Uncooked crudo ayahuasca

[northape]

sorry for the OT, i know it says Upper Amazon but does it say anything about Shipibo-Conibo as well?

Hmm, I don't think so. It was mostly about the Secoya and Waorani people. Many tribes use ayahuasca, and some of them have just as deep a tradition as the Shipibo-Conibo.
And when it comes to the Secoya, aya for them is much more than medicine. Just reading how they used it before Europeans came is worth it. These people are true psychonauts with a highly developed technology to go very deep. Read this thread about it if you haven't already:

A YEAR OF JUNGLE STEWING...

it's funny....time has certainly passed and life has certainly changed...but in my new state of being, it all seems like yesterday. literally. the Seicoya elders have a strong belief that one should strive with great effort to be the EMBODIMENT of their journeys...not the ORATOR. that to talk...

forum.dmt-nexus.me

 

[Harlequin]

The basic problem with CWE is how much liquid you need to ingest, and the reduction step makes CWE obsolete.
Drinking liters of a mild ayahuasca brew would never bring you to the same places that a concentrated tea can. That's just the pharmacokinetics of it.
Maybe I lack some experience with it, but that's my firm belief at this point. The preparation method was perfected during the last few thousand years, and if cold brew could get you there, no one would cook and reduce the tea. So, you get very different medicine with the same material, depending on the preparation method used.

I wouldn't say apurar it renders a cold water extraction "obsolete". Because, if you take a look at the pharmacokinetics, you'll see that some actives are most soluble in colder than hotter water.
Therefore I don't think such brews are as weak as you might think.
Perhaps instead of a small cup, things change a bit to a bigger cup, or a couple of those at the very most, but I'm sure it tastes way better.

In the last decades, Ayahuasca has been "tamed", to the likes of the people of the big cities, and huge centers around the planet. TBH, the spread of the brew around the planet is aligned with the wishes of the brew itself, therefore I don't find it a bad thing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of fermented Ayahuasca, but a fresh cold water brew, might be one answer for people who can't stand the taste of it, specially after making it cold, for it numbens the flavor buds in your tongue and nose.

I think we lose (some) actives during the reduction process, not too much, its just another category of brewing. Perhaps a bit unusual, but surely very valid.

Had to use back again my old Nick. Account recovered, big thanks for the Staff!!!

Har (Original)

 

[Sakkadelic]

I think if fresh plant material is used as opposed to dried, CWE is likely to be quite effective and you wouldn't need too much water. Fresh Chacruna or Chaliponga can be easily mashed into a pulp and caapi can be thoroughly pounded. The significant amount of water in fresh plant material probably makes the alkaloid transfer easier. Any extraction inefficiencies can be accounted for by moar plant material.

 

[Harlequin]

I think if fresh plant material is used as opposed to dried, CWE is likely to be quite effective and you wouldn't need too much water. Fresh Chacruna or Chaliponga can be easily mashed into a pulp and caapi can be thoroughly pounded. The significant amount of water in fresh plant material probably makes the alkaloid transfer easier. Any extraction inefficiencies can be accounted for by moar plant material.

I never tried this with fresh materials because I never felt like it would be such a good idea, at least not just as much as with dried material.
Because by capillarity, the dried material forces the water through itself, hence washing every part of the plant, and permeating everything, the water becomes the medium, and sort of "washes" the actives very effectively. Very little remains in the plant matter after a night in the fridge. During winter, I got to see a lot of crystal blades on a very cold day, in some unfiltered Mimosa overnight fridge extraction (water).
I fear the fresh material will lack the capilar effect, and without a little agitation (temperature), the alkaloidal transfer might not be as effective as with the dried material, but, some kinds of chacruna are way stronger than others, chaliponga is very strong by itself, I believe (no experience with that one, so far), so I wouldn't doubt it could simply work anyways. The plants themselves are loaded with their own acids, I think its a very cool experiment to make, for whose lucky enough to get fresh materials, of course!


Har

 

[blig-blug]

It's not traditional, but in the case of mimosa/jurema a CWE seems to work as well as boiling. Maybe preserving yuremamine (and perhaps other alkaloids) compensates a less efficient extraction.

some actives are most soluble in colder than hotter water.

Is this the case? Which ones?

 

[northape]

I wouldn't say apurar it renders a cold water extraction "obsolete". Because, if you take a look at the pharmacokinetics, you'll see that some actives are most soluble in colder than hotter water.
Therefore I don't think such brews are as weak as you might think.
Perhaps instead of a small cup, things change a bit to a bigger cup, or a couple of those at the very most, but I'm sure it tastes way better.

In the last decades, Ayahuasca has been "tamed", to the likes of the people of the big cities, and huge centers around the planet. TBH, the spread of the brew around the planet is aligned with the wishes of the brew itself, therefore I don't find it a bad thing.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of fermented Ayahuasca, but a fresh cold water brew, might be one answer for people who can't stand the taste of it, specially after making it cold, for it numbens the flavor buds in your tongue and nose.

I think we lose (some) actives during the reduction process, not too much, its just another category of brewing. Perhaps a bit unusual, but surely very valid.

Had to use back again my old Nick. Account recovered, big thanks for the Staff!!!

Har (Original)

Sorry for my poor wording. I meant that reducing cold water extraction makes it no different from just cooking ayahuasca. CWE still has its place, and I feel live plants would work the best. It becomes more about the spirit of the plant rather than alkaloids that way.

I still hold my position that drinking lots of fluid is unadvisable for a deep ayahuasca experience. You are not supposed to drink water during ayahuasca, as you know. You need as concentrated a brew in as little liquid as possible. That is why there are tales of syrup brew in the jungle, where a teaspoon could obliterate you.

We have no idea what ayahuasca wants, by the way. It is all human stories. Yes, it is all over the place in all possible forms, but it could change overnight. The state of the world and Amazon is dire, and we require all the help. Do not focus on the differences in preparation. Find what works for you and sing with the plants.

May healing come your way