Understanding DMT

[DeltaSpice]

Some thing has been bugging me and I'm trying to understand it but its a mystery at the moment.
I just did some Damiana Changa ,4 hits in a mullein joint.
Lay down eyes closed as usual . Hoping to see some thing amazing.
Straight away things came in to view, so I reached to my right and grabbed my "Mindfold".
Its a blindfold with a cushioned area that lets you have total darkness eyes open or closed. Recommended to me by an amazing Nexus member.
So eyes still closed I donned the Mindfold .
I can see fine lines making patterns in the darkness . Then God code appears, in neon.
I then open my eyes and watch the exact same patterns and God code.
Eyes open , eyes closed, I repeat over and over , yet I'm witnessing the same thing.
I've experienced this many times and I'm perplexed at how I can see the same thing with my eyes open or closed.
This time some thing told me that the answer was within myself.
I'm really trying to figure this out.
If my eyes are closed , then it could be in my imagination but eyes open , it cannot be imagination.
Could it be some thing projecting from within me to the outside through my eyes?
We can all see things on DMT eyes open and eyes closed but to see the exact same thing.
This is only able to occur in total darkness I think.
Any thoughts?

 

[○]

Always there, always moving, always still; it's there
This moment never dies, it's all there is
Unchained being ever abides
Awareness to see the thin-veiled whispers of the eternal
Inside, outside, all around, no discernible difference.

You are the imagination of yourself,
Ineffability manifesting endlessly, all the way down; all the way up
Pastel skys dripping with jeweled rivers, bleeding through​

 

[nexusdisciple]

Any thoughts?

I think trying to understand DMT is pretty much a fruitless undertaking. It is important to take time to integrate an experience, but if my work with the molecule has taught me one thing with any sort of certainty it is that DMT invokes many many questions about oneself and the physical world while providing few if any real answers. A true understanding on the experience seems almost impossible to me. How do you explain/understand something that can be ineffable?

 

[benzyme]

Fibonacci sequences in the synaptic fields.
don't ask me to elaborate, I'm too lazy.

 

[nexusdisciple]

Fibonacci sequences in the synaptic fields.
don't ask me to elaborate, I'm too lazy.

Bunch of maths going on in my brain? Explains all the pretty fractals at least.

 

[Enoon]

Stimulation of the nerves the retina or the visual cortex of the brain would produce this effect - you seeing something even though there is no input from the outside, or even overlaying stuff over actual input. Out brain isn't like a camera-obscura with a lense (the eye) and then an image at the back of the box. There's a lot more going on in there - the visual information gets processed and analyzed, interpreted and fit into our known world. We don't 'see' the input directly, we consciously see only what our brain makes of this visual input. Which could be quite different to what is actually there, depending on our brain function at the time. If there is no input at all - like eyes closed or using a mindfold your brain might think it's still receiving input due to the psychedelic disrupting its normal functioning. So you see things that are produced by your own brain. Sometimes very coherent things, sometimes structures, sometimes just random flashes of colors and shapes.

 

[DeltaSpice]

Stimulation of the nerves the retina or the visual cortex of the brain would produce this effect - you seeing something even though there is no input from the outside, or even overlaying stuff over actual input. Out brain isn't like a camera-obscura with a lense (the eye) and then an image at the back of the box. There's a lot more going on in there - the visual information gets processed and analyzed, interpreted and fit into our known world. We don't 'see' the input directly, we consciously see only what our brain makes of this visual input. Which could be quite different to what is actually there, depending on our brain function at the time. If there is no input at all - like eyes closed or using a mindfold your brain might think it's still receiving input due to the psychedelic disrupting its normal functioning. So you see things that are produced by your own brain. Sometimes very coherent things, sometimes structures, sometimes just random flashes of colors and shapes.

Thanks for that

 

[Grizzly Adams]

Stimulation of the nerves the retina or the visual cortex of the brain would produce this effect - you seeing something even though there is no input from the outside, or even overlaying stuff over actual input. Out brain isn't like a camera-obscura with a lense (the eye) and then an image at the back of the box. There's a lot more going on in there - the visual information gets processed and analyzed, interpreted and fit into our known world. We don't 'see' the input directly, we consciously see only what our brain makes of this visual input. Which could be quite different to what is actually there, depending on our brain function at the time. If there is no input at all - like eyes closed or using a mindfold your brain might think it's still receiving input due to the psychedelic disrupting its normal functioning. So you see things that are produced by your own brain. Sometimes very coherent things, sometimes structures, sometimes just random flashes of colors and shapes.

Thanks for that explanation.

 

[Global]

I actually wrote a bit about this when I first started getting into DMT. It seemed like my eyes were projectors, and when I closed my eyes, I would get a real close up view, but then I came to realize that keeping my eyes open or closed resulted in the same depth of field in regards to the objects/entities and their spatial relationships to me. It seems that by blocking out the extra sensory information by closing ones eyes, that the visions can take on a more saturated as opposed to translucent quality, but ultimately eyes open or closed, the visions behave pretty much the same. They will even circumvent bulky objects in the environment, even with eyes closed, so you can't actually see where the items are, but they know, and will often work their way around them.

 

[DeltaSpice]

Stimulation of the nerves the retina or the visual cortex of the brain would produce this effect - you seeing something even though there is no input from the outside, or even overlaying stuff over actual input. Out brain isn't like a camera-obscura with a lense (the eye) and then an image at the back of the box. There's a lot more going on in there - the visual information gets processed and analyzed, interpreted and fit into our known world. We don't 'see' the input directly, we consciously see only what our brain makes of this visual input. Which could be quite different to what is actually there, depending on our brain function at the time. If there is no input at all - like eyes closed or using a mindfold your brain might think it's still receiving input due to the psychedelic disrupting its normal functioning. So you see things that are produced by your own brain. Sometimes very coherent things, sometimes structures, sometimes just random flashes of colors and shapes.

Is there a chance that on DMT we are seeing things that are there but normally out of our field of vision?
Instead of it being caused by a just a scrambled brain

 

[Enoon]

Is there a chance that on DMT we are seeing things that are there but normally out of our field of vision?
Instead of it being caused by a just a scrambled brain

Let's take a look at that question.

If you are wearing a mindfold or closing your eyes in general very little "light" will penetrate and be received at your eyes. With light I'm refering to electro-magnetic waves (or photons) within a certain frequency range, which we call visible light. We call it visible because the receptors in our eyes physically and chemically respond to the event of a photon in this frequency range hitting it - and thus we register it.

Now I'm no neurologist or physician so I'd have to look it up to be certain, but I'm pretty sure our eyes can not be made to see other types of radiation, i.e. they will not respond to photons of other frequencies entering the eyes. Other frequencies that could possibly pass the eye-lid or the mindfold, such as radio-waves, microwaves, infra-red...

If we believe that the eyes cannot "see" these other frequencies then we must conclude that we are not seeing with our eyes the images that psychedelics assist us in seeing.

We could still speculate that perhaps our brain is being stimulated from an outside source, an input that we have not yet come to understand and that the psychedelics help somehow receive this information and our brain transforms this information to visual information for us to "see". But this would be wild speculation and there is nothing to base this on, except for our desire for there to be more than just ourselves at work. Still, it's interesting to muse.

 

[desal]

eyes open , it cannot be imagination.

I would question this statement some more. What does it mean for something to be imagined? 100% created by the mind without any outside input / basis in reality I think is the general consensus?

The way you see and experience the world around you, is a product of the mind and body. It's all constructed the way we see it, by our mind. So when we say imaginary, do we mean "material" / "immaterial" ?

I do not mean to suggest that anything is imagination, the visuals are the effect of the DMT, and most psychedelics do this. A transparent / translucent pattern overlayed onto the vision, whether eyes are open or closed. We can watch them take whatever input the eyes are working with, and modify it. Usually with eyes closed, "visuals" lack any concrete input, they are free to construct their own worlds. With eyes open, visuals usually are forced to work with whatever light input is already present, causing them to morph and distort "reality" around you. Just because you "see" something with eyes open does not necessarily mean it is "real" or "imaginary". I don't mean to nitpick over semantics though, just wondering if there is a more accurate term we could use to maybe get closer to the heart of the question.

"It was all a dream" - Notorious B.I.G.

and:

"Vision is mind, mind is empty, emptiness is clear light, clear light is union, union is great bliss." Dawa Gyaltsen -- Heart teaching. All that is seen / experienced is done so in the mind. And if you look for a / the mind, you will find that the mind is empty. and If you deeply inspect this emptiness, you will see that this emptiness is not just vast openness, but there is also an awareness of said openness, a light in the darkness. Emptiness is the clear light, Clear, meaning Open, and Light, meaning Aware, Clear light is the union of openness and awareness, spacious awareness, our true nature. Recognizing our union with this Clear Light is and brings GREAT BLISS!

If you subscribe to the buddhist teachings of dawa gyaltsen

 

[DeltaSpice]

Is there a chance that on DMT we are seeing things that are there but normally out of our field of vision?
Instead of it being caused by a just a scrambled brain

Let's take a look at that question.

If you are wearing a mindfold or closing your eyes in general very little "light" will penetrate and be received at your eyes. With light I'm refering to electro-magnetic waves (or photons) within a certain frequency range, which we call visible light. We call it visible because the receptors in our eyes physically and chemically respond to the event of a photon in this frequency range hitting it - and thus we register it.

Now I'm no neurologist or physician so I'd have to look it up to be certain, but I'm pretty sure our eyes can not be made to see other types of radiation, i.e. they will not respond to photons of other frequencies entering the eyes. Other frequencies that could possibly pass the eye-lid or the mindfold, such as radio-waves, microwaves, infra-red...

If we believe that the eyes cannot "see" these other frequencies then we must conclude that we are not seeing with our eyes the images that psychedelics assist us in seeing.

We could still speculate that perhaps our brain is being stimulated from an outside source, an input that we have not yet come to understand and that the psychedelics help somehow receive this information and our brain transforms this information to visual information for us to "see". But this would be wild speculation and there is nothing to base this on, except for our desire for there to be more than just ourselves at work. Still, it's interesting to muse.

Enoon can an I ask a personal question?
Your posts are very logical but having experienced Hyperspace and Entities (I'm assuming you have)
What are your personal beliefs as to what's going on .
How much of what goes on with DMT is just the brain effected by DMT ,is there some thing else going on, some thing not of this world.
Personally I feel that patterns, God code and such could be no more than psychedelics effecting the brain.
However when it comes to breaking through with foreign sights, sounds and meeting other beings, for me that's not a chemical reaction that's a whole new ball game.

 

[desal]

Is there a chance that on DMT we are seeing things that are there but normally out of our field of vision?
Instead of it being caused by a just a scrambled brain

Let's take a look at that question.

If you are wearing a mindfold or closing your eyes in general very little "light" will penetrate and be received at your eyes. With light I'm refering to electro-magnetic waves (or photons) within a certain frequency range, which we call visible light. We call it visible because the receptors in our eyes physically and chemically respond to the event of a photon in this frequency range hitting it - and thus we register it.

Now I'm no neurologist or physician so I'd have to look it up to be certain, but I'm pretty sure our eyes can not be made to see other types of radiation, i.e. they will not respond to photons of other frequencies entering the eyes. Other frequencies that could possibly pass the eye-lid or the mindfold, such as radio-waves, microwaves, infra-red...

If we believe that the eyes cannot "see" these other frequencies then we must conclude that we are not seeing with our eyes the images that psychedelics assist us in seeing.

We could still speculate that perhaps our brain is being stimulated from an outside source, an input that we have not yet come to understand and that the psychedelics help somehow receive this information and our brain transforms this information to visual information for us to "see". But this would be wild speculation and there is nothing to base this on, except for our desire for there to be more than just ourselves at work. Still, it's interesting to muse.

Enoon can an I ask a personal question?
Your posts are very logical but having experienced Hyperspace and Entities (I'm assuming you have)
What are your personal beliefs as to what's going on .
How much of what goes on with DMT is just the brain effected by DMT ,is there some thing else going on, some thing not of this world.
Personally I feel that patterns, God code and such could be no more than psychedelics effecting the brain.
However when it comes to breaking through with foreign sights, sounds and meeting other beings, for me that's not a chemical reaction that's a whole new ball game.

You didnt ask me but im gonna say: anything is possible, but they have done studies showing that DMT affects the parts of the brain responsible for feeling a sense of familiarity, and forming entities, so it is entirely possible that it is just the chemical reaction on all the different locations in the brain, DMT gets around.

or it could be some real aliens.

 

[DeltaSpice]

Is there a chance that on DMT we are seeing things that are there but normally out of our field of vision?
Instead of it being caused by a just a scrambled brain

Let's take a look at that question.

If you are wearing a mindfold or closing your eyes in general very little "light" will penetrate and be received at your eyes. With light I'm refering to electro-magnetic waves (or photons) within a certain frequency range, which we call visible light. We call it visible because the receptors in our eyes physically and chemically respond to the event of a photon in this frequency range hitting it - and thus we register it.

Now I'm no neurologist or physician so I'd have to look it up to be certain, but I'm pretty sure our eyes can not be made to see other types of radiation, i.e. they will not respond to photons of other frequencies entering the eyes. Other frequencies that could possibly pass the eye-lid or the mindfold, such as radio-waves, microwaves, infra-red...

If we believe that the eyes cannot "see" these other frequencies then we must conclude that we are not seeing with our eyes the images that psychedelics assist us in seeing.

We could still speculate that perhaps our brain is being stimulated from an outside source, an input that we have not yet come to understand and that the psychedelics help somehow receive this information and our brain transforms this information to visual information for us to "see". But this would be wild speculation and there is nothing to base this on, except for our desire for there to be more than just ourselves at work. Still, it's interesting to muse.

Enoon can an I ask a personal question?
Your posts are very logical but having experienced Hyperspace and Entities (I'm assuming you have)
What are your personal beliefs as to what's going on .
How much of what goes on with DMT is just the brain effected by DMT ,is there some thing else going on, some thing not of this world.
Personally I feel that patterns, God code and such could be no more than psychedelics effecting the brain.
However when it comes to breaking through with foreign sights, sounds and meeting other beings, for me that's not a chemical reaction that's a whole new ball game.

You didnt ask me but im gonna say: anything is possible, but they have done studies showing that DMT affects the parts of the brain responsible for feeling a sense of familiarity, and forming entities, so it is entirely possible that it is just the chemical reaction on all the different locations in the brain, DMT gets around.

or it could be some real aliens.

I think they (science) would like to explain the effects of DMT , and to some extent can do so.
However science doesn't fully understand allot of things including the brain.
Allot of what people believe is some else's best guess
From what I've experienced on DMT, I feel certain that's some other dimensional stuff going on there.
I know what I've seen and heard ...
If it was proved that DMT was nothing more than the brain going loopy, I wouldn't take it anymore.

 

[Mistletoe Minx]

@DeltaSpice

when it comes to breaking through with foreign sights, sounds and meeting other beings, for me that's not a chemical reaction that's a whole new ball game.


I have a theory about this.

Typical theories of mind posit an internal 'I', a kind of unity of you-ness, which receives perceptions of the external world and generates thoughts and actions about it. This has been a prevailing picture since Descartes if not before.

More recently people like Daniel Dennet, Douglas Hofstadter and others have proposed what might be called 'pandemonium models' of mind. They do away with the 'I' as a mental singularity and suggest that beneath conscious awareness there exists a competition between many many pre-conscious thoughts, each of which have a kind of autonomous existence. Each thought struggles for expression, or to be acted upon, and those that struggle hardest break through a threshold into consciousness. We get a glimpse of this in the 'Freudian slip' where typically some hidden desire piggybacks its way into expression on the back of some other thought. But the point is that contemporary theories do not depict one person thinking one thing at a time, but rather posit a rabble of potential thoughts vieing against each other.

So what happens when you drop a highly dissociative and synaesthesic drug like DMT into this pandemonium? The drug generally, I think, lowers the threshold of consciousness so that more of these thoughts become apparent. The dissociative aspects strengthen the feeling that one is separate from ones own mental events, such that the thoughts seem to stem from something 'other' or alien or foreign to you. The synaesthesic aspects of the drug filter these thoughts as data through visual and/or auditory pathways so that you can see or hear them as if they were right there in front of you.

At which point you see or hear entities communicating with you.

maybe, anyhow....

 

[DeltaSpice]

@deltaspice

when it comes to breaking through with foreign sights, sounds and meeting other beings, for me that's not a chemical reaction that's a whole new ball game.


I have a theory about this.

Typical theories of mind posit an internal 'I', a kind of unity of you-ness, which receives perceptions of the external world and generates thoughts and actions about it. This has been a prevailing picture since Descartes if not before.

More recently people like Daniel Dennet, Douglas Hofstadter and others have proposed what might be called 'pandemonium models' of mind. They do away with the 'I' as a mental singularity and suggest that beneath conscious awareness there exists a competition between many many pre-conscious thoughts, each of which have a kind of autonomous existence. Each thought struggles for expression, or to be acted upon, and those that struggle hardest break through a threshold into consciousness. We get a glimpse of this in the 'Freudian slip' where typically some hidden desire piggybacks its way into expression on the back of some other thought. But the point is that contemporary theories do not depict one person thinking one thing at a time, but rather posit a rabble of potential thoughts vieing against each other.

So what happens when you drop a highly dissociative and synaesthesic drug like DMT into this pandemonium? The drug generally, I think, lowers the threshold of consciousness so that more of these thoughts become apparent. The dissociative aspects strengthen the feeling that one is separate from ones own mental events, such that the thoughts seem to stem from something 'other' or alien or foreign to you. The synaesthesic aspects of the drug filter these thoughts as data through visual and/or auditory pathways so that you can see or hear them as if they were right there in front of you.

At which point you see or hear entities communicating with you.

maybe, anyhow....

Oh how wrong you are (joke)
Is that a theory or is there any proof to it?
Very interesting.

 

[Mistletoe Minx]

@ deltaspice

Oh how wrong you are (joke) Smile
Is that a theory or is there any proof to it?

There's plenty of reason to accept something like the Dennet's theory of mind, and many many reasons to reject Cartesian theories.

Whether my idea has value, that DMT entities are dissociated thoughts filtered through synaesthesia, is another matter entirely. Probably not.

I have no evidence for it. Just arguments.

In its defense:

when you dream you have an immersive experience where you are in a strange world and communicate with people, but in actual fact the experience is generated in your mind. At least we tend not to suppose otherwise.

So we are accustomed to treating very bizarre experiences in which we can communicate and interact with autonomous beings in strange logic defying worlds as being wholly mind generated.

Of course, some people believe dreams are 'astral projections'... and maybe they are.

 

[DeltaSpice]

@ deltaspice

Oh how wrong you are (joke) Smile
Is that a theory or is there any proof to it?

There's plenty of reason to accept something like the Dennet's theory of mind, and many many reasons to reject Cartesian theories.

Whether my idea has value, that DMT entities are dissociated thoughts filtered through synaesthesia, is another matter entirely. Probably not.

I have no evidence for it. Just arguments.

In its defense:

when you dream you have an immersive experience where you are in a strange world and communicate with people, but in actual fact the experience is generated in your mind. At least we tend not to suppose otherwise.

So we are accustomed to treating very bizarre experiences in which we can communicate and interact with autonomous beings in strange logic defying worlds as being wholly mind generated.

Of course, some people believe dreams are 'astral projections'... and maybe they are.

Personally I think that dreams are junk, I dream such random craziness, due to DMT, that I wish I didn't have them.

 

[Mistletoe Minx]

@ deltaspice

Personally I think that dreams are junk

Me too. Pretty convincing when I'm dreaming though.

I dream such random craziness, due to DMT, that I wish I didn't have them.

Apologies for asking but why don't you just stop taking DMT?