Vinegar question.

[RevB]

Doing a simple A/B extraction and have a question.

Was using Vitamin C, but was told that vinegar would be a better acid to extract out of mimosa. How much vinegar should be used for a liter of water? Is normal store bought white vinegar fine?

Any suggestions or tips are appreciated.

Thank you,
RevB

 

[Noman]

Distilled white vinegar 1:2 with water is what my friend uses.
Works great.

 

[RevB]

Distilled white vinegar 1:2 with water is what my friend uses.
Works great.

Trying 1500mg of Vitamin C with 350ml of vinegar for one quart of water.

Quick board question: What's SWIM stand for?

 

[Noman]

some wombat I met

 

[RevB]

some wombat I met

Genius.

 

[benzyme]

some wombat I met

Genius.

:lol:

i knew some wombat who put powder in 1:1 vinegar/filtered water, and let it sit for a week; used NaOH to basify, and DCM to extract. it worked out fine

 

[RevB]

Distilled white vinegar 1:2 with water is what my friend uses.
Works great.

During extraction, approximately how much liquid should be used in total for 100g of MHRB?

 

[RevB]

some wombat I met

Genius.

:lol:

I know every forum has their own devices and I was unfamiliar with this one. Very nice.

 

[benzyme]

Distilled white vinegar 1:2 with water is what my friend uses.
Works great.

During extraction, approximately how much liquid should be used in total for 100g of MHRB?

500-600 mL acidic water should suffice

 

[RevB]

Distilled white vinegar 1:2 with water is what my friend uses.
Works great.

During extraction, approximately how much liquid should be used in total for 100g of MHRB?

500-600 mL acidic water should suffice

SWIM used 1350ml total, cooked at low temperature for 3 hours with a final result of around 800ml. Will that be alright?

 

[benzyme]

that's a lot of water for just 100g of MHRB, but should be alright.
though SWIY is going to have to add basified water, increasing the volume even further.

the cool thing about vinegar is that it doesn't need to be diluted very much. 5% has a pH of around 2.6 right out the bottle, which is even fine to add str8 to mhrb.

 

[RevB]

that's a lot of water for just 100g of MHRB, but should be alright.
maybe divide it up in two, and basify both. the reason I say this is, SWIY is going to have to add basified water, increasing the volume even further.

SWIM will add 100ml of water with dissolved lye to basify. SWIM would like to know if dividing this in two and adding 100ml to each be alright? Would SWIM be able to to do three 50ml solvent pulls from each?

 

[benzyme]

that's a lot of water for just 100g of MHRB, but should be alright.
maybe divide it up in two, and basify both. the reason I say this is, SWIY is going to have to add basified water, increasing the volume even further.

SWIM will add 100ml of water with dissolved lye to basify. SWIM would like to know if dividing this in two and adding 100ml to each be alright? Would SWIM be able to to do three 50ml solvent pulls from each?

SWIY may need more than that to basify, and certainly more solvent. can't say how much base for sure, but the solvent should be about 1/5th the volume of basified solution... 3X.

for instance, if SWIY separates the total solution into 250mL aliquots (samples), treat each with 50mL solvent..and repeat 3 times with fresh solvent for each aliquot.

 

[RevB]

that's a lot of water for just 100g of MHRB, but should be alright.
maybe divide it up in two, and basify both. the reason I say this is, SWIY is going to have to add basified water, increasing the volume even further.

SWIM will add 100ml of water with dissolved lye to basify. SWIM would like to know if dividing this in two and adding 100ml to each be alright? Would SWIM be able to to do three 50ml solvent pulls from each?

SWIY may need more than that to basify, and certainly more solvent. can't say how much base for sure, but the solvent should be about 1/5th the volume of basified solution... 3X.

for instance, if SWIY separates the total solution into 250mL aliquots (samples), treat each with 50mL solvent..and repeat 3 times with fresh solvent for each aliquot.

How long should each pull sit in aliquots?

So after freezing to remove impurities, SWIM would divide the remaining acidified extract into two aliquots, then basify each with 100ml of lye treated water, then do three 50ml pulls of solvent for each. Could those pulls then be combined into one container and left to freeze for a couple days?

 

[benzyme]

now sure where you're getting this 100mL solvent idea from, but the solvent ought to be 1/5th of the basified volume.
freezing? the only thing freezing is good for is precipitating crystals after the extraction, and separating the nonpolar from the aqueous layer, but even that can be done at room temp. the acidic phase can sit at room temp, no point in freezing it. the acidic phase can be left to sit for a few days, but I do not recommend letting the basic phase sit that long; a few hours is fine

 

[acolon_5]

SWIY may need more than that to basify, and certainly more solvent. can't say how much base for sure, but the solvent should be about 1/5th the volume of basified solution... 3X.

for instance, if SWIY separates the total solution into 250mL aliquots (samples), treat each with 50mL solvent..and repeat 3 times with fresh solvent for each aliquot.

I have to disagree. For 100g MHRB I have found that repeated pulls of 50-100mL are more than adequate. More solvent means more loss on freeze precipitation. I would rather have to pull an extra 2 times than lose 100mgs of spice or have to evaporate a large quantity of solvent into the atmosphere. Yes it is a little more work, but the end result seems well worth it. I mean, if I have 100g of bark and use 20 gallons of acidified water it doesn't make any sense to use 4 gallons of solvent to pull out the spice (granted over dramatization but you can see my point). Solvent should be in ratio to amount of bark used, not the amount of liquid used to extract it.

I have found that doing more extractions with less water yields better and keeps the amount of solvent needed down quite a bit. Also with solvent, more pulls with less solvent yields better than 2-3 large solvent pulls.

 

[benzyme]

I mean, if I have 100g of bark and use 20 gallons of acidified water it doesn't make any sense to use 4 gallons of solvent to pull out the spice (granted over dramatization but you can see my point). Solvent should be in ratio to amount of bark used, not the amount of liquid used to extract it.

i see your point, then again, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense using that much water (which should also be in ratio to bark used), which was essentially my point. yes, I was using ratios with respect to the aqueous phase, which shouldn't be a whole lot for 100g..well under a liter. 100mL solvent would be plenty, though SWIM has gotten away with 150 (even though he had to evap a bit of it off); for freeze precipitation, yes, that matters..conc. wouldn't be significant enough to see anything crash out (though I don't see how you'd lose any alkaloids). with evaporation, it wouldn't really matter.

 

[RevB]

now sure where you're getting this 100mL solvent idea from, but the solvent ought to be 1/5th of the basified volume.
freezing? the only thing freezing is good for is precipitating crystals after the extraction, and separating the nonpolar from the aqueous layer, but even that can be done at room temp. the acidic phase can sit at room temp, no point in freezing it. the acidic phase can be left to sit for a few days, but I do not recommend letting the basic phase sit that long; a few hours is fine

So SWIM is revising the method. Going to try 200ml vinegar to 400ml distilled water for 100g of ground root bark. Let sit for 24 hours, then cook on low heat for 2 hours. After that filter and basify with 100ml of distilled water with lye. Then 3x 50ml solvent, which will be placed into freezer for at least 48 hours. How is that sounding?

 

[acolon_5]

now sure where you're getting this 100mL solvent idea from, but the solvent ought to be 1/5th of the basified volume.
freezing? the only thing freezing is good for is precipitating crystals after the extraction, and separating the nonpolar from the aqueous layer, but even that can be done at room temp. the acidic phase can sit at room temp, no point in freezing it. the acidic phase can be left to sit for a few days, but I do not recommend letting the basic phase sit that long; a few hours is fine

So SWIM is revising the method. Going to try 200ml vinegar to 400ml distilled water for 100g of ground root bark. Let sit for 24 hours, then cook on low heat for 2 hours. After that filter and basify with 100ml of distilled water with lye. Then 3x 50ml solvent, which will be placed into freezer for at least 48 hours. How is that sounding?

Sounds good to me. You will learn what works best for you after your first few extractions. Everyone has a different method or technique that works best for them. I use a little bit of everything and a few things I figured out myself. It is really more of an art than a hard and fast science.

Benzyme,
You are correct. If the solvent was 100% evap'd no loss would occur. The loss would occur only if a large amount of solvent was not evaporated down prior to freeze precipitation.

 

[benzyme]

now sure where you're getting this 100mL solvent idea from, but the solvent ought to be 1/5th of the basified volume.
freezing? the only thing freezing is good for is precipitating crystals after the extraction, and separating the nonpolar from the aqueous layer, but even that can be done at room temp. the acidic phase can sit at room temp, no point in freezing it. the acidic phase can be left to sit for a few days, but I do not recommend letting the basic phase sit that long; a few hours is fine

So SWIM is revising the method. Going to try 200ml vinegar to 400ml distilled water for 100g of ground root bark. Let sit for 24 hours, then cook on low heat for 2 hours. After that filter and basify with 100ml of distilled water with lye. Then 3x 50ml solvent, which will be placed into freezer for at least 48 hours. How is that sounding?

sounds good

like acolon_5 alludes, people come up with new techs by trial and error, there is no end-all/be-all tech. it's all about experimentation, which makes us all legitimate chemists.