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What is ok to talk about with the public?

Migrated topic.
I'm noticing a theme in these last few in that because of a misguided perception it's necessary to keep things close to the vest. FL may not actually be unprofessional, but because of "optics" and people not being educated, they run that risk of being perceived as unprofessional. It's unfortunate when a problem on the part of others becomes our problems too.

I'm very fortunate. I work in two fields that are both drug-related (the cannabis industry and psychedelic guiding), so am able to generally be pretty free to talk about my experiences. Talking about psychedelics with the public can also be an opportunity to educate people on the finer details of psychedelics and help dispel myths, like when I talk to people about it at the gym or other such places. Granted, educating about psychedelics is different than discussing one's personal experiences, though a certain level of education about them and the experiences they elicit can be a giveaway.

One love
 
I have myself put a lot of thought into this question, and have some first hand experience with it, so I will give you my personal take on it. I personally am one mostly against discussing with the uninitiated, and for multiple reasons that I will explain.

First of all, the fact that you are asking what is ok to share or not suggests that you do not have clear reasons why something should or should not be discussed, meaning you do not have a reason not to share, but also most likely you do not have a genuine reason to do so either. You may first want to take the time to question and understand the nature of this desire you have to share before acting on it. In my experience, most of the time we speak, we do it for ourselves and not for our interlocutor, to make our beliefs more real, or to attach ourselves to something bigger than ourselves to give ourselves some importance. We do have the ability to learn from each other’s experiences, and I believe to some extent that most non-practical discussion is more a form of mental masturbation than it is a purposeful exchange, and I am saying this from my own introspection, so please do not take it as an insult. Speech is a very powerful tool we tend to misuse, as Sadhguru says, ‘’We were handed the most complex machine that we know of in the entire universe, but it came without an instruction manual.’’

I will share with you a concept I have learned through years of all sorts of spiritual and philosophical practices. I go by the principle that we are products of the universe, we are made up of the same laws and materials that make up planets, suns, and the space in between, therefore the simple fact that we hold together in one piece proves that we contain within ourselves the code that makes up the entire universe, so in a way we already have all the answers within us, but do not let your ego use this notion for its own selfish purposes, the ultimate knowledge still is to know that we don’t know. But from this notion, as well as the extremely individual nature of these experiences and processes, it is safe to assume that these practice are a matter of looking inward. There are only 2 directions we humans can focus our senses: outward or inward, and we can’t do both simultaneously. In my experience, if someone is looking inward means they most probably aren’t looking at you, so if they are looking at you, you already know they aren’t looking in the right direction, and same goes for yourself, if you are too eager to share or follow someone’s guidance means you are looking outward, so most likely in the wrong direction.

I also believe in the concept that we are the universe experiencing itself, or as a good friend of mine puts it, our entire existences are just individual thoughts in the mind of god, we therefore have individual existences for a reason, and we should embrace the fact that we are alone in our journey. In my experience a lot of my desires to share came from my desire not to be alone on this journey, but nothing I do or say will permit me to take a passenger with me in my travels, we have our own individual paths that sometimes meet, and those are great moments to share stories, keeping in mind we will eventually be led by our individual paths to separate again and face our own different sets of challenges, so we can’t prepare each other for anything.

Even in cultures that have managed to integrate a constructive use of psychedelics, they are often still esoteric in nature, esoteric meaning reserved to the few, most of these cultures have dedicated practitioners, it is never really a thing for the masses, and I believe that is because it takes a specific set of character traits to be successful in these practices, and I believe that anyone who does have that specific set of character traits would naturally be drawn to their own path without the need of outside interventions, so I trust nature to do the job better than I or anyone else ever could.

Relating to my previous point, I believe there to be a significant importance in individually discovering it by themselves, it for one makes it undeniable that it indeed is something that belongs on our path and wasn’t put there by someone else, which is in my opinion necessary to have the necessary level of intention and determination to face the challenges this path will put us through, and we will have nobody to blame but ourselves if it doesn’t end well, and nobody but ourselves will have us to blame for their own shortcomings, which is extremely important, because if people don’t find out about it on their own, there will always be a part of doubt in the back of their minds. It is such a huge thing, most people would agree that there is a before and an after spice in their lives, we cannot predict how it will affect them and carry the responsibility of it for them, it is not our place to introduce the uninitiated to such a major thing, even just to the concept, the mere knowledge of the existence of such a thing. Just to give you an example, medicine has found a procedure to cure colour blindness, but it is not being performed because just the slight difference of seeing a new color for the first time could have traumatic psychological consequences on some people. As you surely know, spice does a bit more than just make you see new colors, so think about if you want to take on such a big responsibility before talking about it to the uninitiated. Providing medicine to the uninitiated is a huge no-no, it isn’t guaranteed to result in negative consequence, but it guarantees the responsibility will be on you if it does. If people want to try spice, it is up to them to find out about it, research, and make it happen from scratch by themselves like most of us did.

We all form mental models of things based on our own individual experiences combined with the informations available to us, that is the brain’s job that helps us navigate the world more purposefully, but the pitfall of that is that we always want to fill in all the gaps, we want clear explanations, and when we apply this to things as mysterious as psychedelics, it can often lead us to jump to conclusions. But in psychedelics I believe this cannot be applied, there is no question whether you have experienced being in contact with entities, but that doesn’t necessarily mean you actually were in contact with real entities that have their own existences independent of your own. People believe in religions with no proof, I think one of the big issues with psychedelics is that they seem to provide explanations and proof, and one of the most common resulting negative consequences is interpreting the teachings too literally or drawing conclusions too quickly. It is much easier to learn something the right way from scratch than it is to unlearn wrong things and correct them.

I also think that being too open to sharing the contents can have negative impacts for yourself, not only for your interlocutor, like for example not being entirely present during the experiences or not paying attention to certain aspects of it because thinking about what to tell your friends when you come back, and that is also valid for discussing with the initiated. Those experiences are meant just for you, I think the mere thought of the possibility to share any part of it kind of messes with the process, like adding more variables by quantum entangling more observers to your experiments (figuratively).

One other way it negatively impacts you to share the contents of your experiences, is that you have your own individual mind to which the experiences are tailored, so discussing the contents with others and hearing their thoughts on it only corrupts your interpretation of your experiences, resulting in a less efficient process and messing with your integration. I believe the same to be true regarding dreaming practices. I think the most constructive process through which we can use them is to first have some real life experiences, then take psychedelics to process and integrate those, and then take the lessons back to the real world, integrating them by applying them into our lives, and only once they are an integral part of us is the process completed, so in order not to temper with the process we must refrain from involving others before it is completed.

When you discuss things others don’t know and experiences they do not have, in the best case scenario where they would receive it positively and be extremely receptive to what you are talking about, it tends to automatically place you in a teacher position, and in the case of something spiritual like psychedelics, that means a guru, which is a very slippery slope.

So after all, I think that actually discussing technical aspects such as preparation makes more sense than discussing the deeply individual and personal contents of our experiences, but it should only be done if solicited, and I don’t see how people could know you would have anything to do with it to even solicit you in the first place unless you have been discussing it unsolicited. Most people’s curiosity in psychedelics doesn’t come from the right place anyways, so I personally wouldn’t share on the matter unless I know for sure that the intention behind their mere interest in psychedelics is genuine and constructive, and that it is not just an interest but something they have extensive experience with. Even if they are the right person, it might not be the right time, you can’t rush things bigger than yourself. Convincing arguments for you might be nightmarish warnings to other, I think we can only negatively impact other’s opinions by getting involved and providing information on the contents of the experiences, just let them chase the white rabbit themselves, because even if you get them to the bottom of the rabbit hole, you will have robbed them of all the fun, and if you got there on your own, means others also can anyways, have a little bit of faith.

And that was all assuming you would be received positively, indeed as I saw fink mention, it can make you seem like an outcast, or even a nutjob or drug addict, and it is quite difficult to know what people will think of you, or even what they are really thinking of you at the moment. One thing is certain, whether they love or hate psychedelics and/or you, it most certainly will affect their judgement of you in one way or another. People will already have an opinion on the matter even if they have no first hand experience. Even if they have never even heard of it, they will formulate an opinion based on completely unrelated data, one thing almost certain is they will look at it through the ‘’drug’’ lens, whether they like drugs or not, and most people who like drugs think of party, and most of those who don’t think of crackheads and other street addicts. Only a very wise and advanced spiritual practitioner would even be at a stage of being able not to formulate an opinion on everything they encounter, and those people don’t need us to tell them anything. And as others said, you do not control what others will say about you to others, this could get you a bad reputation or even in trouble with the law.

Here is the most appropriate place to discuss it I suppose, I assume we are all initiated and open to discussion, but still be mindful of what your purpose for sharing is, and how it may affect you or others. I would say talking about it to the masses for a surface entertainment kind of level is a stupid and nonsensical idea to be entirely honest with you, it won’t do the people nor the psychedelics any good. I think even talking about it privately to a single individual could have unwanted consequences for them as well as for yourself, and the infinite amount of variables makes it impossible to predict the outcome, you are best leaving that responsibility to each their own.

I think the wisest approach is discussing in practical terms amongst the initiated to develop an efficient and constructive approach and gather useful information, like safety, technical aspects, etc. We must learn to trust the mysterious ways of the universe to initiate new individuals, who will be able to come here and on other forums to learn from our experiences and mistakes, and eventually themselves perpetrate the cycle by contributing. We should do the best we can to change the world for the better, but we should not expect it to happen within in our lifetimes, everything has its own pace which must be respected, all we can do as individuals is be mindful in our individual decisions, and that means doing things with a reason, and not doing things without one, or with one that isn’t in line with our greater purpose.

I think the best way to put information out is by writing a book, because it takes individual initiative to find it and read it, so in a way it acts as an esoteric filter. Because it is also such a concrete finished product, we hold ourselves more accountable for what we say, put more effort into research, and also a book unlike fragments of information scattered throughout comments is a more concentrated and crystalized way of sharing knowledge. I am deeply against sharing anything on the matter on social media, because it will indiscriminately be shown to people who didn’t research it on an industrial scale, being that you are talking about ‘’A LOT’’ of people, who clearly didn’t join your channel for that kind of content.
 
Some really good points Saikedelix..

I think there are a few reasons people feel the need to share their experiences. You hit the nail on the head with intention of sharing. Like you say, many probably share because they have an innate desire to be understood, as they feel like an outkast in a society that doesn't take this stuff seriously, and mostly deems these experiences 'noise of the brain'. But of course we are talking about things that - in the words of Mckenna - are 'unenglisheable'. Sharing a personal experience in no way guarantees the person listening to have an experience anything like that of your own. Wanting a person to see what you have seen is maybe a little questionable.. as people are on their own journey, at their own pace. That said, with a thoughtful approach, sometimes it may be a good thing to let someone know that DMT exists. From there on, they can always seek out it themselves.

Its important that we check in with ourselves and be aware what effect we may have on someone by sharing this stuff.. we have a duty of care to do those we unveil it to.

I guess the other big reason is that we all see great healing potential with these experiences.. and god knows the planet is in need of that. I see DMT as probably having an important role in that.. but does that mean everybody in the world trying it? Probably not.. as you mention.. there is good reason it has remained somewhat esoteric in cultures that use it. I don't think its an experience everybody need have or should have. Those who are suited for the experience can play their own role in the tribe.. as everybody has their unique thing to bring to the table.

Regarding your point though about discovering it ourselves, and not having it 'put there by someone else' .. at what point do you draw the line though and deem something an external or internal influence? Surely if I am living my life and somebody one day starts talking to me about this or that substance.. that is still part of my journey, and could be seen as merely a different way of the molecule presenting itself to me.

I think it gets a little blurry when thinking about it like this.. but I get it. For example though, I first heard about DMT on Erowid.. there were people behind that site that put the information up - and it was reading people's trip reports that got my attention. In some ways I don't see that scenario as all that different.. its just a different form of delivery. I suppose in that case I had complete freedom to read what I did and didn't want to read though. Going and telling someone about it who didn't ask.. that could be seen as a bit pushy.

I think its safe to say most of us wouldn't have discovered DMT if someone didn't share a degree of their experience. Otherwise how would we end up captivated enough to seek it out?

But its one thing to share our experience with someone and leave them to reflect. Its another thing to then pull out the pipe and invite them back to your house to have the experience you just spoke of. I won't lie - I have done this before. But looking back, it was an insensitive and rushed introduction to something those people would have benefited from taking slower. Fortunately they all had great experiences.. but that could have gone differently.
 
acacian said:
I think its safe to say most of us wouldn't have discovered DMT if someone didn't share a degree of their experience. Otherwise how would we end up captivated enough to seek it out?

But its one thing to share our experience with someone and leave them to reflect. Its another thing to then pull out the pipe and invite them back to your house to have the experience you just spoke of. I won't lie - I have done this before. But looking back, it was an insensitive and rushed introduction to something those people would have benefited from taking slower. Fortunately they all had great experiences.. but that could have gone differently.

This is a very complex topic, especially considering your first point that I quoted. If everyone decides to be elitist to the degree that they refuse the sharing of such information, then they for one are not elevated themselves and secondly are hindering the elevation of others. This is why there needs to be a balance with "gate-keeping." Shouldn't we "know our audience" and engage this information with them when we can feel it'll be welcomed and received? I'm not saying we should willy-nilly go out and tell everyone about it. Most people are uneducated and are slaves of their convictions. I wouldn't be here, having this discussion with you all if the friends that introduced me to DMT would have felt that I was "uninitiated." Word of mouth is a powerful vehicle for information, it's how we're all aware of all of these psychedelics.

I definitely open the door to be people, it's partly how I make my living after all, but am also of the camp that it should go at whatever pace organically manifests without rushing anything. Again, I'm an outlier here based off of my occupations and location. Natural plant medicines are decriminalized where I am. Factors of environment definitely influence one's perspective.

One love
 
You are right Voidmatrix.. reading the situation is key.. and by no means should people not share their experiences. I think its good practice though to remember that the person listening may not have tried it yet. So building as few preconceptions possible is probably for the best. I don't see this as gatekeeping so much as allowing people to have their own unique experience, without any preconceptions. We are dealing with the ineffable here..

Going into this, as long as someone understands its to be respected and is probably going to be extremely powerful, and probably extremely different to the accounts they've heard, then that's a good starting point. Sometimes simple is good.. DMT is perfectly capable of relaying what we often attempt to.

Should Terence not have told the world about his experiences? Hell no.. his accounts are a gift to us all. But we should be cautious of not taking them literally. Machine elves is a term for something that is impossible to explain.

I do think that the limitations of language here are something understood best by those who've had the experience and probably not so much by those who haven't.. so I feel a responsibility to make clear these limitations when talking about this stuff.
 
I get your point acacian, but some ways of being introduced to it feel more organic than others, I myself learned about it while researching about related subjects that I felt an innate interest in, nobody directly pointed it to me, undeniably nobody put it on my path. Surely someone put that information out there, but not intentionally on my path, I had to look for it to find it. I believe this to at least be in part to thank for giving me the determination to stick around through the thick and thin this path has put me through so far, because it truly feels mine. I got there on my own without needing help, and I trust that anyone who truly needs to get there also has the ability to do so on their own, we should just have faith in our fellow human beings, trust the process, and not be too eager to see it unfold.

Nowadays everybody and their grandmother are discussing DMT around the dinner or the podcast table anyways, so I guess we can agree that the information already is out there for those who must to stumble upon, and even for those who mustn’t. We should in my opinion focus our discussion on practical aspects for there to be as much useful resource as possible for them to find once they do come to it at their own pace, and to focus on developing the practice before introducing too many people. It is still illegal in most places, we still are to some capacity scouts mapping the terrain.

We may be convinced, but if we want to convince the rest of the world, not even to partake, but even just to not condemn us for doing it in private, we will need solid arguments. I myself am also here to share on the matter, which I think makes sense being that we are on a website dedicated to this sole purpose, however OP asked the question with the purpose of broadcasting to a wide audience through social media, on a page that is clearly not dedicated to the subject, for pure entertainment purposes, I think we can agree this definitely is not the way to share on the matter. I think it is appropriate to share with close and trusted friends who also partake, in a non-advertised book, or on dedicated websites like here, erowid, etc, in my opinion even on a dedicated reddit thread it already is off limits, because reddit has a feed and shows users things they didn’t research, and I am strongly against sharing anything on the matter on social media such as youtube, tiktok, instagram etc.

I understand your point on the impossibility of drawing the line, and I agree with you, because it really only depends on how the person feels about it. Always being mindful and letting them first mention aspects of it before discussing them seems to be a reasonable approach to me. Maybe I just feel this way because that is how I got introduced to it, but maybe it doesn’t matter how I got to the experience, maybe it would have worked just as well if I had been peer pressured into it, who knows. In my experience, most people think an idea is a better idea if it was their own than someone else’s. All I know is that I have a lot of work to do on myself already, so for now that is what I choose to focus on.

I am sure anyone with an affinity for such experiences researching related subjects would eventually stumble upon psychedelics, and find out about DMT in the first paragraph of the wikipedia page on psychedelics, it really isn’t a secret to anyone anymore anyways, it has been advertised so much that it even became part of the mainstream meme culture. Leaving this little bit of filter of people needing to make their own research and preparation instead of mouth feeding them everything cannot be such a bad thing. I myself have introduced some people a bit indelicately before with varying degrees of success. No dramatic consequences, even had some positive outcomes, but I just wouldn’t do it again now that I know what I know. I am against prohibition, but I am also against commercialisation, and most of all advertisement. I think that we will get there when we get there, and in my experience, unnaturally trying to force things to happen on an industrial scale would really be missing the point of psychedelics.

I myself also was at least in part drawn to psychedelics by trip reports on erowid or other similar forum, so I understand the value of sharing the contents of experiences, and am not entirely against it, however I think it is counterproductive for us to do so before having fully integrated them, because the other person’s interpretation may cloud your own, even a simple thing as them showing interest for a detail that wasn’t as relevant to you may distract you from what was more relevant. We forget the contents of these experiences very quickly, so we cannot afford unnecessary distraction. If you just tell the experience with nothing drawn from it, it can also give the other person the impression that it is just a bunch of hallucinations with no substance to it, reinforcing the idea that it is a drug, and that you are a drug addict living in a fantasy world. If however you tell your experience in retrospective after having fully embodied it, explain what and how you learned from it and how you made it an integral part of your life, what obstacles you had to overcome in the process, you are also making a much better case for it, and giving them much more concrete data to build their judgement around, you become living proof of it.

I entirely agree with you that DMT could play an important role in helping the planet, which indeed is in need of it, but maybe that isn’t meant to happen overnight. If and when it has to happen, I trust that it will, and I am looking forward to that day. One thing that is for sure is that it is beyond our control and comprehension, so we cannot be the judges of it. What we can however do is use the volunteers we already have to develop the process for ourselves to already maximise the use, and hopefully make it predictable and replicable, for it to be more clear to those who will come after us.

Reading your last comment, I think we are on the same page.
 
I agree with you Voidmatrix, I don’t think we should be gate-keeping, I do not think it is elitist to let people discovering it for themselves be a natural filter and prepararion, unless you think some people are smart enough to discover it and others not, I would say it is at everybody’s reach. I think hiding and never mentioning it, just as much as distributing it in the street like pamphlets would be 2 opposite extreme forms of gate-keeping, because both constitute in individuals deciding for others. Whether the gate is locked shut or wide opened, if you are standing there regulating entries, you are in a way gate-keeping. I am not for never discussing it, otherwise I wouldn’t have joined this forum, but I am not for trying to push it by broadcasting it to everybody either. I do not use the terms “initiated” and “uninitiated” in my own definitions of the world, it was just to speak in OP’s terms. I am not an absolutist, I believe every situation should be approached individually and mindfully. I do however think it is beyond our perception, control, understanding and therefore jurisdiction what even is going on in others’ minds, and that is before even throwing psychedelics into the mix, so we just cannot be judges on whether or not it is the moment for someone, this is why I think it is best to let everyone set their own pace and discover and share it at their own rhythm. I am sure that if you have been mindfully approaching this for years, you must have a more developed intuition on the matter than I do, and as long as you know what you are doing, get positive results, and are willing to carry the responsibility, I say go for it. I am all for welcoming and helping those who join, but when they do through the natural force of things, and by giving them concrete and practical information.

I do see that the cultures that have integrated psychedelics most often work on a system of teacher/guide, so I am sure there is a place for that in ours too, but these people have countless generation of accumulated and refined knowledge, they have elevated this practice to a science, and dedicate their entire lives to it. I also think that the reason why these forums even exist in the first place is because we are working to integrate them into our own world, and we cannot just copy what others did because we are not living in the same world as them, we have our own sets of challenges, so we need to develop our own method. I find our society prone to superficiality, ego overflow, because we place such an importance on the public eye. I think that should be kept in consideration in the debate too, because I see a lot of people nowadays wanting to embark on psychedelic journeys not because it is relevant to them, but because their favourite celebrity/influencer talked about it and it is the new cool thing. I think it also comes down to the kind of person, some probably do better on their own, and some probably do better with a teacher. For my part I do fine without a teacher, and I don’t think I would do good as one.

I would happily guide and care for someone through their experience, but only if they came up with the subject, asked me themselves, made their own research, and came to me with their own final product. I would maybe supply a device, but definitely not the product, the initial idea, the initiative, the research, or the workforce. I would share the tips and tricks I learned and let them discover for themselves. If they choose to tell me their experience, I would only listen and not offer any interpretation of meaning, because I believe only the intended recipient can understand the message, and interpreting it is a skill that gets sharpened over time with practice.

One of my greatest teachers once told me: “A bad teacher provides answers, a good teacher provides questions.”

Some people surely are slaves of their own convictions, to some extent at least by their own design, and we have to accept that many of them will not be able to, or even want to free themselves in their lifetimes, and it is not our place to force things that are not meant to happen. True freedom also means having the right to be a slave if that is what you choose to do.

I agree that environmental factors definitely do come into play, and my approach comes from a within a place of prohibition. However we are not talking about the same thing here, you seem to be doing it at an individual scale, in a mindful, methodical and constructive manner, OP spoke in the context of creating social media content destined to a wide untargeted audience, I am addressing the intention and the context rather than the action of sharing itself.

It also comes down to where we come from, we live in a society of quick mass manufacture, gig economy, broadcast and crash courses. I do not mind what you do, I am trying to address newcomers who under the excitement of having discovered spice and wanting to share it with the whole world might not do it in the most mindful and constructive way. I myself created an account here to contribute and talk about it after all, this in itself should show that my argument is not against any discussion even remotely related, but rather to keep it concrete and useful, and be mindful when and with who we share.

The contents of the experiences are unenglishable anyways, so why even try in the first place? We would need to create a new language to describe it, and only those with experience of it would be able to understand that language, so I don’t really see a way to share the experiences even if we wanted to.

My own personal opinion is nothing more than that, it is the way I myself approach things on the basis of my individual experiences, but we are all different, so we all play different roles, and I embrace that, so I am not inviting everyone to do the same way as I do. I am hoping to contribute by participating to the discussion here amongst those who like myself use themselves as test subjects in their research of better understanding themselves, the world, psychedelics, and the connection between the 3. I am in no way opposed to different approaches as long as they are mindful. We are in a way splitting up to cover more ground, and that is the more mindful way to go, being that we haven’t got it all figured out, so I am all for you having a different approach than I.

At the end of the day, we all have the same goal: to find out how we can use these plants to make the world a better place for all of us, and I think that is the only point that is important we agree on.
 
[Edited and improved!]



I think that you're bringing up a perspective surrounding intersectionality. In an intersectional review and assessment over prohibition you wouldn't separate the significance of race and classism from prohibition and the taboos and stigma of using drugs, altered states of consciousness, and psychedelic healing. Many people do keep these topics and concepts separate and I think that they are things that are different yet I make the argument that they do have a lot of correlation. If you instead look at how they intersect in patterned ways you can understand the larger reason for why it's taboo to talk about substance use of any type whether or not that is about drug addiction, drug policy reforms, psychedelics, or otherwise any part of a decades long toolset that fixtures traditional and dominant hierarchical caste structure in contemporary U.S. society. (i'm focusing largely on talking about the U.S. but would be interested in hearing from the people who don't live in the U.S. if anyone here has a different perspective over this)

"Kimberle Crenshaw is a professor at Columbia Law School who directs the Center for Intersectionality and Social Policy Studies and co-founded the African American Policy Forum (AAPF). Twenty-eight years ago, Crenshaw coined the term “intersectionality” to help explain the oppression of African-American women.0 She argues that intersectionality recognizes multiple oppressions as a single, synthesized experience" as described through this article



This probably gives a lot of key insight to why it's difficult to talk about with other people and why you risk putting yourself into harms way in discussing DMT; not just and only because DMT is potentially a hazard for someone whose unprepared and misguided in intention but also because of the connotations that drug use has. I actually see how smoking DMT in basically a crackpipe could carry more stigma than mushrooms which look like a food due to the anti-black prohibition on crack-cocaine which largely targeted blacks in the U.S. war on drugs.

Intersectionality could be one avenue of discussing psychedelics. From an intersectionality framework you can say that climate change and psychedelics intersect together in the same way that you can make correlation with the connection between environment.black maternal health as one example. Climate change, environment, and pollution such as that seen in flint michigan; most affects people of color and marginalized communities than it does people who are typically whiter and wealthier and much of this is able to be examined through a critical race theory lens. The existence of class struggle, caste system, racial bias in medical care derived from traditional and dominant caste system norms; and as well as geographically and demographically where pollution occurs, where different groups of people live, and what the response by the government is for the representative constituency all intersect and can be taken together to help understand the complexity.

You can use the lens of intersectionality to better understand the social benefits that psychedelics could pose to society through how humans who integrate with psychedelics create stronger bonds with other people and the environment. It could be plausible that the benefits of integration with psychedelics, especially integrating with intention; outweigh risks.



Loveall, this is what happened...

I think that prohibition harms everyone just as institutional racism harms everyone. In one part of this interview John Lewis talked about and mentions how racism harms white people and bankrupted a white man because he'd married a black women and was disowned by his family which ultimately targets the idea of multiracial equity but has to also go through and harm the mentioned white man in order to begin assaulting the idea of multiracial equity.

Classism even intersects pandemics, just as it does every aspect of healthcare.

You may even have seen this regarding people who perform work for the entire of society like low wage workers, immigrants, women, and people of color.

You can see that beyond psychedelia. You can see how everything stems together. That's essentially the concept of intersectionality, loveall.

Through this framework I return to ask any of you how do you think psychedelics intersect with something else? What do you think and what are your reflections with that? Can you see the way that psychedelics were used to scapegoat and strong man against the beat generation subculture of the 40's and 50's and then the hippie subculture of the 60's and 70's? I want to mention too that many race and gender equity social reforms were parallelly happening in the same time as counterculture movements that surrounded LSD and psychedelia and there were a lot of intersection between LSD, Beats and Hippies, and social reforms during that time and where the entire war on drugs began and eventually became an export internationally. How psychedelics and classist Cannabis prohibitions became a toolset and excuse to bring harm to groups of people that supported ideas like multiculturalism and anti-war sentiment or immigrants coming from Latin America which would change voting demographics ; ensuring, asserting, maintaining and dominating control around demographic voting blocks. Can you see how this lens could critique and caution toward psychedelics that could bring harm to other people, perhaps even through an intersectional lens you can see how the combination of prohibition, poor mental health care, widespread misconception, and class warfare; that the discussion alone could bring harm to an individual wanting to bring about a genuine discussion over how psychedelics like DMT and many others are capable toolsets and capable experiences that provide socially positive influence.

I want to add as a conclusion that I think it's important to generally avoid talking about drugs unless you are doing specific action like activism to legalize or to decriminalize drug prohibitions and focus on creating systemic changes. That's just my personal opinion

Alsoooo....

I'm fascinated by cults among other things....... Are you willing to talk more about this? It's off topic so that can be in pm. If you aren't wanting to discuss that in broader depth with an anonymous stranger or if you don't have more to add because of a lack therof i'd understand. lol haha yeah, it sounds a lot like a destructive and harmful group. I recommend "Cults Inside out: how people get in and can get out" by Rick Alan Ross if that interests anyone...
I'm sorry, I've only just seen this response after stumbling accross this thread by accident again. I totally forgot about this whole thing. Feel free to message me :) I welcome new friends
 
There are definitely dark sides to DMT. This makes me wonder in the current trend of DMT interest, how many will be in it for the long haul.

One love

@Voidmatrix ... I see this exploding the past couple years all over plant medicine Aya public and private groups... Lots of horror stories, life-ruined stories, and people doing personal articles and video statements speaking out about the risks, dangers and the associated tendency to not address it, or worse, dismiss it and cover it up...
 
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@Voidmatrix ... I see this exploding the past couple years all over plant medicine public and private groups... Lots of horror stories, life-ruined stories, and people doing personal articles and video statements speaking out about the risks, dangers and the associated tendency to not address it, or worse, dismiss it and cover it up...
I've accidentally revived a zombie thread. Hopefully it's not a big deal 😅 last comment before us was 15th of February of this year 🫠
 
Our culture doesn’t understand that psychedelics are not a one time ceremony fix/experience fix (imoho).

Our culture also doesn’t understand that the cultural, personal, locational, psychological, etc etc etc context of the trip matters hugely (imho).

We also don’t understand the context within which indigenous communities do psychedelics. They have a steady tradition of ceremonial gathering in the same way as a medicine ceremony, without the medicine. They have, very often, group gatherings with drumming and a fire which is trance like. Their Shamans are part of the community, with good brews, experience, and love. They do not carry around to as much psychological trauma and stress as civilized people do, which is something that sometimes needs to be adjusted for.

Anthropologically we are very illiterate when it comes to the religious or healing relationship with these plants/fungi/(etc). They are not simply a distilled, isolated experience - the context of this life matters.

There is a lot of cultural misunderstanding going on here.


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On a different note, the topic of the thread:

“What is ok to talk about with the public?”

Listen and witness wholeheartedly, then respond as you feel naturally & truly inclined to. It’s that’s simple, you don’t need to tell anyone anything. You just need to be attentive. In that way, you will be aware of the subject/community/context with-to whom you are speaking, and out of that awareness necessarily follows healing relation ~
 
There's more than one way to heal, there's more than one way to interact with these substances in productive ways. I think we should be careful of our sensationalism of indigenous cultures because the bias appeal to antiquity is something that I come across very often. Just because a tradition is effective for the people from that culture doesn't make the approach ubiquitously better, just longer lasting, which has many variables attached. While I do feel that in many aspects of western culture there is a one and done attitude such as the "once you get the message, hang up the phone," rhetoric, I don't think that we should abandon ourselves in favor of someone or something that has been doing it longer as if that's better. That works for them. We have to find what works for us.

One love
 
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