Trying to improve Acacia information

[DreaMTripper]

It should definitely be finished sure. Just because it isnt on the confirmed list doesnt mean it wont contain any actives but hopes should be supended, however you dont know until you try..

Thanks for the info turtle.

 

[polmos]

It should definitely be finished sure. Just because it isnt on the confirmed list doesnt mean it wont contain any actives but hopes should be supended, however you dont know until you try..

I meant IS on the confirmed list...
I'm just more curious about my question about bitterness.

cheers.

 

[DreaMTripper]

Oh yeah haha misread it
Good question..

 

[acacian]

the bitterness can also depend on how much alkaloid is present and I'm certain that other non active compounds make it bitter as well.. I certainly wouldn't write it off because its not bitter. i was brewing some acacia yesterday and the liquid was mind blowingly bitter - there are alkaloids present but not enough to make a litre of liquid so bitter.. maybe nen could elaborate on that? could it be tannins or flavinoids or something like that?

other members may disagree but my advice in finding an active tree is to feel which tree really speaks to you the most and captures your attention.. i feel the trees that want to communicate with us kinda draw us in with their features

 

[nen888]

If the Bark\Phyllodes of an Acacia have no bitter taste,
is that a direct indication that there is no reasonable ammounts of Dmt\Alkaloids in it ?
Are there Acacia's that don't taste very bitter & still contain good ammounts of dmt ?

Reason being, some A. Victoriae trunk\branch bark was harvested (from a freshly fallen tree) dried\grinded & is soaking in a Vinegar\Water solution, but it does not taste bitter...

A. Victoriae IS on the list of confirmed species list on page #1, post #12 of this thread.
And was harvested after dry weather & was not flowering\seeding.
I estimate that the tree fell down about 4-5 days before harvesting & drying... (the inner bark was still red & sappy...)
Should the extraction still be completed to find out ?

Cheers.

..thanks for your 'theoretical' question polmos..
the theoretical answer is that bitterness is usually a very good indicator, though not an absolute rule (e.g. A. phlebophylla is not usually especially bitter)
..also, 4-5 days after natural falling is fine, is good...it's more like a few weeks later that alkaloids would be diminished..

looking forward with interest to Barrettium's A. victoriae findings, as well as yours if you proceed...i have theoetically heard of 2 successful tryptamine findings in the species..
.

 

[nen888]

..now, let's get esoteric!

that's where acacias lead me, anyway..

a (if not the) core Egyptian Acacia goddess.. (who i realized i hadn't gotten to yet)

..Iusaset.. (or Iusâas)
...the "grandmother of all deities"..
her name means "the great one who comes forth"..goddess of the Tree of Life..
her symbols are the horned vulture crown, the uraeus (cobra standing on it's tail) and the solar disk..she is one of the oldest Egyptian deities, the origins of her myth lost in the sands…in later changes of the myth she is described as Atum's shadow, sister, or wife..
she was also said later to occupy the space between Nut and Geb, when they are separated..

..in old writings there are two mentions of “the acacia of Iusâas-town north of Souls-of-Ôn”) [CT spell 660] ..there is a reference to a sacred tree of Iusâas ,in an address to a sacred tree..the tree, enjoined to “gather together those who are in the Abyss” and “assemble those who are in the celestial expanses,” [PT utterance 574]…
[Vandier, Jacques. 1964-66. “Iousâas et (Hathor)-Nébet-Hétépet.” Revue d’Égyptologie 16-18.]

Isis and Osiris were said to have emerged from the acacia tree of Iusaaset
..the tree of life, calling it the "tree in which life and death are enclosed."

 

[nen888]

..on the subject of life and death, we shouldn't forget that working with trees is working with living beings..and ecosystems..not simply 'alkaloids'..

attached are some sad images from southern NSW, Australia..

i have noticed an increasing number of posts in other threads describing taking of trunk bark from trees..not good!

below is a sad demonstration, again, of what the taking of bark does to acacias..

in the first image you can see a ridiculous and insensitive amount of bark taken from the trunk of an approximately 20 year old obtusifolia..estimated around a year ago..

the second image is the same tree, showing how all branches and phyllodes have died back as a result..the tree is now almost completely dead..
the taking of the trunk bark does not allow the plant to properly uptake nutrients required for it's survival..
i hope those still doing this eventually understand the harm they're doing..

 

[Seldom]

^ not to mention it destroys their sole defence against bacteriological infection. Please keep in mind, whoever reads this thread, that a number of fairly well known stands are watched over by people more than willing to cause harm to people they catch doing this type of damage.

it's a shame not all who engage with the trees have the right eyes to see their teaching. Many are called but few are chosen.


in relation to bitterness it's my experience that a better description of the taste which may indicate presence of alkaloids is astringency, 'sharpness', caustic-ness even, a 'wish i hadn't done that-edness'. I'm pretty sure most if not all phyllodes are bitter. a few of the bi-pinnate species are recorded to be utilised as a food source, and may not be so bitter, but i think technically they're called leaves anyway ..


good vibes to you guys, esp. acacian, you loveable rudderless hippy

 

[acacian]

good vibes to you too Seldom .. hope we can catch up again some day!

On another note, I thought I'd do a fairly detailed write up of some recent extractions and observations of late on a suspected form of Acacia Longifolia which I thought some may find interesting/helpful. Found around the Yarra ranges area, combined phyllode and twig extractions of the specimens have now yielded DMT and suspected other alkaloids on four separate tests … yield measurements need to be refined but seems around 0.2-0.3% yield ... possibly variable from tree to tree. see the extraction workspace for more details. interestingly one solvent pull (toluene or xylene) doesn't always get all the alkaloids out in my experience thus far with it.. I wonder whether there is another compound "trapping" the alkaloids

Three of the tests were performed on the same specimen at different times of year and a final test was performed on another specimen of the same "type", yielding very much the same extract but more crystaline than the first tree and lower in yield. two of the tests on the first tree were during periods of frequent and intense rain, and the yield seemed generally the same, though the feel of the extract differed (less bodyload than the material tested in wet weather/during flowering and seemed generally a bit weaker). The alkaloids were isolated as a yellow oil which ended up a dark brown putty when scraped.

on several occasions now bioassay has yielded powerful effects undeniably characteristic of DMT and likely NMT/beta carbolines - initial visionary effects generally subside after 10-15 mins and can be felt for the following hr..the overall feel of the extract was comparable to vaping DMT with rue alkaloids… there is a slow gentle presence behind it - a "quiet" spirit, unlike some of the more vocal trees i've experimented with (though still powerful in its own way in my own view) - perhaps this was what chocobeastie meant when he said the longifolia extracts he tried didn't have the "chutzpah of other trees". I suspect the extracts from this particular form are probably a large mix of other alkaloids and in conjunction with less dominant amounts of dmt - this makes for really interesting experiences in that the other alkaloids provide a strong space, and the presence of dmt brings the visionary element of that space to life.

The first tree tested, was initially suspected to be of some relation to maidenii or mucronata with some intriguing qualities not unlike obtusifolia, but after observing its characteristics further as well as the surrounding trees, I've concluded that it is most likely a variety of acacia longifolia, with probable mucronata genes… the stand of trees were variable in phyllode length and width, but undeniably of the same "type", all possessing the same common traits and there were regular mucronata subs. mucronata very close by. Different to acacia mucronata subs. longifolia but still seems likely to me that this tree is another form of hybrid between the two with more dominant longifolia traits- more experiments will be done when I find time

This particular form is interesting in that the phyllodes are less thick and leathery than the common forms of Longifolia. They also have irregular indents, often resinous edges and much more complex anastomisation of veins. The flower rods are longer and paler and and unlike the common variety of Longifolia occur only in bursts at ends of branches… this characteristic is strikingly similar to Acacia Mucronata subs. Mucronata which is well known to naturalise in the area. The pods are fairly straight with a very slight bend. Also interesting was the subjectively more intense effects of the extracts when harvested during flowering and rain, as usually rain is known to decrease yield.. maybe its a flowering thing?

photos below .. images 1-6 are of a slightly more longifolia looking variety and below that an example of a more longifolia x mucro intermediate. I intend to go out and take better quality photos at the location when I get a chance to help pinpoint its characteristics for i.d.. both trees generally of the same form though and both very active. the top one had lower yield than the bottom ones- but was only tested once compared to the bottom ones which was tested on three different occasions

 

[DreaMTripper]

Interesting stuff, talking of the betacarbolines,last night I was handling an a.longifolia
extract (slightly contaminated sandy brown tan crystals with white spots looks like the pics of harmaline/harmine freebase on the nexus wiki) and then noticed the pH papers I had touched had gone purple on the edges.
I checked my fingers and nothing was there so I shrugged it off until I got up from my bed for a joint.
As soon as I walked outside I looked around and was undeniably in a higher state of awareness. I panicked slightly hoping it wasnt 5meo as there was approximately 15mg on my fingers earlier so I put the joint out almost straight away and went back inside.
Everything was swaying or breathing slightly and my crumpled clothes resembled animal faces.
The lights were lowered and William Orbit played on pandora while everything was coated in the familiar purple green static.
I closed my eyes to see symbols and glypths passing by and the usual abstract two dimensional HD brightly coloured images. This was accompanied by a warm feeling and introspection that lasted roughly 30 mins.
In my work I use an alcohol spray cleaner that mustve stayed on my fingers so some extract mustve passed into my body via the alcohol..

 

[acacian]

interesting report! sounds like the melbourne wildlife is reaching out at the moment few people have been having success with trees lately around the area. what made you think it might be 5 meo? also could you describe the characteristics of the longifolia you used? I have always loved the vibe of longifolia I am glad I have finally found a variety of it that is active.. further more I love mucronata too and it is looking like an increasingly good alkaloid candidate for victorians

 

[DreaMTripper]

Indeed it is! It was just a fleeting fear that it was 5meo and that I could be in for a rough ride but it clearly wasnt. I will sample some again in a more controlled manner soon I'd like to see how it develops it felt like the plants in the garden were looking at me! That was 'first alert'

The a.longifolia tree is full grown, 15ft ish it had leathery tough dark green phyllodes some with red tips. Slightly rounded tips. Stems were mainly green with red. Note not one insect was found among the phyllodes or stems.

Regarding solubility it is clear now that the extract is moderately soluble in toluene and slightly soluble in basic water. Strong suspicion its harmine/harmaline with dmt. Ready made pharmahuasca. Or longihuasca?
Even 300ml wont dissolve it all, after a repull on the basic water and a rigorous shaking now white substance is between the NP and water. The same structure as previous but now devoid of impurities. Hopefully tomorow will be a hot day!

 

[nen888]

..thanks again acacian..
there are cases of A. longifolia being mis-identified as A. obtusifolia (with similar results) ..somewhere earlier in the thread was a photo of longifolia being sold as obtusifolia..

certainly, a few varieties of A. longifolia are around 0.4-5% DMT/tryptamines..
.


for the esoterically inclined, i have some cool info from India and China to get into soon...as i research the book..

back soon..
.

 

[nen888]

..and DreaMTripper, sounds nice ...could well be mainly nmt (perhaps with betacrabs)
.

 

[nen888]

..and Seldom..glad you're still here ..albeit seldomly ..
respect..

 

[acacian]

I'm fairly certain its not obtusifolia ... or at least the normal variety. it doesn't have blunt tips and the phyllodes are much more papery. lacking basal gland on the majority of phyllodes. though it does have some intriguing qualities similar to obtuse.. I thought it looked closer to longifolia though, what do you think? definitely seems to be some mucronata genes in there as the phyllodes grow very similarly along the stem close together and erect.. there were mucronata just near it too. interesting tree anyways whatever it is and very nice extract

 

[nen888]

^..i'd say it's longifolia (a variety of) ...it's not obtusifolia (the phyllodes are not leathery or blunt) and it's not mucronata (the phyllodes are too large and not mucronate enough [see botanical terms, index]) ..
when did it flower?

 

[nen888]

Do yellow dead phyllodes/leaves retain alkaloids, after constant rain? Suspected pycantha or saligna..

Also, what are the green balls present now on a.longifolia subsp.longifolia while seeding?

..after a week or so of rain they're fine..prolonged will leach them...but as mentioned way back, fallen brown phyllodes are good (if it's been mostly dry) ..the most plant friendly approach, pioneered years ago by a few acacian sisters..

and the green balls are insect Galls..as observed by TurtleWithWings..
wasps are the usual culprits ..

 

[aussietripper]

Gday everyone i went for a bush walk yesterday and have some photos that i need some help with to identify if they are acacias and what kind
Thanks to anyone that can help me identify these

 

[aussietripper]

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