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What do we do? ~ "Hiding in the Shadows"

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'Coatl

'Coatl

Teotzlcoatl
I decided a long time ago that if they catch me I'm going to say "Yes it's Peyote and it's of my religion"...

If I'm lucky it will be thrown out in court.

I wish I could trust that the entheogenic community would come out in the 1000s and protest, but most are cowards who wish to hide in the shadows, not address the issues and continue to get high for as long as they can!

Imagine if 1000 people came to protest! 1000 is a fucking joke! The entheogenic community contains 100,000s of people!
 
Ah dude. It's unfair to call us cowards. We're not. A coward wouldn't break the law by taking an illegal substance. To ignore the government is non-violent non-co-operation in action. It's guerilla warfare for pacifists. And a lot of people have families to consider. Are you happy to get raped in jail for your cause?

I'm not surprised that people don't march about entheogens- it's advertising that you take them. Nowadays they film marches. They could identify you and raid your home. Having a criminal record could ruin your life.

But I agree that it would be good if there was more of a lobbying presence and pressure groups for the entheogenic community.
 
Protesting does very little unless many many people are behind you enough to actually change the law. Look at the protests of the 60's with the Vietnam war, that did nothing. I am not trying to say it is hopeless and shouldn't be done, but in many ways it is. Unless you have famous people involved no one listens. The only way to effectively do anything with humans is to change the mind set of the people. This is very difficult and must be done through art, literature, music, science. These revolutions take time but the do happen. Look at history science has always prevailed against oppression, additionally prohibition always fails in the end. It just takes time, it is unfortunate that good people are persecuted in the LAND OF THE FREE but that is the way it is. It is about one thing, $, it always has and it always will be, they don't give a fuck about health. Prohibition has made drug use 100,000 times more dangerous than it was pre prohibition there is no debating this fact. The same % of the population uses drugs than before prohibition, thus they obviously don't are about health because they are responsible for creating the dangers of drug use. Not to mention the criminal enterprises that have been generated by prohibition. It is sick that a government would do this to its own people. Propaganda is very powerful, people actually think that these people are trying to help us. When they are actually destroying public health and safety and putting us all at risk. It is a vicious cycle. The war on drugs is an industry, one of the biggest in the country. These are powerful people, who just want a job and a bigger budget. History will look back at the prohibitionists as we look back now at people like McCarthy and Stalin. Sick sick people who exploit the people through lies and fear.
 
Yes and realize there are many people out there who are doing things for this effort that are a bit more useful then just protesting. Science is making good progress at showing these compounds are safe infact in many cases it already has shown they are safe. People just need to get their facts straight and accept that they cannot control others behavoir.
 
I agree with Coatl, I think there is a lot of cowardness within the ethnobotanical comunity to stand up to the DEA oppression. I first went to prison in 1988 for possetion of mary jane. I made no apology at the time or since for my behavior. I absolutely refuse to accept any law that seaks to curtail my hobby. Our oppressors rely on our fear and our compliance to controll us. Anyone who enjoys an activity such as ours and hides in the shadows does themselves and us all an injustice. We are treated like niggers in an aparthide system and we dont fight back.
 
If coming out of the shadows involves liasing with trash TV journalists I think I'll stick with my shadows. Ever see the 'Simpsons' Gummi Bear episode?
 
I have my own moral compass that does not rely on some trash american cartoon show for guidance. If you think the DEAs war is wrong you have a moral obligation to fight them or suffer the contempt of those who do on your behalf.
 
What do you mean stand up to the DEA. They don't give a fuck what you say they'll throw you in federal prison without thinking twice about it. What do you want people to do go and talk to them. Start a revolution these will not work. These people aren't logical, they know what the drug war does to society and individuals. They know that their policies are the reasons drugs are so dangerous and crime is its highest ever. They don't give a shit, that is there job. its a billion dollar industry. If people are still using these substances undeterred they are not pussies. If people listened to their bullshit then they would be pussies but no one listens because people know its all bullshit. There are other more logical ways to go about this then going and getting arrested and picky a fight with a government beuracracy. The mind set of the people must be changed. This must be done carefully look what happen with Leary in the 60's. It must be done the Huxley way slowly through science, art, religion, music. If you think spending your life in federal prison to prove a point is being tough then we'll see how tough you are once your inside. Prison Fucking sucks man. Prohibition may be bullshit and morally, socially, and scientifically wrong but it is the way it is. And trying to have a logical conversation with these neo nazi scum is like talking to a retarded pig (literally).
 
magic clown said:
I have my own moral compass that does not rely on some trash american cartoon show for guidance. If you think the DEAs war is wrong you have a moral obligation to fight them or suffer the contempt of those who do on your behalf.
Click to expand...

The Simpsons's is awesome man. How are you fighting the DEA? Please enlighten us. You don't know who the people on this site are, many people are doing things to fight prohibition. It just has to be done logically, you can't let your anger get to you. I know it can be frustrating but I assure you this will only cloud your judgement and will only further hurt the movement. The prohibitionists have a lot to lose if the drug laws are repealed they are not just going to just give their jobs up with out a fight. These are people who know they are hurting people but don't care. This thing has to be done safely and slowly. Medical marijuana is the first step. MAPs is an incredible organization, there are other organizations working hard to fight prohibition. I suggest you look into these things a little deeper.
 
I don't see the point of someone making him/herself a martyr of the drug war. People don't buy that, neither I do.

Trying to educate people is my prefered way of fighting DEA, ot any other country's DEA. People can change and people in turn they can change things. When I started my postgraduate studies I shocked my then supervisor when I asked her to bring me some good seeds from her holidays in Amsterdam. I also shocked my whole department. But I set my arguments straight and people accepted them. I was just lucky on the fact I was addressing a mature audience (i.e. fellow scientists)

Very recently I heard a former colleague of mine saying that he's totally happy with the idea that stoners just sit at home enjoying splif after splif, harming none and making a jolly crowd. He also said if alcohol was a new drug it would be banned instantly.

I considered the above statement a small victory from my side. I had been a proof to my colleagues that "drug use" made me no inferior whatsoever to them.

And this was the whole point, simply put.
 
Well said. Some people get so frustrated that they let it blind there logic. ALthough they may be young, when I was younger I favored the more radial approach but from seeing how things work and reading history I understand that there are more efficient ways to go about these changes.
 
Perhaps a synthesis of the radical and the rational approach is needed.

Protest is dead--dead as dead can be. Protest has become a valuable tool for the powers that be: Either one protests for personal satisfaction, and they do so in a legal peaceful manner (w/ permit) and in turn win over absolutely no press coverage, and the worst that happens is that either they end up on a watch-list or the somebody instigates illegal behavior within the protest (and we all know how that ends up). The other option is to protest illegally (freely) and to get tromped by (militarized) cops and rounded up, and in turn gain--at best--skewed press coverage and a criminal record. Protest amounts to nothing but commercial media spectacle when it amounts to anything at all.

Certainly there are solutions, but it's going to take a bit more creativity. Build and strengthen your community, pass on knowledge, think critically, embrace the wisdom of experience, make music, write books, seek out positions of influence and opportunity, and inspire and empower others.
 
amor_fati said:
Perhaps a synthesis of the radical and the rational approach is needed.

Protest is dead--dead as dead can be. Protest has become a valuable tool for the powers that be: Either one protests for personal satisfaction, and they do so in a legal peaceful manner (w/ permit) and in turn win over absolutely no press coverage, and the worst that happens is that either they end up on a watch-list or the somebody instigates illegal behavior within the protest (and we all know how that ends up). The other option is to protest illegally (freely) and to get tromped by (militarized) cops and rounded up, and in turn gain--at best--skewed press coverage and a criminal record. Protest amounts to nothing but commercial media spectacle when it amounts to anything at all.

Certainly there are solutions, but it's going to take a bit more creativity. Build and strengthen your community, pass on knowledge, think critically, embrace the wisdom of experience, make music, write books, seek out positions of influence and opportunity, and inspire and empower others others.
Click to expand...

Agreed exactly as I said above:
There are other more logical ways to go about this then going and getting arrested and picky a fight with a government beuracracy. The mind set of the people must be changed. This must be done carefully look what happen with Leary in the 60's. It must be done the Huxley way slowly through science, art, religion, music.
 
Maybe they are cowards but how are you any better?

How many cannabis plants do you gorw out the front of your house?

You say you would stand up for some cactus growing in your backyard noone recognises, police especialy by your own admission. But do/would you do it for cannabis?

You consistently preach to people to grow illegal botanicals, quite often you reccomend ones the authorities wo'nt recognise so people can hide in the shadows.

So I sincerly ask, seeing as you rate cannabis as the number 1 plant you would like to grow, How many cannabis plants do you grow out the front of your house?

Or are you the coward?
 
Yesterday evening I was rambling angry and drunk. Earlier I had had an unpleasant encounter with a police man that left me angry and I downed a few beers to cheer my self. Later I recieved a phone call from an ex lover. The memory of her still hurts me. Angry and upset and late at night, I start rantting about my anger and frustrations with prohibition and our subserviance to the DEA and its cronnies in the UK. I have no solutions to offer our predicament and apologise to any who were offended or annoyed by my posts.

I do totally live my life out there for all to see. I make few conssesions to other peoples sensitivities. I am frequently in conflict with the law and those who would proscribe my activities. I do get frustrated by others subserviance, hidding the things they feel are important to them from plain view. I do set my self up as n martyr to our cause and wonder what would happen if all the millions through out the world followed my example and stuck their finger up and said "No I refuse to hide any longer". A million people smoke Mary Jane in the UK. I wnet to prison for saying I liked it and nothing this court could do would deter me from doing so in the future. If a million people all did that, things would have to change or governments would fall.

Right now, I am engaged in further protests, this time of an enviromental nature. Two days before Christmas I stood in front a magistrates court and told them I made absolutely no apology for my behaviour. I assured the court that I was determined to continue with my protest and there was nothing they could do to force me to change my attitude. I expected to spend Christmas in prison. As it happened, I think they had a certain ammount of respect and sympathy with my position and defiant stance. I kept my freedom,for now.

My point is I don't hide who and what I am. I also know most people do. I do not expect people to follow my path but I know if they did we would change the world
 
spread the information, knowledge and love. I too see many people claiming refuge in the Shadows, and it saddens. However by sharing ideas, concepts (of things like respect for all things), and pieces of my own experience; Views have been shifted. The process, I believe, is one to be done by The People;; not A Person. We'll make it, we have to.
 
My hope is that change will happen in the future but it seems very bleak at the moment as people don't seem to want to truly stand up for what they believe in. Protest is vital in the fact that it creates awareness and the more awareness and less ignorance the better. As long as the governments and the big corporations have a hold on us and our lives because of money there is very little we can do for the acceptance of natural mind expanding enthogens because they don't want our minds to expand and ask questions. The more dumb down we are the better because than we can consume and work our lives away in the rat race without a second thought. Change is needed, time is of the essence things will defiantly change in the next 3 years when we reach 20012 that's for sure. I hold such great hope that things will change in time but im very sceptical.

Much Peace
 
All I can say is that I am glad I live in canada..I can legally grow basically all of my entheogens other than cannabis and mushrooms. Peyote is sold live and dried in a few shops here legally(I believe its protected under some religous rights act), still waiting to get a few.. its sad that peyote is only legal for people of a certain race or religion in the USA, its discrimination, plus its grows naturally in the country.

I dont even know if they are really planning on banning salvia here as they seem to be increasingly doing in the states..it would be horrible to see them take this approach to mimosa as well:(
 
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