tryptophan + maoi = serotonin syndrome ?

[endlessness]

is MAOI interaction an issue only with SSRI´s or stuff like MDMA and the possible serotonin syndrome, and with tyramine and possible hypertensive crisis..

Or can tryptophan containing food + MAOI also be a bad combination?

(MAOI+tyramine is generally a problem only for ireversible MAOIs, not for reversible MAOIs such as b-carbolines.. what about with tryptophan, also an issue only with irreversible MAOIs or not an issue at all ? )

 

[acolon_5]

I haven't ever heard of serious food interactions with RIMA's.

Not saying there aren't any, just haven't ever heard anyones had a problem with say, Caapi or Rue and food.

 

[endlessness]

me neither, at least any trustable report..

the thing is, this ´serotonin syndrome´ definition got popularized.. and then there is a certain tendency of people to to self-diagnose. Put this together with the fact that some people simply have bad trips and some quite common effects (trembling, shaking, whatever), then it happens that some will say ´I had a serotonin syndrome´.. someone talked with me about this the other day, saying he had a serotonin syndrome during a trip, after having eaten tryptophan containing food before, and it just sounded very odd to me...

 

[polytrip]

Just the idea that you might have this serotonin syndrome, when you're tripping can causse a very unpleasant experience. I once fell on my face during an acid trip, and the thought that it might have caused some medical trauma so maybe the very next moment i could maybe become paralized forever or become permanently blind, caused a few very stressfull minutes. So i take the food guidelines seriously just so i don't have to worry about it and it will be all much more pleasant.
This will also diminish initial feelings of nausea etc.
All these guidelines are meant to be on the safe side as much as possible, just like with warning labels on pharmaceuticals. When taking 50 aspirines would kill you, the company will warn you not to take more then 20 or something. Still a good advice i would say.

 

[40oztofreedom]

I had actually gone to the hospital for a "serotonin syndrome" or so it was seemingly diagnosed

I was on prescribed SSRI's and an Amphetamine (adderall) for a depressive disorder about 6 years ago. I was on a very high dosage of the SSRI, and I had no knowledge of the medications that I was on, and what I should or should not take while on it. After a few months of my daily adderall, I was feeling long term exhaustion effects. Loss of weight, and my depression at the time was just getting worse because of it.

I had gone to GNC to look for a somewhat alternative vitamin or pill that would balance my body and mental chemistry to make me feel better. I walked in and told a worker about being exhuasted and depressed all the time, but thought nothing of the medications I was on at the time. He reccommended 5-HTP (5-Hydroxy-Tryptophan) pills and said it boosted serotonin levels and made you feel better. I thought nothing of it and bought them.

I had gone home and taken the reccomended 100mg. For awhile I felt okay but later in the night watching TV I was falling in and out of sleep. In the midst of that I had felt like I was being stuck by lightining of sorts. I heard a constant loud crashing screaming in my ears. I started uncontrollably screaming, shaking, and convulsing.

I went to the hospital assuming I had some sort of random seizure. The doctor never really gave me a straight answer. By my parents had told them about the medications and the pills and said there was probably some sort of bad chemical reaction that messed with my serotonin levels. So am assuming after my research that it was very likely a serotonin syndrome, due to high levels of SSRI's and 5-HTP in my system that did something.

 

[prottel]

I would be a bit careful with tyramine and a maoi, such as caapi. Even though it is not common to have any reaction, it is probably possible. Especially, with things like aged cheese.

Another thing you might want to be careful with is drinking too much coffee, yerba mate and/or green tea close to a session. Have heard that it can potentiate the maoi manyfolds, perhaps 10-20+ times, possibly causing a hypotensive crisis.

Also, don't take caapi when you are on medication that increases the production of noradrenaline, such as Mianserin(Bolvidon, Norval, and Tolvon). Mianserin is a weak inhibitor of norepinephrine reuptake and strongly stimulates the release of norepinephrine.
When you combine this with an mao-a, such as caapi, it blocks the destruction of noradrenaline, causing a really bad noradrenaline spike.

Other noradrenaline reuptake inhibitors are:
Strattera, Edronax, Vivalan, Ludiomil, Nortrilen, Wellbutrin.

My girlfriend had a nasty experience with this combo. Took tolvon to sleep on the night before ayahuasca. Then during ayahuasca, her heart started beating harder and harder. Blood pressure over 200/100 - 100 bpm at times. Convulsions, really bad chest pains, tingling all over the body, almost fainting.

So, be especially careful with medications you take, but also watch out for the foods that contains a lot of tyramine. But generally, you can eat most things. Besides, there seems to be some people that are more susceptible to tyramine than others.