What is marriage?

[rjb]

So, what really is this marriage thing everybody seems to be doing? I've had long talks with my girlfriend regarding this thing, and I refuse to do it just for the sake of having it done. It just doesn't make ANY sense to me, yet she can't tell me a good, logical, reason, other than "well, I just want to be with you so much, and I need to prove this to you". In short, I don't need that piece of proof and I believe that I will never get married. She's very aware of this.

For me, it's proof enough that we're together for 5 years now, and have been working out our problems, regardless of the fact that we're not always on the same wavelength. I've illustrated for her how the actual experience has priority before a written paper, and she seems to be getting my point. After all, getting a signed paper from your city council doesn't make of you a wife/husband. Just like a PhD doesn't make you a great doctor, and a school diploma doesn't make you a good employee. It's what you do while you're in that relationship that truly matters in accomplishing what you wish to accomplish.

Marriage to me is just a social ritual. Just a contract, like a worker has one with the employer. Except the clauses in this thing are usually more life changing than in the case of a job. The simple pressure of being into a "marriage" and "having to make it work" seem to provide just enough pressure that I'll not do this in this life. Not to mention all the little (or big) things married people need to fulfill just to prove friends/family/what have you that they're marriage REALLY works. I've seen lots of unhappy people going through rough periods of time, specifically because of this limitation. I have lots of real life examples, almost every married couple is a good example, really. I mean, what's this about? You WANTED to do this and now you're trying to MAKE it work (which implies the doubt that you can't actually do it)? Nonsense. It either works or it doesn't.

I posted this in the Open Discussion section, because this way it would get more attention than into the "Through the Looking Glass" section, and everybody can reply here.

Well, what do YOU think?

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

It is:
commitment
fantasy wedding for the bride
a welcoming to your inlaw's family (and your family to her)
it is to keep you in wedlock
nice gold rings with diamonds ( I am a guy and I have diamonds too!)
religion

I felt the same way you did. "why do we need a signed paper saying we will be together for ever?" but there might come a time when you would like to have that bond and special wedding moment. to be a part of each-others family. plus growing up and taking the "family" further. I gave my wife a really nice wedding in her home town, 600 people showed up, even the mayor of the town/city! It was for her, because I love her.

Not for everyone though.

Edit:
Or you could have a private wedding of just your own love wrapping you together. Take a trip somewhere nice and just have a non religious fun thing with close friends (or not) and your nice rings. Say some meaningful words. Smoke some herbs and spice and be as one in your own way. This could even be on a mountain top. Some words of love and romance.

 

[corpus callosum]

"Marriage is when we admit our parents were probably right".

 

[Lost travellier]

I think that better "to be married". First since this adds the woman of the comfort on the strength of particularity of the feminine perception of the world. Secondly since this is "shield" against "geese". But under these general discourses, necessary certainly to take into account possible hidden reasons of such discord. But how do I seem they You have. So better nothing not to solve in a hurry. Look as will form the events further and carefully fix the result. Thank you for attention. P.S - I itself so action with my wife.

 

[rjb]

It is:
commitment
fantasy wedding for the bride
a welcoming to your inlaw's family (and your family to her)
it is to keep you in wedlock
nice gold rings with diamonds ( I am a guy and I have diamonds too!)
religion

I felt the same way you did. "why do we need a signed paper saying we will be together for ever?" but there might come a time when you would like to have that bond and special wedding moment. to be a part of each-others family. plus growing up and taking the "family" further. I gave my wife a really nice wedding in her home town, 600 people showed up, even the mayor of the town/city! It was for her, because I love her.

Not for everyone though.

Edit:
Or you could have a private wedding of just your own love wrapping you together. Take a trip somewhere nice and just have a non religious fun thing with close friends (or not) and your nice rings. Say some meaningful words. Smoke some herbs and spice and be as one in your own way. This could even be on a mountain top. Some words of love and romance.

- commitment: this does not need a wedding to take place; I am a VERY committed person to what ever I do; what do you have, without commitment? A very confused person, the reason why so many people are working a job just for the sake of money, with no regard to their personal evolution.
- fantasy wedding - with just a little dedication and a couple friends, you can make arrangements that look WAY better than any wedding (all are the same, so you can see how easy this would be. there are plenty of landscape decorators out there).
- a welcoming to your inlaw family - if someone needs you to perform a certain action to gain their "respect" or "attention", then they probably aren't someone whom I want to deal with.
- keep you in wedlock / nice rings / religion - really? how about cultural differences? how do you explain those?

I don't really think the general idea has been understood. Personal gain, or material stuff, is this why people get together? Is this the underlying reason behind EVERY marriage? Because cultural beliefs tear down every one of your points. Your train of thought leads me to believe that marriage is for people so insecure that they can't get these things without a marriage. But it can be done, you know, I'm a living proof...don't wanna appear as rude or anything, but this is just nonsense to me...

Also, I'm not looking for reasons to do this, or not do it, but rather understand the whole...thing.

 

[arcanum]

Marriage is a guaranteed future income source for divorce lawyers. ( In my country the divorce rate is 2 out of 3 marriages)

 

[kyrolima]

Marriage is the legal form of binding someone.

 

[RebornInSmoke]

i never will pay for some stupid bit of paper just to "prove" that i love someone.
in my honest opinion it is simply the government being typically money-hungry. a load of pish.
it also leads to legal and financial problems if you two drift apart and break up down the line.
(in my opinion the divorce courts etc is just another layer to this moneygrabbing scam )

if someone i am with NEEDS that "proof" then imho they are insecure. you dont need that bit of paper to be "wed".
you can just as easily live together as partners (a marriage certificate changes nothing) and have exactly the same experience of a loving, serious, committed relationship without the silly bit of paper and the overpriced ceremonies (NEVER am i doing that bullsh*t christian church thing. to each their own but its not my spiritual belief whatsoever so why on earth would i pay for that crap).

i see it as this-
spend £10,000 on a wedding
or
spend £10,000 on an amazing holiday travelling to exotic climes with your loved one, some kickass stuff for the two of you and your love nest, etc etc. you get what im saying?

sure, rings are a nice gesture and the symbolisms good, but i dont like diamonds and personally, would refuse to spend over £600 on one single ring. i know its meant to be "a symbol of her worth to you" or whatever but honestly, i dont trust any human to not lose something that small that i have spent a lot of cash on. ie i wouldnt spend 2 grand on a ring set with some overhyped stones that have been hauled out of the asshole of the planet by slave labour, just for it to be lost or stolen.
I'd much rather have something unique anyways, like amethyst or ruby or whatever she fancied.
something that very very few people would have.

now after all that ^ i may seem like some grumpy gus but im simply being realistic and practical.
you dont need to waste all your money on this kind of crap just because "society" and "western tradition" says so.



this is very in tune with the kind of thing i am talking about -

Electric Kool-Aid wrote:

Or you could have a private wedding of just your own love wrapping you together. Take a trip somewhere nice and just have a non religious fun thing with close friends (or not) and your nice rings. Say some meaningful words. Smoke some herbs and spice and be as one in your own way. This could even be on a mountain top. Some words of love and romance.

 

[Pandora]

I'm going to guess I am 100% unique here. In about 18 months, my husband and I will celebrate 25 years of very happy marriage. Our marriage was NOT a fantasy wedding. It was a rather perfunct ritual to procure a piece of paper. It cost very little money. No one attended. We wore regular, work clothes. We sport no jewelry on our hands worth more than $39.

You see, we were low income then as we are today and marriage was a HUGE tax benefit. Talk of the "marriage penalty" for taxes here in USA makes me LOL. Yeah, if you crap money! There's never been a penalty for us - we would have always paid more filing individually than as dual/married.

Here's what it really means:

I have found my soulmate

My husband has been, is and always will be my best friend

My husband is one of the sexiest/hottest men on the planet and one of the best lovers

My husband is the only person on this planet who truly understands me and loves me just for who I am, nothing else. He makes me laugh every single day.

I believe my husband feels the same. We seldom have to finish sentences if we don't want too. Frequently, it's, "Do you . . . . . " and the cutoff is, "Yes! When he . . . .!" followed by gales of mutual laughter. We have a secret language that we have crafted together over a quarter century. It is filled with acronyms and in-references, much going back decades. Only we understand this. We have noticed "outsiders" being irritated with us when we do this. People have begun to mistake our voices for each other on the phone.

The worst day of my life has not yet been faced. That day will be when my husband dies. I hope I die first. I'd give anything to guarantee it, but I know that's probably not the way it will be. All of my happiness will probably end that day and the remainder of my life will be living a meditation on acceptance.

If we could extend our lives, we would do it in a moment and we would spend ALL of that time together, even if it was thousands of years. If there is any type of afterlife, anything at all, we have said we will search for tens of thousands of years for each other, for as long as it takes. And we won't forget.

I love him more than I love my own life and would happily give my life in a hot second to save his.

I am happiest when home with my husband.

When we said, "Till death do us part," we really meant it.

To me, all of this and so much more is what marriage has meant to me as I have spent a significant portion of a human life, deeply committed to it.

 

[christian]

Marriage is something that is done for reasons of Religious obligation, or societal norm. It is a human invention basically grounded in Fear. You are born alone into this world and you die alone. It is such an unnatural act, that it's only normal to see that more people divorcing.

-It intrigues me as to when people mention their happy marriages, and i wonder if they would still be together and happy if they had never had married: How did that signature on a piece of paper change all of that???...:surprised

 

[Felnik]

I think marriage can be important when kids are
Envolved. Kids need both parents to be around . I,ve seen
And experienced first hand the damage divorce can do to kids and ultimately
To adults that are shaped by it for their entire lives. It's not pretty.
Marriage I,m learning after 13 years is a difficult but
Interesting journey that tests you to your core on a regular basis.
My wife is a great mother to my daughter that's valuable to me .
She is a beautiful fiery spirit and we love and support each other.

I think the grass is always greener
And there are many ways to live ones life. I see many single
People getting into their forties and pretty Damn weird and lonely .
I also see a lot of miserable married people as well.
There are no rules . We all write our own story .

 

[Ellis D'Empty]

Laff...

Marriage is only around to keep the parents of children together. It gives them benefits from the government (funny because it technically is a religious act, but the government still controls it -.-)


I don't agree to 'marriage'. I am getting married because I have to, to have my love move to my country. Stupid, but that is the world we seem to live in.

 

[Lost travellier]

Pandora, You have pronounced the great speech. I think that in youth each of us living dreamed of such love. But afterwards beside us ended power to search for and wait and we have died. Or changed and now do not hear themselves. Take my the most deep respect to You both!

 

[Snake of eden]

I'm going to guess I am 100% unique here. In about 18 months, my husband and I will celebrate 25 years of very happy marriage. Our marriage was NOT a fantasy wedding. It was a rather perfunct ritual to procure a piece of paper. It cost very little money. No one attended. We wore regular, work clothes. We sport no jewelry on our hands worth more than $39.

You see, we were low income then as we are today and marriage was a HUGE tax benefit. Talk of the "marriage penalty" for taxes here in USA makes me LOL. Yeah, if you crap money! There's never been a penalty for us - we would have always paid more filing individually than as dual/married.

Here's what it really means:

I have found my soulmate

My husband has been, is and always will be my best friend

My husband is one of the sexiest/hottest men on the planet and one of the best lovers

My husband is the only person on this planet who truly understands me and loves me just for who I am, nothing else. He makes me laugh every single day.

I believe my husband feels the same. We seldom have to finish sentences if we don't want too. Frequently, it's, "Do you . . . . . " and the cutoff is, "Yes! When he . . . .!" followed by gales of mutual laughter. We have a secret language that we have crafted together over a quarter century. It is filled with acronyms and in-references, much going back decades. Only we understand this. We have noticed "outsiders" being irritated with us when we do this. People have begun to mistake our voices for each other on the phone.

The worst day of my life has not yet been faced. That day will be when my husband dies. I hope I die first. I'd give anything to guarantee it, but I know that's probably not the way it will be. All of my happiness will probably end that day and the remainder of my life will be living a meditation on acceptance.

If we could extend our lives, we would do it in a moment and we would spend ALL of that time together, even if it was thousands of years. If there is any type of afterlife, anything at all, we have said we will search for tens of thousands of years for each other, for as long as it takes. And we won't forget.

I love him more than I love my own life and would happily give my life in a hot second to save his.

I am happiest when home with my husband.

When we said, "Till death do us part," we really meant it.

To me, all of this and so much more is what marriage has meant to me as I have spent a significant portion of a human life, deeply committed to it.

This is SO beautiful, I can feel my heart melting.

 

[kyrolima]

 

[rjb]

While there have been some responses more or less conventional, it seems to me, in the end, that marriage is yet another money game variation. Everything boils down to that. What a sad little play we're playing...unnecessary, yet everyone is doing it.

Regarding children: yes, parents are both required in the child's life, but that's not something directly related to marriage, IMHO, so I am not going to get into that.

Thanks to everybody who's posting here. Maybe one day some answer is going to be possible. Pretty doubtful (given that we've been doing this for thousands of years, yet no one has a definite answer as to WHY), but who knows?

 

[dromedary]

There are lots of reasons to get married that are irrelevant for modern working couples. There's still a strong cultural expectation that lifelong partners get married. It might seem pointless and arbitrary, but at the societal level it serves a vital purpose: it protects us from some of the dark realities of male sexuality.

Essentially the problem that marriage tries to avoid is that after the age of 40 - and particularly after menopause - women have the odds stacked against them in the relationship game. Men don't typically leave their lifelong partners to sleep with older women, they almost universally switch to a 'newer model'. It's damaging for both men and women: for the women who get chewed up and spat out, and damaging for younger men because it reduces the size of the dating pool. It's like polygamy stretched over time. If one 'alpha male' monopolises the attention of six women in his life time and drops them after they're too old to have children, then five other men miss out on the chance to reproduce.

Marriage is a legal impediment to this process. Traditionally marriage was virtually inescapable by the man, but now he can do it if he is willing to pay an immense cost (unless he got her to sign prenup).

Marriage has (rightfully) been called a tool of the patriarchy for the way that old marital law encouraged the oppression of women - but in those dark times women were widely oppressed by law anyway. In essence marriage is a tool of equality, levelling the playing field over time so that everyone gets a shot at having a partner and a lasting, meaningful relationship.

 

[VisualAnemia]

Marriage is odd to me, seems to be more of a business than something "holy & divine".

 

[smokerx]

Pandora you wrote it down better than anyone could. I have been blessed to have something similar to what you just described.

rjb look you don't have to marry her if you don't want to but I will tell you one thing , if you really love her and I mean love her with all your heart than just do it for her. If you think it means nothing to you than what is the big deal man just go and make her happy.

 

[christian]

Marriage is just a word. People living happily together is beautiful, married or not. Marriage is like a job title: just a label, and quite meaningless. Don't be fooled by labels. Beware.8)