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Vaso/bronchoconstrictive properties of psyches

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bringeroflight

Rising Star
Hi all,

I've been exploring psychedelics as a tool for artistic enhancement as of late, with results which I'm quite pleased with. So far, my tests have focused mainly on Mushrooms (Psilocybes) and LSH, and I must say that I'm beyond impressed with the productivity these things can channel for me. I also have to wonder why I don't hear of them being used this way more often? It's well known of course that many artists do, but most of the use I come across is recreational. Anyway, it'd be good to get in to this some more, but there's something else I want to bring up here at the moment..

I've read that these things have constrictive effects on blood vessels and lungs (especially LSH), but my experience has been somewhat to the contrary, as I always find it incredibly easy to breathe when on a psychedelic of any kind. So I went in search of some studies that might verify my speculation that these things were dilating my airways, but ended up finding of course that what they show is pretty much the opposite. Looking back on it, I recall some kind of shortness of breath while on LSH, but the weird thing is that it was also accompanied by the same very definite 'ease of breath' feeling which I get from Psilocybin. Now I'm not so sure what the cause for this ease of breathe is, but it's definitely there; especially with mushrooms. As for vaso-constriction, I can't comment much, as I usually use Cannabis to clear those side-effects up, and it's always worked well as far as I've noticed.

So, does anyone else find it incredibly easy to breathe when on psychedelics? As if you have increased lung capacity? And is there any proof that the psychedelics themselves are responsible for constrictive effects? Might it be something else? Or is it possible in some way that these things can be dualistically lung opening and closing all at once?
 
LSH and the mystery psychedelic in calamus are the only two psychedelics that have affected SWIM’s breathing noticeably. LSH causes SWIM to get a feeling of shortness of breath. The mystery psychedelic in calamus (active after removing the asarone) makes SWIM’s lungs feel “thick” sort of like DXM does for SWIM, but doesn’t cause shortness of breath. SWIM doesn’t consider DXM a psychedelic, but that causes the same thick feeling in the lungs for SWIM.

Other than that, SWIM has occasionally hyperventilated while on high doses of a few psychedelics, but that’s about it.
 
So when SWIM experiences any affects on breathing, they're pretty much the opposite of the kind I'm describing? Even with mushrooms SWIM has never noticed any lung-expanding kind of feeling?
 
SWIM once accidentally took an overdose of Psilocybe cubensis, I think it was 25 dried grams? I don’t recall now, but it was such a dose that SWIM became cold, pale, sweaty, and the following day had several broken blood vessels in his body. Psilocybin is an anti-coagulant like aspirin in large doses, and that caused the broken blood vessels. But even with such a scary overdose as that, SWIM felt no effects on his lungs or his breathing. But he was so out of it that if he did have such effects, he might not have even noticed them. At that dose time started to split and SWIM experienced things that cannot be explained using the human language. So his recollection of the event is not reliable because during the experience his ability to understand reality was completely broken to shreds.

At lower doses he’s never experienced any effects on breathing or the lungs from mushrooms….hmmmm…now that I think about it, Psilocybe azurescens did sometimes cause a thick feeling in the lungs, but not breathing difficulty or anything like that.

The only things that make me fee like I can breath better is peppermint and menthol.
 
Woah, that's a serious dose 69ron. How did SWIM manage such an extreme overdose? Was he working with an extract? I've seen ordinary reality as I know it completely dissolve and leave no former trace at doses of 10g, nevermind 25!

Think the vaso-constriction would have been so serious if you had gradually built up to such a dose?
 
It’s not that hard to eat that much. A potato easily weighs 250 grams. A cup of water is about 250 grams.

The mushrooms were previously canned in a pressure cooker. Everyone said they would be inactive because of the heat. SWIM believe them, made soup out of them, and then ate the whole lot expecting it to do nothing. It tasted good, they were no longer bluish. So he kept eating more and more and completed all of them. Within 5 minutes after that he was tripping harder than he’d ever tripped before and was very scared, thinking maybe he OD’d on them.

From what I understand you don’t get tolerance to the vasoconstriction effects of mushrooms.


The lesson learned from this stupid mistake: DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU ABOUT DRUGS UNTIL YOU VERIFY IT YOURSELF!
 
I noticed bronchoconstriction with almost every psychedelic substance.

Even theoretically it would be impossible to have a psychedelic substance like LSD, mescaline, psilocin, DMT, or bufotenine that would not cause both vaso and bronchoconstriction to SOME extent since the receptors responsible for psychedelic effects are also responsible for all kinds of physiological processes. The 5-HT-2 receptor, the most well known receptor affected by the traditional psychedelics occurs throughout the body. This receptor is the main responsible receptor for vasoconstriction and bronchoconstriction. Therefore you cannot have a 5-HT-2 agonist that has no vasoconstrictive and bronchoconstrictive effects.
 
69ron said:
It’s not that hard to eat that much. A potato easily weighs 250 grams. A cup of water is about 250 grams.

The mushrooms were previously canned in a pressure cooker. Everyone said they would be inactive because of the heat. SWIM believe them, made soup out of them, and then ate the whole lot expecting it to do nothing. It tasted good, they were no longer bluish. So he kept eating more and more and completed all of them.
Click to expand...

Yes, it seems that the mushroom actives are a lot stabler than many suggest. I've boiled mushrooms for well over 10 minutes with no noticeable degradation. Pressure cooking is a whole other matter of course, but still, I'm not really surprised.

69ron said:
Within 5 minutes after that he was tripping harder than he’d ever tripped before and was very scared, thinking maybe he OD’d on them.
Click to expand...

That is exactly what happened to me when on 10g. A mind bending experience indeed.

polytrip said:
I noticed bronchoconstriction with almost every psychedelic substance.

Even theoretically it would be impossible to have a psychedelic substance like LSD, mescaline, psilocin, DMT, or bufotenine that would not cause both vaso and bronchoconstriction to SOME extent since the receptors responsible for psychedelic effects are also responsible for all kinds of physiological processes. The 5-HT-2 receptor, the most well known receptor affected by the traditional psychedelics occurs throughout the body. This receptor is the main responsible receptor for vasoconstriction and bronchoconstriction. Therefore you cannot have a 5-HT-2 agonist that has no vasoconstrictive and bronchoconstrictive effects.
Click to expand...

I hear ya on the abundance and versatility of the 5-HT-2 mechanisms. I wonder though, if it's really quite that black and white? Maybe it's possible that these receptors systems have such a wide variety of responses that broncho-dilation is a possibility as well as constriction? Because I get a definite feeling of lung expansion from shrooms. Even if this physical explanation is incorrect, there's definitely an ease of breathe that is beyond what I normally experience. I wonder why?
 
Yohimbe often helps to relieve the bronchoconstriction. Drinking a good deal of mullein tea can also help some people -- but run the tea through a coffee filter or a few layers of cheesecloth first, to remove little sharp things from the plant that you don't want to drink. I guess they're trichomes or something like that. Whatever they are, they cause a burning sensation in the throat, all the way down the esophagus, and sometimes even in the stomach. Personally, I think the yohimbe works better, though it's a stimulant so you need to watch the dose, and avoid doses high enough to cause unpleasant or edgy feelings.
 
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