/compilations.

Thanks for the reference colour! I managed to track down a PDF link: Barnes, R. D., Fagg, C.W., & Milton, S.J. 1997. Acacia erioloba: monograph and annotated bibliography. Tropical Forestry Papers (United Kingdom).

84 pages - beastly! Just had a scan through it and there seems to be an incredible amount of information in there, not to mention a good number of gorgeous images.

I know there's a parallel discussion currently going on in the 'Should we have an Acacia sub-forum' thread but I'd like to take some initiative and suggest that colour and I (along with anyone else who would like to participate/contribute) take the lead on compiling/structuring all information pertaining to African acacias. I'd appreciate the input of nen and others in this regard. A geographical organizational structure seems to be a logical starting point. Information could be organized by species (location, chemistry, ethnobotanical uses, growth parameters, cultivation, ecology etc.) with additional sections for religion/history/folk info. I'm keen to hear what other think about this. All input welcome.

 

[nen888]

..appreciate your comments colour, and xantho...and your initiative..thank you..makes me glad..be great to see such organised info..
like the format colour (& the Journal of Acacia-ness)

regarding African Acacias, i would like to see more info on them come to the surface..i hear whispers of a lot more going on in terms of use than has been reported so far in the thread..
some of these african species are at the heart of core religions..

xantho wrote:

I'd love to see a section devoted to the religious presence of acacias in the PDF. It seems like that knowledge and history could form a standalone book quite easily. Please let us know if we can be of any assistance in the compilation of any resources/compilations.

..this is really my core work these days..the mystique of the acacia..the tree as a symbol of the greater..i will begin a group to co-ordinate this research project - the House of the Book of the Acacia (as mentioned way back) ..and you are welcome..(will be in touch)

..a thread pdf would particularly emphasise the numerous new species discovered and reported in this thread. which probably doubled or more the list of confirmed active species..as well as all the medicinal usage information that appeared in the course of research..

--Shadow's suggestion to colour of putting academic info in the wiki is a good start, though the sheer amount of data (if we look at phytochemistry of acacias generally) is probably of larger scope even than there..
i see the acacia research interest growing into it's own massive database in time..as i've said before, there's a lot more than dmt going on in the genus..it's vast and varied..
the thread seems to represent a period in history where a lot of this came together, thanks to all the contributors and interest..

thank you all of you for continuing the enthusiasm..
.



so, an afterthought on Seldom's question:

there are various possible mediums for this information, but what i think is interesting and novel about this thread is the medium itself..i.e. the thread..see this post on information theory way back in the thread..i originally imagined the thread lasting maybe 10 pages..but as it grew i realised the thread as a medium had more potential than had been utilised previously in internet forums..it's not a blog, it's a dialogue..it could be an artform..but in terms of information access, my question is how to take it beyond the linear form..which is analogous to 2-dimensional..how could a thread become 3 (or more) dimensional? like..'see through' if you get the analogy..

and the information is about information..certainly i feel like part of an acacia colonisation plot




..in the beginning was information..

it may be not a question of what one can do with information,
but what the information can do with you..

we (and the trees) are tools of information...

information grows


(& before the beginning? ..well, that's the spiritual domain.....beyond the thread)
.


keep it coming in acacians!
thank you all threaders..
.

 

[nen888]

ps..xantho

I know there's a parallel discussion currently going on in the 'Should we have an Acacia sub-forum' thread but I'd like to take some initiative and suggest that colour and I (along with anyone else who would like to participate/contribute) take the lead on compiling/structuring all information pertaining to African acacias. I'd appreciate the input of nen and others in this regard. A geographical organizational structure seems to be a logical starting point. Information could be organized by species (location, chemistry, ethnobotanical uses, growth parameters, cultivation, ecology etc.) with additional sections for religion/history/folk info. I'm keen to hear what other think about this. All input welcome.

this is a great sounding project and could be a pdf unto itself...
the wiki could contain either a link, or the complete info..i am happy to contribute

 

[--Shadow]

For A. Acuminata, does anyone know which maps to which name?

Acacia acuminata subsp. Acuminata
Acacia acuminata subsp. burkittii
Acacia acuminata var. ciliata
Acacia acuminata var. glaucescens
Acacia acuminata var. latifolia


A. Acuminata (small seed var)
A. Acuminata (narrow phyllode var)
A. Acuminata (broad phyllode var / typical var)
A. Acuminata (acuminata/burkittii var 1)
A. Acuminata (acuminata/burkittii var 2)

 

[Endurance]

.. nen888, in response to what you mentioned earlier in the thread regarding Acacia rigidula (specifically about the Clement et al. 2000 paper;

Clement et al. 2000 found 44 alkaloids in the species, including DMT, NMT,
N-methylphenethylamine, nicotine & traces of mescaline..this paper has been met with disbelief by some researchers..this was partly on the grounds that the authors would not respond to questions, but the questioners were on a very different line of the DEA political fence at the time..

..Soo reproducibility is often an issue in quantitative analysis.. and when authors aren't transparent enough or fail to answer questions, doubt arises..

i would really like to see some follow-up studies on this lovely looking one...

...A follow-up study (2014).. this time with interest in seeing whether Amphetamine (AMP) was present in Acacia rigidula extracts

Pawar, R.S., et al. 2014. Determination of selected biogenic amines in Acacia rigidula plant materials and dietary supplements using LC–MS/MS methods.Journal of Pharmaceutical and Biomedical Analysis 88: 457–466

 

[--Shadow]

Has there been any work done with the following?

A. alaticaulis
A. kulnurensis
A. terminalis

I'm pretty sure it's one of these 3 I have found.
Acacia and Mimosa Identification Thread - Collaborative Research Project - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

Currently doing a freeze\thaw on some branches that were 90% dead. I'll see if anything pulls from it if I don't get around to getting some reagent. If any precips, I'll do a TLC

 

[nen888]

For A. Acuminata, does anyone know which maps to which name?

Acacia acuminata subsp. Acuminata
Acacia acuminata subsp. burkittii
Acacia acuminata var. ciliata
Acacia acuminata var. glaucescens
Acacia acuminata var. latifolia


A. Acuminata (small seed var)
A. Acuminata (narrow phyllode var)
A. Acuminata (broad phyllode var / typical var)
A. Acuminata (acuminata/burkittii var 1)
A. Acuminata (acuminata/burkittii var 2)

they don't really map so well..the 2nd list is the current 'correct' one, while the top list is redundant..
var. glaucescens is a synonym for Acacia yorkrakinensis subsp. acrita
var. latifolia is actually Acacia conniana (Maslin) and var. ciliata is not recognised anymore as a valid name..

sorry i haven't had much time for IDs of late...keep up the good research..

.

and thanks for the update on A. rigidula colour...this is in line with earlier findings (Camp & Norvell, 1966 )
.


i feel like going back to african acacias when i get a chance..
,

 

[nen888]

^..a reminder of one rarely studied, for now..Acacia oerfota synon. or a variety of Acacia nubica, see p23, found in northern Sudan to contain dmt in the leaves..in northern Kenya and Ethiopia the leaves are sought by camels and goats, however "in western Sudan the obnoxious smell of crushed leaves deters browsing in Kordofan province" [http://herbaria.plants.ox.ac.uk/vfh/image/index.php?item=2033] suggesting sub-types..baboons eat the pods and foilage..Vachellia now of course
very lacking in images (if anyone in it's area is feeling photographic)

awaiting further african info with interest..

 

[meshman]

Hello all, Im sure im off topic and apologies for the jumping in but I've been searching for info on acacia dunnii in this thread and it doesn't pop up in search apart from vague references and I'm surprised. Is my search broke ? :surprised

 

[nen888]

hi meshman..everyone loves acacais here , so certainly on topic..

Acacia dunnii (Elephant Ear Wattle) is a very interesting species from northern Western Australia, the Kimberleys and the Northern Territory..it likes gravely soil..it has been introduced to west africa..
i have no specific medicinal or chemical information on it..perhaps someone does..

a great species to grow for it's distinctive phyllodes..

 

[--Shadow]

Those phyllodes look delicious! That plant would feed an entire herd.

Beautiful pic (and I worked out how to add them to the wiki now :d )

 

[meshman]

I've anecdotal evidence of it being a useful avenue to pursue. I was looking for some facts :d

 

[nen888]

I've anecdotal evidence of it being a useful avenue to pursue. I was looking for some facts :d

..well i was hoping you could shed some light on this....there are quite a few rumoured species out there, but yes this thread tries to keep the information solid..and with 1200 species it takes combined effort to keep track of all the information..so would be great if someone wants to share more info about this species..

 

[meshman]

It s a friend of a friend and it was a discussion at a party, but I remembered the elephant leaf thing and Googled the next day and found nothing. I'm seeking clarification, but I'm 99% sure its used and leaves are the source. I was in its favoured habitat at the time.

 

[nen888]

..thank you for this anecdote meshman...the species is widely cultivated, and the previous reference in the thread to it was in a list of acacias growing in the USA..
i've been told over the years of probably around 20 species which aren't included in the thread, simply because the info is not confirmed...i think the one rumoured species i mentioned was A. mangium (still awaiting confirmation)

certainly there's more known out there than in this thread so far..

i hope to see more pioneering work (like the valiant efforts of Primal Wisdom and timpeloop and others earlier in the thread - acacia research history) come to light..

i have noticed that information booms go in cycles...and it's been a little quiet since 2012..
.

 

[nen888]

afternote..

..as it is Navratri this week in India (& everywhere) - the festival of the goddess Durga, who destroys demons of impure mind -
i will note that i neglected to clarify previously that the medicinally and traditionally significant Indian tree Acacia suma (the 'Sami', see index) is now considered synonymous with Acacia (Senegalia) polyacantha..the African subspecies (A. polyacatha sub sp. campylacatha) was of course found to have small amounts of dimethyltryptamine in the leaves by Khalil & Elkheir in 1975 ..as previously mentioned Indian specimens are alkaloid positive..

..in Vedic traditions the Sami is considered an abode of Rudra, the storm avatar of Shiva...
and is also considered in places a physical incarnation of the goddess (Shakti)

Acacia suma is pictured below in southern India..
it is sometimes traditionally interchanged with 'Shami' (Prosopis cineraria , which also has medicinal use and ritual traditions..it contains the piperdine alkaloid spicigerine, which requires more research)
..it's shown below in a traditional Shami-Puja (a ritual of the 9th day of Navratri)
and the below that is Vana Durga, the protector of the forest and trees...don't mess with her!

may the goddess guide you, acacians..and all

Jai Ma! ॐ