Washing mescaline

[69ron]

SWIM prefers pure mescaline over the cactus mix, that’s for sure.

With SWIMMERs comparing the effects of the impurities based on impure extracts and possibly different sources of cacti, it can be very confusing.

SWIM is talking about San Pedro, but not all San Pedro are exactly the same. Kemist, you may be more sensitive to the stimulant present than SWIM is or maybe SWIM is experiencing a different impurity? It would be good to know for sure.

 

[kemist]

Yeah sorry ILPT forgott to remind that he is working only with Trichocereus Peruvianus. At least is labeled as a trichocereus peruvianus by vendor

He also feel slight but only very slight paranoia after ingesting fullrange extract or extract after just acetone wash.

He suspected the speedy alkaloid to be 3,4-dimethoxyphenyl ethylamine but tht`s just speculation. Parrot`s friend finally got IPA which is now sitting in freezer. Have to tell ya ILPT, cannot wait til tomorow to perform few IPA washes and will try washed product straightaway so he would report back on activity and change in effects tomorow night if everytghing goes well.

Just to remind you ILPT is not smoking drinking or smoking any weed anymore and he isn`t taking any medication so there will not be any contraindication.

 

[69ron]

Kemist, it's nice to see people doing these sorts of tests. I'm excited to hear your feedback on the IPA wash.

 

[kemist]

Kemist, it's nice to see people doing these sorts of tests. I'm excited to hear your feedback on the IPA wash.

I`m glad too that ILPT does this for comunity and reporting his results immediatly via telephathic pathway Good lad he is !

Anyways. Seems like IPA washes are a bit pain in the bum as solids settling down slowly and IPA doesn`t penetrate and dissolve as well as less viscous acetone does It`s very time consuming. Some of the very fine solids actually still dispersed in IPA so his IPA isolated alkaloid gonna contain a tiny little bit of mescal.
He doesn`t mind for now as he is just very keen to find out effects of pure mescaline hydrochloride, but next time he will all let settle down and take his time to do things propery.

Purification and testing of the non mescaline alks will take place later

Next time He definitelly will use hot IPA and then He will putt it in freezer. That should speed up things a bit and make washes far more effecient

Anyway IPA picked up a lot of pink colour yet the product still has it pinkish reddish tint and it still smell of limonene :shock:

ILPT believe it`s just plant gunk and traces of limonene and not some other alkaloid.He only using turkey baster and coffee filters so separation of water(gar) from limo isn`t perfect.

Out of topic just to clear up source and extraction facts:
{He used a bit less water then tek suggest (450ml 200g flesh 50 g lime ) and this time he let it react about 2-3hours before he added limonene.
Normally he adding limo about 15 minutes after mixing lime flesh and water

He ordered form the same vendor about 3 months ago and that time the extract wasn`t red just has liitle hint of red , but this time it was very dark red :roll:

He still have another 300grams of the same flesh and in next extraction he will add limo just 15 minutes after mizing lime water and flesh just like he did many timesd before

It could be this slight modification in extraction or vendor has different flesh this time. Have to say that both times vendors flesh yielding well and extracts are quiet potent :d }


Anyways after 3 acetone(10-15 C) washes of 1,5 gram impure mescaline hydrochloride ILPT get 1 gram of dry powder

and this one was washed twice with IPA(-5 -5 C) to retrieve 0,8 gram of dry powder

(*The temperature intervals are because solvent getting a bit warmer while solids settling down obviously)

Conlusions:
Acetone washes removed 33% of stuff and IPA washes removed another 20 % of stuff
His limo acetate extract converted to hydrochloride has almost 50% impurities. Shame he hasn`t got any MEK It would be very interesting to see whether are more impurities in there or not
He never ate more then 300 mgs of his full range impure extract, what means he never experienced stronger trip then 150mg of pure(purer) mescaline hydrochloride


250 mg of this purified hydrochloride powder was just eaten (12:30) by ILPT on fairly empty stomach(it`s 3 hours from egg and bacon breakfast) splashed down with fanta zero :d

He will contact me tonight after effects wear off and I will report his experience staraightaway

 

[w0mbat]

250 mg of this purified hydrochloride powder was just eaten (12:30) by ILPT on fairly empty stomach(it`s 3 hours from egg and bacon breakfast) splashed down with fanta zero :d

Kemist, can you say what color ILPT's purified hydrochloride powder was? Using this color palate? :d :d SWIM's mescaline acetate that was washed with 11% IPA / 89% limonene went from dark red to light tan (255 R, 194 G, 102 B, or hex #FFC266), and he is wondering how his results compare to ILPT's

 

[kemist]

ILPT contacted me again and he has to say following: Guys you wouldn't believe how entirely different experience it become after IPA wash. He actually didn't like it as much as before the IPA wash. It kicked in an hour and half after ingestion. There was little tiredness about 15 minutes after ingestion which linger trough entire trip. ILPT done only three acetone washes before commencing IPA washes and powder wasn't white what leading to conclusion that some of the the sedating alkaloids still presented. It lost all the speediness it has before IPA wash and empathy also gone. Seems like alkaloid removed via IPA wash is very mdma like empathogen and speedy. Ilpt cannot wait until IPA evaporate so he can try this alk. on it's own. He has gut feeling that he gonna love that one. Afterall there is still something else then mescaline hydrochloride after all these washes. In approx. 4th hour after ingestion something bronchodilatating kicked in and it lasted about three hours. It was a bit scary like brought in some negative thoughst and little of anxiety and paranoia. Something not nice something most likely toxic. What the fuck is it and how to remove it ??? Interesting how many different alks found it way to limonene and that was only torch which profile suppose to be the simplest one. How about pedro or achuma. One will most likely broke his neck then clean those up.

 

[kemist]

250 mg of this purified hydrochloride powder was just eaten (12:30) by ILPT on fairly empty stomach(it`s 3 hours from egg and bacon breakfast) splashed down with fanta zero :d

Kemist, can you say what color ILPT's purified hydrochloride powder was? Using this color palate? :d :d SWIM's mescaline acetate that was washed with 11% IPA / 89% limonene went from dark red to light tan (255 R, 194 G, 102 B, or hex #FFC266), and he is wondering how his results compare to ILPT's

his is the same light tan. Can your swim notice any bronchodilatation or any effects on bronchea at all. Any anxiety paranoia or any negative thoughts in about 4 hours after ingestion? What flesh your swim using pedro or peruvian ? If that nasty stuff isn't in pedro ilpt will abandon peruvianus and work with pedro only. He seriously disliked that stuff he was sitting on train and looking out of window and he felt like the train heading to death land scary shite sort like from final destination movie. He had some thh subling. which grounded him a bit but he can imagine that at higher dose it could all go very nasty. Man forget about bloody colours could you comment more on the effects? Ilpt liked the impure stuff more then pure mescaline. That alkaloids balancing each other out. The sedating bringing in more visualisation the speedy one more empathy. Mescaline on it's own is actually quiet trippy and not very socialable only towards the end of experience some company could be acceptable. During the peek one can just close eyes and drift into visions and that was only 250 mgs. Ilpt is a bit scared thoug as in 4th hour it can all get nasty for three hours and then what ? Ilpt keep asking what is that shit, what is that shit

 

[w0mbat]

his is the same light tan.

Then I wonder if a wash with 11% IPA / 89% limonene is just as good as washing with acetone followed by IPA? SWIM also had about the same amount of loss with this method.

Can your swim notice any bronchodilatation or any effects on bronchea at all.

Last time SWIM tried his impure M acetate, he pretty strong dose. He did not notice any bronchodilation, but was not looking for any either.

Any anxiety paranoia or any negative thoughts in about 4 hours after ingestion?

Mostly anxiety and negative thoughts, I suppose. The trip became mildly dysphoric towards the end. Without getting too into it SWIM had strong thoughts about good and evil and destiny and fate that persisted annoyingly for many hours... he had some thoughts about things to do that seemed to make sense at the time; but upon reflection a day or two later seemed like the ideation of a crazy person. He did not get paranoid at all, though, even though some things happened during his trip that definitely could have triggered a paranoid episode

hat flesh your swim using pedro or peruvian ?

Pedro

Man forget about bloody colours could you comment more on the effects?

I think the colors of the products are quite important, actually. Psychological effects are highly subjective and depend on the individual and his or her expectations. Colors are hard to describe even with words (think how many shades of "tan" there are, and how we have only one word to refer to all of them), which is why I like referring to a color palate. It's the closest to objective measures of purity we can get in online discussions, unless people's friends what to run out and buy the equipment needed to take melting points or post pictures.

Ilpt liked the impure stuff more then pure mescaline. That alkaloids balancing each other out. The sedating bringing in more visualisation the speedy one more empathy. Mescaline on it's own is actually quiet trippy and not very socialable only towards the end of experience some company could be acceptable.

Well, SWIM has only tried 1) straight Pedro powder and 2) his highly impure acetate extract, but both times he has noticed a mild but definite "speedyness." Even though he took both doses in the early afternoon, he did not sleep at all at night either time. He also noticed some mild muscle weakness and shakiness in his hands. Visuals were mild but also pretty nice, with some trails & afterimages with the powder and beautiful wavy snake-like visuals with the extract. Closing eyes produced more "mental imagery" than visual imagery.

 

[kemist]

Ilpt will go into colour thing later, because he done only 3 acetone washes and 5 will be in order. Maybe bronchodilatation is subjective but seems like the negative aspects which ilpt attributed to some other alkaloid were felt by your swim too. Have to say that psychological effects are not subjective at all unless you not on some medication or drug addict(even weed or alcohol) There are some cornerstones which could be attributed to individual alkaloids but swim need to has some sensibility as ilpt has, you know. The muscle spasms or whatever ilpt felt on his impure acetate were all removed by just two acetone washes. Whatever is it is very well soluble in acetone. Ilpt wouldn't say they are losses. He actually miss alk removed via ipa. Mescaline is not speedy without it. Sure one cannot sleep because of tripping but is not speedy at all unless some coffee is taken. The ipa soluble stuff make it all speedy. The same alk make the nasty alk in 4th hour less unpleasant as it counteracts as great empathogene. This alk is what people think is mescaline. Is speedy empathic and euphoric. Hehe ilpt cannot wait to test it on it's own.

 

[w0mbat]

Hypothetical experiment 2

Question: Can impure mescaline acetate be appreciably cleaned by washing with a solution of 6% IPA, 94% d-limonene?

Methods: Basically the same as in hypothetical experiment 1, except for the lower ratio of IPA to d-limonene. The starting material - the crude, impure mescaline acetate - was from the same stock.

Results: The final product was about the same color (i.e., so close one would not be able to tell the two apart were they presented randomly). The experiment was started with 0.314 g dark red impure mescaline acetate, and at the end about 0.227 g tan mescaline acetate was obtained (for specific colors refer to experiment 1).

Discussion: The yield here was 72% of theoretical, notably better than the 63% of theoretical obtained in hypothetical experiment 1. Since the final products were basically the same exact color - implying they are of about the same purity - it would seem that washing with a lower ratio of IPA to d-limonene can provide the same level of purity with less loss. Perhaps an even lower ratio of IPA to d-limonene could be even better?

 

[burnt]

has anyone directly compared pedro and peruvian's in terms of effects? before and after washing?

 

[Bancopuma]

^^I would be interested in hearing more on this comparison. I have had one experience with 120mg unwashed San Pedro extract, the rest of my experiences have been with unwashed torch extract, ranging from 70-250mg. The different cactus species gave distinctly different experiences.

Although this is based on the one experience, the San Pedro extract experience was by far the most pleasant, and for the quantity, relatively the most potent. I was getting strong colour enhancement and even open eye visuals, fractal patterns etc at this 120mg dose, and the euphoria was incredible...the closest thing to (and far superior) to good MDMA I have ever encountered. The only other thing ingested that day was coffee.

All my torch extract experiences have been pleasant for sure, but none of them have reached the heights of that San Pedro experience, including the higher dosages.

So, based on this comparison;

a). There are more, or different alkaloids in San Pedro than in torch (which is common knowledge).

b). One of these alkaloids in the San Pedro is a powerful euphoriant and stimulant, and thus personally I wouldn't want to wash it out of my extract.

c). Mescaline might not be the most important euphoriant or stimulant in cactus, it might be one of a few, that synergise with one another.

All these experiences were with unwashed extract though, never got round to washing it. After my next extraction I will be going down the au nautural resin tek path I think. And I have just the one San Pedro experience for comparison.

 

[kemist]

has anyone directly compared pedro and peruvian's in terms of effects? before and after washing?

Pedro or peruvian lol. Ilpt think his vendor send him pedro labeled as peruvian bastad. There was loads of that red stuff init which normal isn't in peruvianus and full range extract missing the spedyness which full range peruvian normally has.

 

[balaganist]

I found when I have extracted from San Pedro, the full alkaloid extract was really nice .. however the full extract from Torch has left me with slight stomach cramps and feelings of uneasiness. Therefore when extracting from Torch I now wash with acetone + IPA to get pure-ish mesc.

 

[soulfood]

I found when I have extracted from San Pedro, the full alkaloid extract was really nice .. however the full extract from Torch has left me with slight stomach cramps and feelings of uneasiness. Therefore when extracting from Torch I now wash with acetone + IPA to get pure-ish mesc.

That's quite strange because a limonene extraction from SP seems to have more discomfort than a crude resin extract from TP.
I'm starting to wonder if there's any point in differentiating between labels. It seems that the effect is unique to individual cactus rather from species to species.

 

[Bancopuma]

^^Interesting dude. I've noticed I can sometimes get stomach cramps from unwashed torch extract, not all the time but sometimes...don't remember that featuring with the San Pedro, was a while ago now though. But the San Pedro experience felt nourishing and good, torch extract can sometimes almost feel just a tad dirty. I'm interested to see how a crude resin extract will compare.

 

[kemist]

Acetone wash ir always good to do. Extract will loose some of it visual aspects and what's better, the sedation too. However IPA wash should be reconsidered as it washing away that lovely euphoric empathogenic and speedy alkaloid. Just to let you now ilpt is very familiar with effects of unwashed limo extracts. He went trough good 30 trips and only after he started to wash away individual alks he started to realize what effects each of them causing. Everything is clearer to him now but research is ongoing.

 

[69ron]

has anyone directly compared pedro and peruvian's in terms of effects? before and after washing?

No, SWIM has not. He either has Pedro or Torch to work with and seldom has the two at the same time. SWIM uses Pedro more often, because it tends to give more consistent yields. Sometimes Torch produces great yields, but a few times he got NOTHING from it at all. It seems to be more unpredictable.

What SWIM has noticed is that the cleaned Torch alkaloids are not as different in effects as the cleaned Pedro alkaloids are. Without cleaning, Pedro is a very foggy dreamy experience. A crude Torch extract is still very much like mescaline to SWIM.

I suspect that most people are going to argue about these facts because not everyone is using the exact same strain of cactus and the exact same cactus. Alkaloids vary by location, strain, time of year, health of cactus, etc.

 

[Crystalito]

Alkaloids vary by location, strain, time of year, health of cactus, etc.

And if those factors seem like "a lot of variation" for some people, try throwing in that people also vary in sensitivity,receptor numbers,metabolic enzymes,personality,set and setting amongst other factors

Its a bit complicated. Not that it shouldnt be talked about or analysed,thats why we are all here after all.But keeping the above in mind at all times can make one understand and accept more the variance presented at the final response of the individual.

 

[w0mbat]

Hypothetical experiment 3

This hypothetical experiment was done a while ago, and the hypothetical experimenter lost his/her notes from the experiment, so all of the numbers here represent ballparks rather than exact measurements.

But anyways, this experiment took a batch of the same impure mescaine acetate that was used in hypothetical experiments 1 & 2, but this time washed it with a solution of 98% d-limonene, 2% IPA.

This ratio of d-limonene to anhydrous IPA seemed suboptimal. While the washed mescaline from this experiment was about the same color as the final products of hypothetical experiments 1 & 2, here the final product was notably stickier. IMO, this would imply that whatever sticky alkaloids were in it before washing were not completely removed with this ratio of d-limonene:IPA.

The main conclusion that this hypothetical experiment points to is that for purifying crude mescaline acetate with a mixture of d-limonene and IPA, the optimal ratio of limo to IPA is something greater than 2% IPA/ 98% limo, and something less than or equal to 6% IPA/ 94% limo.

Good luck to future SWIMMers, this SWIM hopes that this d-limo & IPA washing method could prove a safer and "greener" alternative to washing with MEK, acetone, and the like.