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*Water Only* Tek -- work in progress

Migrated topic.
Well the question is would you rather have used things that have been used to burn skin and eyballs to create or would you rather use two ingreedients that have either been used to raise the ph in a swimming pool and or get drunk...?
 
And then one might see how the harsh energy of the chems used might influence the final result. He almost thinks that all your swis should use olive oil as a solvent. Used to anoint peoples heads. Sorry he likes to drop a bit of knowledge when he's smoked some weed.
 
logos2012 said:
Well the question is would you rather have used things that have been used to burn skin and eyballs to create or would you rather use two ingreedients that have either been used to raise the ph in a swimming pool and or get drunk...?
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That doesnt make too much sense to me.. Hopefully lye isnt purpousely used to burn skin and eyeballs, and if this does happen, its from bad use/accidents, and not because it has something inherently bad in it. You dont go blaming a knife's "bad energy" because knives are also used to kill people or because some people might accidentally chop their fingers off, or blame water for bad energy because people have drowned in it, right? And if we're talking straight numbers, for sure more people have died because of water than because of lye, so you guys might as well stop with this water-only tek or there'll be some bad karma heading your way :evil:

J/K of course, do as you feel is right, Im just putting your arguments to test since you decided to put them in public :)

(btw you didnt answer me about the IPA logical contradiction either)
 
logos2012 said:
And then one might see how the harsh energy of the chems used might influence the final result. He almost thinks that all your swis should use olive oil as a solvent. Used to anoint peoples heads. Sorry he likes to drop a bit of knowledge when he's smoked some weed.
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I think it is a good thing overall that the majority of people don't see this bad energy from the chems that influences the final result.

Because simply such a thing doesn't exist.
 
Infundibulum said:
logos2012 said:
And then one might see how the harsh energy of the chems used might influence the final result. He almost thinks that all your swis should use olive oil as a solvent. Used to anoint peoples heads. Sorry he likes to drop a bit of knowledge when he's smoked some weed.
Click to expand...
I think it is a good thing overall that the majority of people don't see this bad energy from the chems that influences the final result.

Because simply such a thing doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

Actually :d

"Owsley was convinced that the vibe at the time of synthesis had a direct correlation to the type of trip that particular batch would produce".

Don't underestimated the Juju !
 
Infundibulum said:
logos2012 said:
And then one might see how the harsh energy of the chems used might influence the final result. He almost thinks that all your swis should use olive oil as a solvent. Used to anoint peoples heads. Sorry he likes to drop a bit of knowledge when he's smoked some weed.
Click to expand...
I think it is a good thing overall that the majority of people don't see this bad energy from the chems that influences the final result.

Because simply such a thing doesn't exist.
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agreed! These chemicals are damn useful. Just cause they can be dangerous if misused (which just about everything can be) doesn't mean they have a *harsh energy* per se. I suppose this is all in the head of the respective chemist using them. Personally I enjoy working with chemicals, even with the strong ones like lye or HCl - so long as I have gloves and goggles I feel comfortable. To me there is a certain magic especially in those... you see, it's all in the head :)

cheers
 
Shaolin said:
Actually :d

"Owsley was convinced that the vibe at the time of synthesis had a direct correlation to the type of trip that particular batch would produce".

Don't underestimated the Juju !
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Owsley also thinks all vegetables are toxic, so... Just sayin'.
 
Sounds to me like SWIY has a strong affinity to the Judeo-Christian narrative. This existence, this universe is multi-valent; A and some times B, not so much A or B; not bi-valent. We have been indoctrinated to look in black and white, it permeates our western culture - that for some reason the variation of color is bad or impure, when in fact there is no pure black or pure white. Lye contains the power; the energy to create or destroy. Much like us; humans. I have the power within me to overcome any 'curse', with just a simple thought. In my experience it is us, our own souls, that are the root cause of a 'bad trip' or a 'good trip'. It is all about the discipline of the mind, the ability to direct your energy; your vibe. Fear not.
 
I think if you can use lime or sodium carb instead of lye and get the same results, that's good, cause you don't have to deal with the possibility of major accidents, and the bi-products you toss out aren't as imbalancing to natural systems as a heavily concentrated lye solution would be. The idea that the solution to pollution is dilution is bunk, and has been for ages. Just the comfort in knowing that no lye will be found in the end product is worth the extra work for some. I find it hard to believe that this tek would produce dmt that is not heavily lye contaminated. You're basically trying to crystallize out of a solution of lye, some of the solvent medium will be incorporated within the crystal matrix, potentially lye, especially with all the plant oils and fats mucking with it all.

There is a reason folks like to separate using a non-polar, it's so that they don't end up with a contaminated product, from both oils and bases.
 
narmz said:
I think if you can use lime or sodium carb instead of lye and get the same results, that's good, cause you don't have to deal with the possibility of major accidents, and the bi-products you toss out aren't as imbalancing to natural systems as a heavily concentrated lye solution would be. The idea that the solution to pollution is dilution is bunk, and has been for ages. Just the comfort in knowing that no lye will be found in the end product is worth the extra work for some. I find it hard to believe that this tek would produce dmt that is not heavily lye contaminated. You're basically trying to crystallize out of a solution of lye, some of the solvent medium will be incorporated within the crystal matrix, potentially lye, especially with all the plant oils and fats mucking with it all.

There is a reason folks like to separate using a non-polar, it's so that they don't end up with a contaminated product, from both oils and bases.
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Yeah sodium carb is very good but so far doesnt seem very promissing, right? Lets hope someone makes it work well with good yields

But narmz, lye isnt damaging to throw away, its used to unblock drains. And you can always neutralize it with some acid creating a harmless salt... Not saying the other ways shouldnt be explored, on the contrary, they should, but I think some fears regarding lye dont have good basis.

As for dmt lye contamination, yes, but if you do a hot water wash with proper shaking, I would say that any significant lye contamination will be eliminated (plus remember lye wont vaporize at lighter temperature, but anyways it wouldnt be there if you clean it up properly). All in theory of course I havent tested yet, but that sounds to me like how it would play out. Maybe someone disagrees and im open to changing my mind if someone puts good arguments against this :)
 
I'm not saying lye is bad to use, i'm saying it would make obvious sense to use lime or sodium carb if a method were found to make them as or nearly as effective. There is a certain niftiness in doing an extraction without more nastier chems like lye or naptha. It's just cool, like a home-baked lovely loaf a bread. You can stress the importance of using chems safely and that's important, but you can also stress the importance of making smart choices about what chems to use. Unless you got a decked out lab, chances are that potential accidents could be more trouble than their worth with certain chems, and it's good to evaluate that based on your situation i think.
 
endlessness said:
As for dmt lye contamination, yes, but if you do a hot water wash with proper shaking, I would say that any significant lye contamination will be eliminated (plus remember lye wont vaporize at lighter temperature, but anyways it wouldnt be there if you clean it up properly). All in theory of course I havent tested yet, but that sounds to me like how it would play out. Maybe someone disagrees and im open to changing my mind if someone puts good arguments against this :)
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Couldn't you also redissolve your final product in vinegar and then go the acetate to freebase via heat route? No additional chems needed other than vinegar and it would neutralize any lye while keeping the tek simple. The only downside is you would lose any pretty crystals for waxier freebase...but that's only aesthetic.
 
narmz said:
I'm not saying lye is bad to use, i'm saying it would make obvious sense to use lime or sodium carb if a method were found to make them as or nearly as effective. There is a certain niftiness in doing an extraction without more nastier chems like lye or naptha. It's just cool, like a home-baked lovely loaf a bread. You can stress the importance of using chems safely and that's important, but you can also stress the importance of making smart choices about what chems to use. Unless you got a decked out lab, chances are that potential accidents could be more trouble than their worth with certain chems, and it's good to evaluate that based on your situation i think.
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I completely agree :)

SnozzleBerry said:
endlessness said:
As for dmt lye contamination, yes, but if you do a hot water wash with proper shaking, I would say that any significant lye contamination will be eliminated (plus remember lye wont vaporize at lighter temperature, but anyways it wouldnt be there if you clean it up properly). All in theory of course I havent tested yet, but that sounds to me like how it would play out. Maybe someone disagrees and im open to changing my mind if someone puts good arguments against this :)
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Couldn't you also redissolve your final product in vinegar and then go the acetate to freebase via heat route? No additional chems needed other than vinegar and it would neutralize any lye while keeping the tek simple. The only downside is you would lose any pretty crystals for waxier freebase...but that's only aesthetic.
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Yes, and another possibility that we just discussed in the chat is dissolving in warm FASW water and re-crystallizing from water using sodium carbonate like explained in BLAB
 
The way SWIM see's it, if he never ever thought lye was necessary for extraction, he probably never would have bought any at all, and now that he knows it's not, he tries to come at it from a fresh perspective and sees no need. Still though, the gravitation away from petrochems is the most important first step for the sake of keeping a low profile and avoiding hazards, but why not go all the way and eliminate lye from the process?
 
Evening Glory said:
Shaolin said:
Actually :d

"Owsley was convinced that the vibe at the time of synthesis had a direct correlation to the type of trip that particular batch would produce".

Don't underestimated the Juju !
Click to expand...
Owsley also thinks all vegetables are toxic, so... Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

Owsley has a point, so... Just sayin' 😉

My intention was not to make Owsley's words a fact but I find it interesting that a LSD chemist (although he says he's a cook) holds those beliefs.
 
Shaolin said:
Evening Glory said:
Shaolin said:
Actually :d

"Owsley was convinced that the vibe at the time of synthesis had a direct correlation to the type of trip that particular batch would produce".

Don't underestimated the Juju !
Click to expand...
Owsley also thinks all vegetables are toxic, so... Just sayin'.
Click to expand...

Owsley has a point, so... Just sayin' 😉

My intention was not to make Owsley's words a fact but I find it interesting that a LSD chemist (although he says he's a cook) holds those beliefs.
Click to expand...

It is interesting
 
You could use KOH couldn't you. The stuff can hurt you but it isnt as strong as the NaOH, even in its crystal form. I haven't done the chemcial formulas, not sure if I could remember how, but won't the potassium react differently with the sodium carbonate, if that is what you start with? How will the spice react to the various combinations of KOH, NaOH, and the Na2CO3?
 
The salt ion that is attached to the spice will react with the base... I dont know what salt dmt is naturally in mimosa, maybe tannate from tannic acid.. So if it was sodium carbonate or lye with dmt tannate I would say it would form sodium tannate and with potassium hydroxide it would form potassium tannate, and the dmt would just be in freebase form to the high pH, with any of those bases (with sodium carb less so because of the pH not raising so high, but still it should be most of it). Im no chemist but thats my understanding of it.

KOH is also pretty caustic and it could hurt you bad too without propper precautions (for example if a solution with it drops in your eyes.
 
endlessness said:
KOH is also pretty caustic and it could hurt you bad too without propper precautions (for example if a solution with it drops in your eyes.
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It just doesn't seem to be as aggressive on the skin, is my meaning behind not as strong as NaOH.
 
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