'Weak' DMT crystals?

[BobBobson]

I recently done my first ever DMT extraction, getting a very poor yield. (0.1%)

I haven't tried any of it yet as I am waiting on my Vapour Genie (I am a non smoker) but my friend did last night after a night out on E/MDMA (he likes DMT after being on MDMA). He reported that he simply couldn't get a proper hit from it. Could there be such a thing as 'weak' DMT crystals? Common sense tells me that this is not possible as a lattice of DMT molecules forming a crystal is surely DMT plain and simple. Whether the raw ingredient was weak or the extraction tek was flawed or not will surely only affect the yield (which was piss poor), not the actual strength of the end product.

The previous DMT that we had was a lot 'dirtier' (orange) than the DMT which I extracted (yellowish white). Also, after reading an account of DMT extracted with Bartoline, causing a strange asphyxiation effect on the lungs, I redissolved the crystals into lighter fluid and simply allowed it to evaporate on a large flat glass dish, scraping off the end product. This lead to a very powderlike end product as oppossed to the chunkier crystals that were formed with the first Bartoline freeze precipitation. I also noticed that the DMT that I got from the Bartoline freeze precipitation, had a much stronger smell than it had after I redissolved it into lighter fluid and let it evaporate off.

Could the very fine structure of the DMT cause it to burn away too rapidly and if so, then does this explain the reason why some people like to grow thier DMT crystals? Also is how strong the DMT smells, and indication of how potent the DMT is?

Any other knowledgeable input on this 'weak' DMT issue would be much appreciated.

 

[d*l*b]

There can be many reasons why DMT may not be as effective as it should be, the most likely being poor vaping technique. Other things that may affect your journey are set, setting and other substances ingested. General physical and psychological state can have a large part to play in effectiveness too.

 

[Global]

You're right in that DMT is DMT is DMT and I've found that impurities that may come from poorer extractions don't necessarily even hinder the potency, and sometimes even make it seemingly more potent. In any case, it's most likely poor vaping/smoking technique. You can have "the best" DMT on earth (which I realize contradicts what I just said), but if you don't smoke it right, it can mean the difference between a life changing experience of exquisite detail and dimensions to just a mild feeling from the same dose of the same spice at the same exact moment in time. When you get your vapor genie, you probably won't have as many problems, though you'll have to master the technique of that too. When you smoke it out of a pipe or the like, you wanna use an herb bed or an ash bed, with a couple screens, and you wanna make sure the flame is not making direct contact with the DMT. If you burn it, you waste most of it. When you get your vapor genie, you'll also wanna make sure you have a butane torch lighter that's reliable. The Arc Torch Lighter is a really good choice because it can light at any angle. Lighting lots of butane lighters upside down screws them up real quick making them unreliable and highly frustrating. When lighting it out of a pipe, just stick to a bic lighter.

 

[BobBobson]

So poor smoking technique is the most likely culprit?

Like I said, he is smoking in DMT roll ups with tobacco as a base. Not the most efficient way to smoke but he has always gotten good hits doing it this way before but then he had gunkier dirtier, and also chunkier DMT. I think because the DMT that I extracted was in a very fluffy powdery form, that as soon as the heat touches it it is going up in flames.

I also read that the purer the DMT crystals, the more easily they will go up in smoke.

I would certainly like for either of these to be true other than it being a case of me simply making piss weak DMT (whether that is at all possible).

 

[jamie]

how in the hell is your yield only .1% would be my question?...I really dont know what you could be doing wrong to such a low yield if you are using mimosa..at that point I would question as to weather or not what you are getting is even relativly pure DMT..I am not referring to yellow or redish DMT..because they are fine. I really dont know how you only get .1%, and if you are following instructions properly for teks posted here than you should never get such a low yield as .1%..so I wonder if you are doing something different and other chemicals etc might be in your DMT.

What tek are you using?

Yellow, orange..red goo..all of it is easily potent enough to break through with ease IMO. Smoking DMT in a tobacco cigarette is not an adequate smoking method really. Make changa and smoke it in a pipe or bong or wait for your VG..

In the meantime I am sure we can help you figure out what is going on that is leaving you with only .1%..you should be getting more like 1-2%..

 

[BobBobson]

how in the hell is your yield only .1% would be my question?...I really dont know what you could be doing wrong to such a low yield if you are using mimosa..at that point I would question as to weather or not what you are getting is even relativly pure DMT..I am not referring to yellow or redish DMT..because they are fine. I really dont know how you only get .1%, and if you are following instructions properly for teks posted here than you should never get such a low yield as .1%..so I wonder if you are doing something different and other chemicals etc might be in your DMT.

What tek are you using?

Yellow, orange..red goo..all of it is easily potent enough to break through with ease IMO. Smoking DMT in a tobacco cigarette is not an adequate smoking method really. Make changa and smoke it in a pipe or bong or wait for your VG..

In the meantime I am sure we can help you figure out what is going on that is leaving you with only .1%..you should be getting more like 1-2%..

I started of doing a Lextek A/B extraction until I found out that my pH meter was telling me porkies. So I done a couple of acid/water cooks of the MHRB and then done a Caustic Soda (Lye) extraction using 98% Sodium Hydroxide. Being based in the UK, it is a right bugger trying to source a good naphtha solvent with which to extract and after making a thread on this site, a few members suggested that the Bartoline Low Odour White Spirit was a good solvent to use if my plan was to freeze precipitate. So the bulk of the DMt was extracted ultimately with Bartoline (a heavy naptha). However, using the gunk left over from acid cooks, i done a Lazyman tek extraction on that by simply mixing the whole lot up with a pH14 Sodium Hydroxide solution, this time using lighter fluid which was then evaoprated on a glass dish. From this, I got 0.25g of crystalline gunk (there was some emulsion in amongst the solvent). I decided to clean the gunk up with a Sodium Carbonate Wash using the follwing brand of soda crystals, which 'DoingKermit' suggested was not pure Sodium Carbonate, but a mix of things. I then freeze precipitated the gunk using Bartoline and what I got back was an utterly negligible unweighable amount of 'cleaned' DMT. So somewhere between my Soda Crystal wash and my Bartoline freeze precipitation, I deduct that I am losing a lot of yield.

For my next extraction, for which I plan to have some lab grade phosphoric acid on hand, I plan to drop the Bartoline from the list and use Ronsonol lighter fluid. whether or not I need to drop the DP Soda Crystals and find myself some 'proper' Sodim Carbonate I am as of yet undecided.

Is it a possibility that:

a) the Bartoline is not extracting the correct 'range' of crystals, thus resulting in only a partial DMT crystalline output?

b) the Soda Crystal wash is sucking out DMT due to the 'other ingredients' reacting with the freebase DMT molecules in the solvent?

 

[d*l*b]

With regards to high quality [light] naphtha in the UK it really is not a right bugger at all! In fact it is available in just about every newsagent and supermarket! All the major lighter fluid brands will work fine. ®onsonol in the UK is VM&P Naphtha and is also in a slightly larger tin (133mL as opposed to 100) than other brands as well as being really cheap at the baccy counter of a very obvious supermarket.

Regarding heavy naphtha (in particular Bartoline Low Odour White Spirit) I managed to do several successful extractions a couple of years ago with it, it does work and if you get it well saturated with spice it will freeze precipate. If there are issues with freeze precipation (and you are sure there is spice in there) you can also just salt it out with vinegar, base again and pull with lighter naphtha.

Heavy naphtha will pull spice quite aggressively but it also seems to hold onto it with the same vigour, so yes, it is pulling spice.

It is also to be noted that the Lazyman Tek is a very bad tek to work with and seems to create no end of problems!

A few questions:

• Do you have a particular tek you plan to use for the next extraction you try?
• Any reasons why the choice of lab grade phosphoric acid? White vinegar can be found in the shops is edible and very easy to use.
• Rather than random impure soda crystals why not convert baking soda (again, guaranteed edible) to sodium carbonate and use that if you need a clean up step?

 

[soulfood]

but my friend did last night after a night out on E/MDMA (he likes DMT after being on MDMA). He reported that he simply couldn't get a proper hit from it. Could there be such a thing as 'weak' DMT crystals?

A couple of times when I smoked DMT with MDMA, I got a very none visual but immensley euphoric feeling. Definately not on par with DMT while sober by a long shot.

 

[BobBobson]

A few questions:

• Do you have a particular tek you plan to use for the next extraction you try?
• Any reasons why the choice of lab grade phosphoric acid? White vinegar can be found in the shops is edible and very easy to use.
• Rather than random impure soda crystals why not convert baking soda (again, guaranteed edible) to sodium carbonate and use that if you need a clean up step?

I never worked with the Lazyman Tek as my main Tek. I started out with the LexTek, which I plan to use again. The Lazyman Tek was only used on the leftover gunk, and it has to be said, it yielded me more dirty orange spice than i got clean spice from the other tek (using some debatable ingredients)

In the updated LexTek (the DMT handbook), he states that phosphoric acid gives much higher yields than white vinegar. I have also read online that the type of acid used affects the nautre of the DMT salt (obvioulsy) and thus affects the nature of the DMT base. It is said that phosphorous is particulary good because it has psychoactive properties in itself, and is used with Ayahuasca brews.

I never knew about the Bicarboante of Soda trick until it was too late. But I reckon I can easy access to pure sodium carbonate so am gonna pursue that.

A couple of times when I smoked DMT with MDMA, I got a very none visual but immensley euphoric feeling. Definately not on par with DMT while sober by a long shot.

Perhaps, but he likes smoking it on MDMA, he reckons it takes away all the anxiety and 'freak out' factor from the DMT. So in short, he is well experienced with DMT post MDMA. So if he sez my DMT didnt work properly, then there is some feature about my DMT that is different to the other batch of DMT we had. Either my DMT is burning up far to quickly (due to fine powdery texture) for him to get a proper draw, or it is just for some reason, 'weak' DMT.

 

[tele]

I think there's no such thing as weak crystals, only weak vaporization techniques. (I had to experiment to get it right = GVG + Copper mesh = perfection)

 

[d*l*b]

n the updated LexTek (the DMT handbook), he states that phosphoric acid gives much higher yields than white vinegar. I have also read online that the type of acid used affects the nautre of the DMT salt (obvioulsy) and thus affects the nature of the DMT base.

It’s possible that whilst in salt form there may be differences in speed of absorption using oral DMT (as far as I know there are no studies on this), but as has been stated before – freebase DMT is freebase DMT. It’s simply the DMT molecule, there will be no differences in the nature of the freebase DMT when using phosphoric acid as opposed to acetic/citric/hydrochloric etc. My personal preference is that wherever I possibly can I will use something that I can find in the food section of the supermarket. Cheap, easily accessible, non-dodgy and above all created for human consumption.

With regards to yield, there are plenty of reports of people getting up to 2% yield (I see up to 1.7% personally) from MHRB using vinegar, yet no reports that I have ever seen showing increased yield using phosphoric as opposed to acetic acid or any other (maybe someone can point us to examples if there are any).