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*Water Only* Tek -- work in progress
- Thread starter Wanderer
- Start date
Hi moyshekapoyre. I am surprised you attempted a tek like this, which hasn't been fully tried and tested, with a kilo of bark! I suggest you keep your mimosa soup and try pulling with naphtha to try get the rest of the DMT out. I am guessing there is a lot of goodies still left. I suggest next time only using 100-200 grams of bark on a tek like this, saving the rest of your bark for a tek like morsofold's or noman's tek.
I still applaud you for testing it out anyways, as it is a interesting procedure. Let us know the size of your yield when finished. Thanks!
DK
I still applaud you for testing it out anyways, as it is a interesting procedure. Let us know the size of your yield when finished. Thanks!
DK
funkatron9000
*WARNING* Classified Information
Did you forget to post your results and final weight wanderer or are you still off in hyperspace?
Wanderer said:
I would love to know what the material is or was in the picture wanderer posted at the beginning of this thread. IMO it was not DMT, but something else that precipitated out.
I have worked and re worked this tek and am now officially done with it. IMO its a complete waste of bark.
My advice to anyone thinking of attempting this tek?
DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS TEK!
alzabo
Rising Star
My first thought in seeing this thread was Dang, someone beat me to it! Now after reading it it sounds like the title should have been "*Water Only* Tek -- HIGHLY EXPERIMENTAL! And Really a Lot of Work 
No Acids or Solvents (is the goal) w/ Pic".
I think it's a really cool idea and I'm so happy to see that people have been working on this type of technique but as far as I've read there hasn't been a single verifiable bio assay or other confirmation of results.
To wanderer, it's great that you're trying different things but please in the future, confirm your results before you call something 'Successful!'.
No Acids or Solvents (is the goal) w/ Pic".I think it's a really cool idea and I'm so happy to see that people have been working on this type of technique but as far as I've read there hasn't been a single verifiable bio assay or other confirmation of results.
To wanderer, it's great that you're trying different things but please in the future, confirm your results before you call something 'Successful!'.
dooby
Rising Star
Well, this is an old thread and I suppose people have completely given up on this idea, understandably...
I've also read a number of similar/related threads (water teks) and I can see why this concept has been buried...
That being said, I do feel like some things have been overlooked, that mistakes were made but gone unnoticed, that things could have been tried but weren't...
I am going to think about this some more before I start experimenting, but I am reasonably confident that, as long as nothing is discarded during the experiment, whatever yield may be "lost" due to the teks possible inefficiency can be recuperated by doing a "normal" extraction afterwards.
One of the things I'm wondering about, most of the "water teks" are essentlialy STB's without a non polar solvent... It doesn't seem like many A/B's have been tried and this may be of importance as we aren't even sure what the natural salt-form of dmt is (presumably dmt-tannate), so how could we know its solubility in water? It might well stay in the filtered-out organic matter? In this case, the choice of acid could be of importance due to a variety of factors...
When choosing an acid and a base for this concept to work I think it should also be looked into what "by-products" are created, their solubilities at different temperatures and how they affect the density and ionic strength of the solution rather than simply focusing on the freebasing of the dmt molecule?
As always, it is very likely that I am completely missing the point here - my imagination far outweighs my chemistry knowledge
For now, and until my statements are corrected by anyone more experienced/knowledgeable in this subject, the plan of action would be: cold citric acid/water soak, let organics settle, decant liquid, base with NaOH, see what gives, do my usual extraction on the organic material afterwards... Any thoughts or comments?
PLUR
edit - I should have posted this in one of the other related threads that aren't "no acids" - sorry for that
I've also read a number of similar/related threads (water teks) and I can see why this concept has been buried...
That being said, I do feel like some things have been overlooked, that mistakes were made but gone unnoticed, that things could have been tried but weren't...
I am going to think about this some more before I start experimenting, but I am reasonably confident that, as long as nothing is discarded during the experiment, whatever yield may be "lost" due to the teks possible inefficiency can be recuperated by doing a "normal" extraction afterwards.
One of the things I'm wondering about, most of the "water teks" are essentlialy STB's without a non polar solvent... It doesn't seem like many A/B's have been tried and this may be of importance as we aren't even sure what the natural salt-form of dmt is (presumably dmt-tannate), so how could we know its solubility in water? It might well stay in the filtered-out organic matter? In this case, the choice of acid could be of importance due to a variety of factors...
When choosing an acid and a base for this concept to work I think it should also be looked into what "by-products" are created, their solubilities at different temperatures and how they affect the density and ionic strength of the solution rather than simply focusing on the freebasing of the dmt molecule?
As always, it is very likely that I am completely missing the point here - my imagination far outweighs my chemistry knowledge
For now, and until my statements are corrected by anyone more experienced/knowledgeable in this subject, the plan of action would be: cold citric acid/water soak, let organics settle, decant liquid, base with NaOH, see what gives, do my usual extraction on the organic material afterwards... Any thoughts or comments?
PLUR
edit - I should have posted this in one of the other related threads that aren't "no acids" - sorry for that
Jin
yes
idea #1
could one brew mimosa in vinegar
then after filtering plant matter brew the dmt acetate solution to sludge
then add sodium carbonate to the sludge to make freebase jam
which could result in excellent enhanced leaf
the question is while brewing the dmt acetate solution to sludge , can it tolerate heat like a fasw solution
idea #2
brew mimosa in vinegar
filter plant matter
add excess rock salt to prepitate dmt hcl
convert hcl salt to freebase through sodium carbonate or use hcl in pharma
i am germinating some seeds and won't be extracting until a few years later so anyone who wishes to experiment with these simple methods should do so , especially idea #2 , since using any of this ideas can result in a dmt jam enhanced leaf ,
also both these ideas use no nonpolar solvent or lye ,
also there will be no loss of yeild considering we are using acetic acid in the first step of both the ideas
people please comment , share , add , experiment ,or just evaluate
edit :
idea #3
brew mimosa in plain water
filter mimosa and brew the dmt water to sludge
add sodium carbonate and enjoy ( if living in a forest add wood ash instead of sodium carbonate )
shuld'nt this result in dmt jam ?
edit again :
in ideas #1 & #2 , one could use vegetable oil to defat during the acidic stage of the brew to remove any plant oils
these methods can make extracting dmt relatively safe and easy using water,vinegar,sodium carbonate(which can be made by heating sodium bi-carbonate)
one might not need any protective gear or any dangerous chem or solvent
could one brew mimosa in vinegar
then after filtering plant matter brew the dmt acetate solution to sludge
then add sodium carbonate to the sludge to make freebase jam
which could result in excellent enhanced leaf
the question is while brewing the dmt acetate solution to sludge , can it tolerate heat like a fasw solution
idea #2
brew mimosa in vinegar
filter plant matter
add excess rock salt to prepitate dmt hcl
convert hcl salt to freebase through sodium carbonate or use hcl in pharma
i am germinating some seeds and won't be extracting until a few years later so anyone who wishes to experiment with these simple methods should do so , especially idea #2 , since using any of this ideas can result in a dmt jam enhanced leaf ,
also both these ideas use no nonpolar solvent or lye ,
also there will be no loss of yeild considering we are using acetic acid in the first step of both the ideas
people please comment , share , add , experiment ,or just evaluate
edit :
idea #3
brew mimosa in plain water
filter mimosa and brew the dmt water to sludge
add sodium carbonate and enjoy ( if living in a forest add wood ash instead of sodium carbonate )
shuld'nt this result in dmt jam ?
edit again :
in ideas #1 & #2 , one could use vegetable oil to defat during the acidic stage of the brew to remove any plant oils
these methods can make extracting dmt relatively safe and easy using water,vinegar,sodium carbonate(which can be made by heating sodium bi-carbonate)
one might not need any protective gear or any dangerous chem or solvent
Has been tried and does not work. This idea is inspired by manske precipitation of harmalas I presume and is based on the fact that hydrochloride salts of harmalas are fairly insoluble in cold aqueous solutions, which does not appear to be the case for dmt hydrochloride.Jin said:
Jin
yes
ok so idea #2 does not work , thanks brother:thumb_up:
so is idea #1 good to go ?
does this mean we can get jam from vinegar and sodium carbonate
it would be awesome if we could avoid lye and non-polars and go straight to jam
also from what i've been reading dmt acetate can be converted to freebase by simple heat so a simple straight to jam tek could go like this
boil mimosa with vinegar
filter the mimosa
defat with veg oil
evap the dmt acetate soution to sludge
mix sodium carbonate and yessssssssssssssssssssssss
only question will the dmt acetate solution be able to tolerate heat while boiling down to sludge ?(perhaps yes)
this will be very safe and no loss of yeild considering the acetic acid used in the first step
this could be perfect for micro extractions on a few grams of phyllodes to get a smokable jam/enhanced leaf easily in a few hours for few doses without the hassle of buying lye or nonpolars or doing a large extraction to save time , this in itself seems like an environment friendly policy
so is idea #1 good to go ?
does this mean we can get jam from vinegar and sodium carbonate
it would be awesome if we could avoid lye and non-polars and go straight to jam
also from what i've been reading dmt acetate can be converted to freebase by simple heat so a simple straight to jam tek could go like this
boil mimosa with vinegar
filter the mimosa
defat with veg oil
evap the dmt acetate soution to sludge
mix sodium carbonate and yessssssssssssssssssssssss
only question will the dmt acetate solution be able to tolerate heat while boiling down to sludge ?(perhaps yes)
this will be very safe and no loss of yeild considering the acetic acid used in the first step
this could be perfect for micro extractions on a few grams of phyllodes to get a smokable jam/enhanced leaf easily in a few hours for few doses without the hassle of buying lye or nonpolars or doing a large extraction to save time , this in itself seems like an environment friendly policy
dooby
Rising Star
Why the desire to avoid NaOH? Availability issues? I mean, NaOH can be food-safe as well and it would form the equally food-safe sodium citrate when used in a citric acid extraction - but I assume sodium acetate would be equally food-safe in a vinegar extraction... Basefying with NaOH would also allow for a much faster process as no evaporation would be required - evapping vinegar takes a long, long time even when using heat baths/ventilation...
My next experiment might be cold citric acid soak (or 3 freeze thaw cycles), let organics settle, decant (filtering optional?), base with lye, then water crystallisation, then optional clean-up?
Regarding your idea #1 I think you should check pH regularly if you'll be doing vinegar boils... Heat breaks down acetic acid bonds and some (I don't know how much) of your vinegar will evaporate, thus affecting the pH of your solution, and also the amount of acetic left to form dmt-acetate - any dmt that is not acetate-inated will remain in its natural salt form, whatever that may be (presumably dmt-tannate) but I'm not sure if or how this would affect your extraction/yield/purity...
The above is what I believe to be true but I don't necessarily have all the knowledge to back it up lol
My next experiment might be cold citric acid soak (or 3 freeze thaw cycles), let organics settle, decant (filtering optional?), base with lye, then water crystallisation, then optional clean-up?
Regarding your idea #1 I think you should check pH regularly if you'll be doing vinegar boils... Heat breaks down acetic acid bonds and some (I don't know how much) of your vinegar will evaporate, thus affecting the pH of your solution, and also the amount of acetic left to form dmt-acetate - any dmt that is not acetate-inated will remain in its natural salt form, whatever that may be (presumably dmt-tannate) but I'm not sure if or how this would affect your extraction/yield/purity...
The above is what I believe to be true but I don't necessarily have all the knowledge to back it up
lol
dooby
Rising Star
dooby said:
Aborted the attempt... Even a filtered acidic solution contains too many "unknowns" - even if crystals would form it would be very hard to retrieve them from the solution... A better filter or filtration method might do the trick... I may get back to this when I'm better equipped...
lol, I knew this was too easy to work
it was fun trying though
Entheogenerator
Homo discens
I'm not following you. Are you suggesting that a person just adds sodium carbonate to the mixture, and then just ingests the mixture as is? Personally, I'd rather use lye and nonpolar solvents to create a clean final product than ingest a bunch of sodium carbonate...Jin said:
DreaMTripper
Rising Star
You could boil down add vinegar, as you go, filter, then defat then boil down then defat then boil down defat again then boil down to go and maybe one more defat before adding sodium carbonate to freebase.
Then using micro filters you could rinse the sodium carbonate out with basic salty water through the filters leaving the dmt freebase..
Would only be beneficial on a known quality batch and you would be left with some polar and vinegar gunk but hopefuly not much. With phyllodes the gums would be still in the extract and stop any vapourising or crystallizing so this tek couldnt be used mhrb would be ok.
Then using micro filters you could rinse the sodium carbonate out with basic salty water through the filters leaving the dmt freebase..
Would only be beneficial on a known quality batch and you would be left with some polar and vinegar gunk but hopefuly not much. With phyllodes the gums would be still in the extract and stop any vapourising or crystallizing so this tek couldnt be used mhrb would be ok.
^No, never
mew
huachumancer
when mew suggested this idea he was told that the oils in the tea would stop the dmt from precipitating cleanly due to their emulsive nature…..
whoever spake this unto mew seems most correct after all, however
lets modify a bit.
i use a pinch of fumaric acid when spicing
doing a tea, super purified/decanted tea (as pure a solution as possible, i spend a few weeks decanting sometimes)
evaporate down until its noticeably more viscous than water, add strong basic solution slowly to neutralize acids and freebase spice
the clouded milky emulsion might separate with a bit of heat and agitation *washing machine top*
would suggest doing this in a wide mouth container or pie dish to allow maximum surface area so you don't inadvertently capture basic solution from rapid precipitation
the spice will be suspended like a drop of still warm candle wax on water, using a toothpick/lab spatula, start collecting the homophobic goo. take goo put onto another pie pan, spread it thin, let it xtalize. wash with minimal ice cold h20, this can be done a few times for purity.
for swim the only snafu in this is if swims idea effectively separates fb from basic solution
whoever spake this unto mew seems most correct after all, however
lets modify a bit.
i use a pinch of fumaric acid when spicing
doing a tea, super purified/decanted tea (as pure a solution as possible, i spend a few weeks decanting sometimes)
evaporate down until its noticeably more viscous than water, add strong basic solution slowly to neutralize acids and freebase spice
the clouded milky emulsion might separate with a bit of heat and agitation *washing machine top*
would suggest doing this in a wide mouth container or pie dish to allow maximum surface area so you don't inadvertently capture basic solution from rapid precipitation
the spice will be suspended like a drop of still warm candle wax on water, using a toothpick/lab spatula, start collecting the homophobic goo. take goo put onto another pie pan, spread it thin, let it xtalize. wash with minimal ice cold h20, this can be done a few times for purity.
for swim the only snafu in this is if swims idea effectively separates fb from basic solution
DreaMTripper
Rising Star
Or once you have goo acetate etc add sodium carbonate place in microfilters seal filter somehow and submerge in salty cold basic water so the excess sc dissolves and gets filtered leaving freebase alkaloids..
embracethevoid
Rising Star
Is this not possible? What if someone's pet dragon did a bunch of acid boils on some mhrb, then collected the boils together, allowed insolubles to fall out then basified with lye and washed out soluble impurities - you would end up with very clean spice at the bottom/top of a jar full of clean water. What obstacles stand in the way of this, I'm assuming that people have tried it before and found it not to work?
Another similar route would be to run a STB, pull the naptha but instead of freeze precip, add to another jar with water, acidify (discarding oily naphtha), fb once more with lye then wash out all the lye - leaving pure fb spice in a solution of water. Skip out freeze precip: again, any obstacles?
Ideally the target is to end up with spice precip in water.
Another similar route would be to run a STB, pull the naptha but instead of freeze precip, add to another jar with water, acidify (discarding oily naphtha), fb once more with lye then wash out all the lye - leaving pure fb spice in a solution of water. Skip out freeze precip: again, any obstacles?
Ideally the target is to end up with spice precip in water.
