Updated: Xylene - I'm now a beleiver, just not a fan

[MomentOfTruth]

**All of these words are simply the opinion of myself and should not be taken as fact.

When I first began extracting from MHRB I decided to grab some xylene due to its availability in my area. I did all of my pulls with Naphtha, all of my re-x with heptane, and upon pulling the last of my naptha I would add xylene for an additional pull or two.

In my experience Xylene is just a nasty chemical. I will never use xylene again for anything. I really do not find that it is even useful for jimjam type extractions.

When using Xylene to pull the remaining "Jungle Spice" out of my bark i have noticed that during seperation the xylene often remains somewhat clear, with an orangish-oily layer kind of floating in the bottom of the xylene layer. Its always hanging out right between the xylene and the aqueous solution. Almost like a sheet of gooey nastiness that settles at the bottom of the xylene. I pull it out, evap, and i'm consistently left with some very dark material that I have yet to have any kind of hallucinatory experience with. I have literally gone through a gallon of xylene trying to extract "jungle spice" and have yet to experience any effects from the material that was pulled from it. Everything i read alleges that the jungle spice should be significantly more potent.

My thoughts are that perhaps i'm actually just pulling oils/fats/tannins/whatever is left in the bark that is soluble in the xylene, but i have yet to pull anything that i would classify as "jungle spice". (Based on what I have read about it)

So anyways, I had a little xylene left and was out of naphtha... I decided to do a jimjam type extraction and just pull EVERYTHING with the xylene. Deems + Jungle in one effort. I just wanted to see the effects of the mix. The results that I have obtained using xylene as NP Solvent have been dismal. I barely even got any NN DMT out of the xylene extraction. I'm taking this as a sign to simply stop using it altogether. It seems highly toxic/poisonous and I have yet to get any good results.

I guess the point of this thread is to state my opinion that xylene is not worth the time and I would seriously consider any alternative over this solvent. Also, I wouldn't recommend any beginners to invest in it due to the fact that it is such a pain in the rear. I was tantalized by the fact that even after pulling the dmt, that there was this other magical mystery alkaloid that i could also obtain from the bark... well... meh...

I really would like to try some legit jungle spice sometime from a trusted source so i could try to differentiate between the heaps of dark/jungle material that i have and the real deal, but i will not be using this solvent again for any purpose.

Be safe, travelers! And I wish you much success in your extractions!


I Naphtha!

 

[benzyme]

how did you process the MHRB?
xylene, naphtha, even dcm..none of those will lyse the cells.
you have to do that yourself. could just be ... weak bark. :d

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Take a look Burnt's Summary of jungle spice analytical work.

Jungle spice is almost entirely DMT. DMT is a powerful substance and while it may be possible the small amounts of betacarbolines and other stuff are affecting the subjective experience, I'd bet that it has more to do with self-suggestion. DMT is so varied and powerful with every strong experience, imo, you'd be hard pressed to subjectively comment on "jungle spice" being more potent than DMT with any reliability, even if you did a real double blind study.

Also, fwiw, I just hit ~2% yield on both Brazilian and Mexican bark using room temperature naphtha followed by room temperature xylene. The basified solution was also at room temp. In both extractions, ~50% of the yield came from the xylene pulls.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

1:1:15 ratio. Business as usual. No defatting or extra processing.

Always get between 1.5 - 2.5% yield with my preperation + naphtha

I tried to use xylene from the start on the same(fresh) preperation and got basically nothing.

And the "Jungle Spice" that i've pulled after dmt yield drastically diminishes from naphtha pulls has been ineffective. I feel that it is mostly just oils and plant material and has very little active compounds in it. Now maybe i'm doing something wrong, but i have no problem with naphtha or heptane.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

Thanks Snozzleberry, i'll look that link over.

I think my biggest problem with the xylene is that it is so much more toxic, smelly, and takes forever to evaporate down. It just seems like a nasty chemical and there are many more safe, effective, clean options available here in the states.

Again, all of this is just my humble opinion, based on my experience.

 

[benzyme]

I think my biggest problem with the xylene is that it is so much more toxic

what is your basis for such a claim? the smell? it has low to moderate toxicity.

the octanol/water partition coefficient makes xylene a very effective solvent.

and I venture these 2% claims are not only dmt. i've not seen any data/tests to suggest otherwise

 

[SnozzleBerry]

and I venture these 2% claims are not only dmt. i've not seen any data/tests to suggest otherwise

Agreed benz, you only have to look at the product pulled to see that it is not pure DMT. As I posted in the Brazilian/Mexican Yield Comparison Thread, there are many obvious impurities apparent just from the color/texture of the product. Post re-x, I would expect yield to noticeably drop.

EDIT: This would also mean that the final yield for the product collected in my xylene pulls would be less than 50% of my total yield, as it is significantly more impure than the naphtha yield.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

None of my claims are based in science or fact, as stated.

I know that it is a commonly used solvent, but I cannot understand the benefit of xylene over naphtha/heptane/limonene/etc... My biggest issue is the fumes. That stuff lingers. Even with a respirator, then moving the solvent outdoors to evap, the xylene lingers 100X more than any of the other mentioned solvents. Even these very light, lingering fumes from the xylene make me feel like crap. And I use a respirator in a superventilated area and evap outside.

It just seems like nasty stuff to me. And in comparison to the staggering results i've had with naphtha and heptane i cannot find a reason to personally use the xylene.

Hope i didn't offend anyone.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

So you guys that use the xylene...

Are you salting out the dmt from the xylene or using evaporation method?

I have never tried salt precipitation

 

[benzyme]

no worries


some people just prefer some solvents over others, and claim there's no difference.
the data speaks differently. alkaloids are more soluble in xylene and dcm, and multiple pulls aren't really needed.

salting out xylene would be the way to go, because of its high bp.
I prefer dcm.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

This round I evapped, because I wanted to make sure I had absolutely everything for the yield comparison. I did the evap while I was at work so as to not have to deal with the fumes.

In the past I have salted out of xylene using vinegar, to great success, then heat-converted the acetate to freebase and used it for changa.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

Thanks for the information. Appreciate your honesty! I obviously have no where near the scientific knowledge, or general experience as some of you. But my only goal is to continously learn everything that I can, about everything that i'm interested in and more. I'm one of the more motivated self-learners out there. (OCD and ADHD) haha!

I may take the last of my xylene and try a different approach to determine the results. I have to do some more research on the salt precip method.

 

[MomentOfTruth]

I scraped up all of my dried, brownish, tasty pasty safari samples(collected over several extractions) and re-x'd with naptha and the result was the removal of the pastyness and the further extraction of all of the goodies. I beleive I rex'd about 3-4 grams of the jungle paste and was able to obtain about 1/2 g of some really nice orange/dry crystals. It appears the xylene pulled so much of the muddy stuff that the dmt/plant material ratio was not sufficient to break through without taking 5-6 massive hits from the GVG. I now have an extremely active, and considerably pure product. I will attempt to re-x the remaining sludge this evening in hopes to obtain any remaining spice.

Again, thanks to Mr. Wizard and friends for the notes yesterday. I mean that sincerely. I was just starting to get fed up with the hassle that i've experienced with the xylene and perhaps i was prematurely b!tching about the results. I still do not intend on using xylene for anything outside of stripping paint off of a bumper, but I certainly have a new appreciate for the science behind it.

I am also thankful for the junge spice/dmt percentages that were posted in the link earlier in the thread. That was a very informative read and it gives me alot more hope for re-xing all the brown goo balls that tend to come out after the solution sits for a couple weeks. Thanks for helping to improve my yield and reinvigorate my thought process!

 

[benzyme]

good job

I'm glad you took the time to at least investigate the issue.
I'll admit, the smell of xylene is downright obnoxious, and I don't blame you
for wanting to use an alternative. the odor seems to overwhelm a dwelling, possibly
putting neighbors on notice. I use a carbon trap to absorb vapors whenever I work with xylene

 

[MomentOfTruth]

Carbon trap would be absolutely necessary.

That actually makes me want to experiment with designing my own little carbon filtered evap system. That would be a pretty slick little invention for evapping any type of solvent in a residence without the vapors leaking out and overwhelming the place.

I'm most certainly going to play with that idea as i'm sure i can design it!

Nice!

 

[mad_banshee]

I use only xylene these days. I found that in one big pull I can get most of the good stuff out if I use double the amount of xylene as I previously used with naptha.
If you have an outdoor shed or garage that you can use to evaporate in a glass dish with a fan over it, a shallow dish of xylene will easily evaporate in one day leaving brownish goo that when you work it will harden and can then be chopped up to a nice fine powder.
In my subjective experience I have found spice made this way to be stronger and have a more powerful visual edge to it than naptha freeze precip spice. But that is subjective and all experiences have a way of their own, so who knows?

 

[MomentOfTruth]

I get some of that really dark red/brown goo. Various consistencies. I find that i like the product much better after recrystallization. Never got any kind of crystals from xylene. Only a very oily substance. I like my white fluffy yummyness. And I usually Re-x that until i get the crystal quality that i like.

That is interesting about the single pull, Banshee! Clearly the DMT is more soluble in the xylene as stated previously.

 

[Noman]

Toluene seems to pull just as well as xylene and is somewhat less smelly and evaps more quickly.