Two questions on FASA

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

First, is it alright to filter through a coffee filter to collect like with certain other plants alkaloids or will it gum up and stick to the filter like dmt and bufo citrate?

Second, if I used acetone with completely dissolved fumaric acid will I need to rinse the excess acid from the crystals? Being that the acid is in solution and I'm diluting it by adding to more acetone it should stay in solution rather than precipitate, but I'm not sure.

Thank you all in advance.

 

[!Xabbu]

Hey, have only used FASA twice with limonene aaaand must say that it was a cloudy precip that I let settle on the bottom/sides of my container a day or two and then filtered off the limonene with a coffee filter. Yes, there were some furmarates dissolved in the filter.

EDIT: I have used FASI instead of FASA.. FASIsopropylalcohol to go with Limonene FASAcetano with Xylene​

Salting DMT out of d-limonene​

Your second point is also interesting to me. I guess that the fumaric acid stays bound to the acetone otherwise there would be precip when you add FASA to clean nonpolar also which isn't the case.

I'm not that experienced with the matter.

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

Hm. Well my friend has a huge cloud of fumarates that have almost completely settled but seems to be floating in place in about 10mL acetone now. He just doesn't know how he can eliminate the remaining acetone without evaporating since seems to have settled as much as it will.

Kind of frustrating for him but he's going to give it a few hours and see if it doesn't settle more. It looks like a damn snow globe, it's beautiful.

 

[!Xabbu]

Could you please explain to me why you have the furmarates sitting in Acetone ?
Thought you salted Alkaloids out of nonpolar with FASA, what have you done or what do you want to do ?
Is the Acetone the Furmarates are sitting in already "washing" Acetone ?

ANYHOW, you should be able to filter this fine as the acetone passes through the filter fast

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

He extracted a 5:4 bark:base mix with 3 acetone pulls, filtered and salted the acetone with fumaric acid.

Took him less than an hour and a half and now he has beautiful white crystals suspended in the remaining acetone.

He knows that acetone will filter fine but the crystals seems to be too fine and just get caught in the filter making removal nearly impossible. He has decanted as much as he could without loss but now has a suspension of crystal in a few mL of acetone.

 

[!Xabbu]

Kind of a dry tek right ?
So you want furmarates right ? else you would have evaporated the acetone right away or don't I still get it ?

You could instead of filtering let the acetone evaporate and wash the excess of fumaric acid off with some IPA ?

Or is your Acetone dirty so that this is a cleanup step too ?

Another way would be to let all evaporate and base bach to fresh nonpolar if you have some and either freeze prezip for freebase crystals or evap or salt again with just enough FASA so that when you add more FASA there is no more prezip happening..

I guess you knew all I said already..

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

Don't have time to explain it all again, read my above post. No clean up, just removing the fumarates with as little loss as possible.

 

[!Xabbu]

Sorry, I have no clue what you have done and why you are where you are now which seems worth knowing to me..

Sure, when you have unbound fumaric acid, you could wash it away or simply dose a little higher as furmaric acid doesn't hurt..

Peace

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

Extracted from mixture with acetone, filtered out sediment, salted mixture and now I am at the point that I need to find the best way to remove the precipitated salts. Don't know how to put it simpler.

Anyone else?

 

[arcologist]

Just use a regular coffee filter (or two layered) to collect the crystals, then once the filter is drained, pour more (clean) acetone through the filter to remove any remaining fumaric acid. Wait for the filter to totally dry and the fumarates should come off easily and cleanly (assuming you have crystals and not a fumarate goo (i.e. with NMT)).

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

They are crystals. how would you suggest I dry the filter?

Thank you for answering!

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

Well my friend was able to get his beautiful white fumarates out of solution without an issue, thank you arcologist!

Now it's time to freebase them and then the trial.

EDIT: So I guess something went wrong somewhere.. He had a ton of white crystals that when pressed and dried only ended up weighing about... 50mg. Kind of surprising but it's pure white at least and only from about 20g of ACRB, which seems rather disappointing.

Any thoughts?

 

[DreaMTripper]

Seems about right from 20g and with such a small extraction there is no room for error and you can easy lose half along the way through the various stages..

I have a question, when using excess sod.carb to freebase such as in the blab tek is it possible for the spice to get trapped in the drying crystalized sodium carbonate making it impossible to extract them with acetone?

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

I'd imagine that it is possible since it is possible to trap solvents and impurities while forming crystals in the salt form. I don't know the specific tek that you speak of but if you crush the freebase:carbonate mix, stir and allow to settle in solution it should solve the issue, provided that the reaction has been completed.

Well either way he was looking for a 1% yield and .25% is pretty shitty compared to the results he gets with bufo. Oh well, maybe xylene will pull more than the acetone did, although the acetone pulled clear by the final time.

Turns out that whatever he got was either not enough to do anything or inactive. Double sucks.

 

[arcologist]

Are you smoking fumarates? They won't smoke the same way freebase will, you need to either insufflate, or take with an MAOI.

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

It was based, sadly nothing though.

 

[JesusBuiltMyHotRod]

So another question.. Is there any reason one can not add FA (not FASA) to a solution a few mg or granules at a time while watching for the precipitation to stop? My friend figures that the most he would have to do is stir the solution slightly right before the addition, any thoughts?

Also, could one freebase fumarates by adding to water and adding 10% ammonia to dissolved fumarates in an adaptation of Le Junk's famous method? I don't see why he couldn't do that, if the base collects on the stir rod in a similar fashion couldn't one theoretically separate the different alkaloids/contaminants based on the pKa of said molecule and the pH of the water? If so I think it could possibly yield more due to lack of filter loss.