We die to remember what we live to forget

[Glitch76]

I was lucky enough to come across this very interesting read by Friedrich Nietzsche. So I thought I would share with the forums, perhaps this could lead to some very interesting discussions.

Personally I don't agree with the concept of living this exact same life over and over, but the writing style and thought provoking concepts make for a great read in my opinion. I'd love to know what you all think about it as well.

Please share your thoughts and lets see where this goes.

We Die to Remember What We Live to Forget

 

[universecannon]

this was written by the dmt-nexus member 'eschaton' i think

some of his stuff i find pretty interesting. but yea i think the idea that we live the same exact life over and over again forever is odd and very off the mark

 

[Vodsel]

Agreed with UC. I agree with many of the author's statements, but the assumption that rebirth will take you to experience again the exact same life seems forced.

Not that it matters much since you wouldn't be aware of the repetition anyways, but why the same life process? Couldn't it be a personal translation the author made of the fact he returned to his same life, to his usual awareness, once his body fully metabolized the tryptamines? If he was experiencing a full death simulation, once the simulation ends you go back to base level. That might not necessarily be the case when you actually pass away.

He should consider the many surprising reports of past lives remembrance. Heck, even Sagan mentioned those should be seriously studied. How should we take them if we adopt the single-life-eternal-return hypothesis? Like playful deceptions, and say what creationists said regarding the fossils, suggesting god had created Earth with the "appearance of previous existence"?

The myth of the eternal return might be based in a deep quality of the universe, but reducing that eternal return to a tiny, repetitive figment of the whole seems a little self-centered.

 

[untimelyethos]

I was lucky enough to come across this very interesting read by Friedrich Nietzsche.

Pretty sure this won't be the last interesting read by ol' Friedrich Nietzsche, Glitch76. Have you read any other of his works?

 

[Metanoia]

I don't necessarily agree with the repetition of the same life over and over either, but maybe it can be necessary in a way. To repeat again and again until the lesson is learned. Only then can we move on to another life of experiences, and learn from them.

 

[Glitch76]

Pretty sure this won't be the last interesting read by ol' Friedrich Nietzsche, Glitch76. Have you read any other of his works?

Actually no I haven't, do you have any suggestions for a particular book?


Also I agree with everyone in that repeating the same life over and over doesn't really seem right, nor does it appeal to me either. However I still like the writing style and quotes the pdf does have :roll:

 

[untimelyethos]

Actually no I haven't, do you have any suggestions for a particular book?

My personal favorite is "The Gay Science". Yes, it is long (but it's chalk full of very intriguing questions) and no, it is not about sexuality. It is what Nieztsche would consider his masterpiece. Books 1, 3, 4, and 5 are worth reading - skip Book 2. If you are looking more for a story + philosophy "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" is another classic.

Happy reading!

 

[Glitch76]

My personal favorite is "The Gay Science". Yes, it is long (but it's chalk full of very intriguing questions) and no, it is not about sexuality. It is what Nieztsche would consider his masterpiece. Books 1, 3, 4, and 5 are worth reading - skip Book 2. If you are looking more for a story + philosophy "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" is another classic.

Awesome! :d thanks for the information, can't wait to get my hands on some copies of these!

 

[satchelpack]

I didn't think I agreed much with Nietzsche until I read this from the article you linked...

“You superior humans, what do you think? Am I a soothsayer? A dreamer? Drunkard? A dream interpreter? A midnight-bell? A drop of dew? A haze and fragrance of eternity? Do you not hear it? Do you not smell it? Just now my world became perfect, midnight is also midday – Pain is also a joy, curse is also a blessing, night is also a sun – be gone! or you will learn: a wise man is also a fool. Did you ever say Yes to a single joy? Oh, my friends, then you said Yes to all woe as well. All things are chained together, entwined, in love – if you ever wanted one time a second time, if you ever said 'You please me, happiness! Quick! Moment!' then you wanted it all back! – All anew, all eternally, all chained together, entwined, in love, oh then you loved the world – you eternal ones, love it eternally and for all time: and even to woe you say: Be gone, but come back! For all joy wants – Eternity!”
Friedrich Nietzsche, ‘Thus Spoke Zarathustra’​

I feel like this explains why we live the same lives over and over. That one time that you remember that was so special to you required the entire universe's creation, including all of the destruction and devastation in order for you to feel that one beautiful moment. Thus desiring that moment reignites the reincarnation and it all begins.

I'm only speculating here and offering my biased opinion.

 

[spinCycle]

My favorite Nietzsche quote:

"I tell you: one must have chaos in one, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you still have chaos in you."

from Thus Spoke Zarathustra


I really should read more from him. I mostly know him from so many other writers referencing him.

 

[Kurukulla]

The original link is dead, does anyone know if the author is active member here ?

 

[universecannon]

Like I said it was written by "Eschaton", a member here who stops by a few times a year if that. Looking at their profile they haven't logged in since April. I think he might be more active on the shroomery but I'm not sure, and I don't know his username there anymore.

 

[Kurukulla]

Like I said it was written by "Eschaton", a member here who stops by a few times a year if that. Looking at their profile they haven't logged in since April. I think he might be more active on the shroomery but I'm not sure, and I don't know his username there anymore.

ah right weird that he's let the site die! It's a great article !

Will keep trying !

 

[endlessness]

Wasnt this the guy who was absolutely certain that in 2012 a massive solar flare would make us all enlightened by activating the pineal gland?

 

[SomniumCupitor]

Wasnt this the guy who was absolutely certain that in 2012 a massive solar flare would make us all enlightened by activating the pineal gland?

:lol: Nice.

 

[SomniumCupitor]

Reincarnation or repetition, it's quite an intriguing idea.

“Everything is determined, the beginning as well as the end, by forces over which we have no control. It
is determined for the insect, as well as for the star. Human beings, vegetables, or cosmic dust, we all
dance to a mysterious tune, intoned in the distance by an invisible piper.” Albert Einstein

However poetic this little diddy by Al is, it is very reminiscent of out inability to control life. I disagree that all is predetermined. Sure we have no control over how the world works and we are all subject to the law of nature, but just as anything else, it all starts with the viewpoint. If I were to relinquish control over to Mother and abide by her will as an integral part of nature, I would probably feel right at home. Although, it is commonplace that people live, not against, but over nature daily. We simply take what is alloted to us and transmute it into something useful. It is not our will we impress upon it but it is our perception of it's use.

We have done a great job of sequestering ourselves from the fact that matter cannot be created nor destroyed. This, I believe, can be said about energy as well. Seeing as how our living, breathing experience can be summed up as being electrical signals in the brain, where does that energy go when we die? Is it simply energy produced from eating? Or is there a different form of energy that exists, that we call consciousness?

If life after death implies reliving the same life again and again, then there is no such thing as time and decomposition of form. We all die, so does that mean we never really die if we are caught in that cycle? All life comes from Earth and is recycled back into the Earth. I feel it would make just as much sense that if 10 of us were to die, our bodies planted under an apple tree, and pregnant women feasted on those apples, wouldn't our energies be transferred to them? We can think about it in the way of water. When we drink water, we are logically drinking the same water that some dinosaur urinated into a bush millions of years ago. The very fact that we can pre-dateanything shows that it is a continuous cycle into the future that millions have attributed to in the past.

All in all I feel that consciousness is an exponential, commutative addition and conglomeration of energies, tossed here and there for years past and years to come. When we die, our bodies or vehicles simply stop working. Our consciousness is simply the universe's way of actualizing itself. Just as our bodies have cellular mechanics, so do groups, clusters of groups, collections of clusters, and so on all the way into universal mechanics and multi-versal mechanics. Why fear death when, technically, you aren't alive. You are simply sharing the energies on loan to you.

That's just my opinion and evaluation. An excellent paper no less. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Eschaton]

Like I said it was written by "Eschaton", a member here who stops by a few times a year if that. Looking at their profile they haven't logged in since April. I think he might be more active on the shroomery but I'm not sure, and I don't know his username there anymore.

I still lurk.

I was hoping for meteor impacts, not solar flares.

Took me awhile to integrate my experiences, but goddamn it was a hell of a ride.

I still think we live the same life over and over again; many-worlds quantum mechanics aside.

 

[Poemander]

Perhaps we all take turns leading the same lives over and over in an infinite play of hide and go seek?

 

[Eschaton]

Presuming (by intuition/experiences) one whole Universe that is eternal, quasi-infinite (all possible trajectories within local boundary conditions/forces), we recur as singular entities.

This is not to say that there is only one sequenced Universe that repeats.

Every possible iteration (slice of the Multiverse) repeats infinitely beyond time, but the iterations are duly separated by the boundary conditions themselves.

That is my take on it.

The intuition of a self-same repeating life is an illusion of separation from the greater recurring sequence (Universe/God), but it is nonetheless a physical truth.