What is reality?

[benzyme]

yea, I observe the same.
with concepts like two-dimensional time and multiverses, we realize the limitations of the language of math and application of science.

 

[soulfood]

I guess the laptop I am using to communicate this message is reality.

Unless it is removed or somehow lost, the message will always be here for the world to read. If I have a dream that I am typing this message, if I awaken, the message will be lost. If I have the same dream again, the message will be quite different.

With such discussions on this forum, I notice a lot of issues stemming from semantics rather than the pure concept.

I think the definition of ego referred to is often different from my definition. Many seem to equate having ego with being egotistical or "having a big ego". For myself, Ego is a mechanical function of personality which deals with attaching the logistics of reality in accordance to the wants of the Id, or emotional centre. The Id wants, the Ego gets. In a dream state, the ego can often break down, as it's having to create its own reality as quick of it can read it, which is why dreams are often nonsensical and fragmented. It's fabricated on the fly.

Observations in a wake state are collected much more efficently as they are already in creation and only require observing.

I believe the DMT state has much in common with the dream state in the way it is constructed as it is observed, whether it be a construct of the mind or a construct through transmission which appears to be a construct of the mind.

 

[clouds]

IMO... regarding the DMT factor: [ Reality = low / normal / high levels of DMT = consciousness ]
With this I mean that reality includes dreaming, waking state, visions and hyperspace. Let's also not forget that we humans are not the only ones experiencing "reality". All living beings experience reality in their own way.

In any case, I agree with polytrip when he suggests that reality goes beyond just talking about DMT.


Still, I'm placing my bet in all that fuzz about Quantum Physics / Holographic Universe. I wouldn't be that surprised (but I would be very happy) if Teleportation becomes a normal technology; and even more if someday the "spiritual" realities become a little more navigable without humanity having to go all new-age-shamanic-apeshit on it.

I really believe that the best way to advance in the objective comprehension of reality is to explore it with respect but without going all mystic about it.

There may be mystics that know more about spiritual realities but that is not helping in the advance of the comprehension because here you have Tlaloc Jr saying that Quetzalcoatl is doing who knows what and on the other hand you have Mr. Ayahuasquero praying to the spirits of I don't know who. I mean, they could be right; but IMO is not helping to develop anything objective.


sigh

I wish Franz Vollenweider and the HRI team would do a serious research about DMT.

 

[tony]

I think the definition of ego referred to is often different from my definition. Many seem to equate having ego with being egotistical or "having a big ego". For myself, Ego is a mechanical function of personality which deals with attaching the logistics of reality in accordance to the wants of the Id, or emotional centre. The Id wants, the Ego gets.

+1

 

[polytrip]

yea, I observe the same.
with concepts like two-dimensional time and multiverses, we realize the limitations of the language of math and application of science.

Yeah, but you can always extract some basic truth out of it.

You could still say something like 'we´re part of the universe' without knowing what the universe realy is. You could still say things like 'we´re all composed out of matter' without knowing what matter realy is. You could still say things like 'i know that i exist' without knowing who you realy are.
The relationships you describe are still true.

True, it´s like having a 2D glimpse of a 3D world. But it´s better than nothing.

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

I don´t think DMT has anything to do with the question(s).

The problem with dreaming/altered states, is that we CAN know that we are dreaming, that something is NOT 'real'. But we can NEVER proof that we are awake and that something DOES actually exist as we perceive it.

Any possible proof or evidence that we aren´t dreaming but fully aware of the world around us could be dreamt-up as well.

The only thing i think we can ever be sure of, after acknowledging that at least our own existence must be real, is the framework of relationships that make-up this (possible illusory) world. Even if something is illusory, the way in wich we relate to it is not.

This follows pretty well what I always say. Thus, I won't repeat it again on this thread.

Reality is the sum total of all that exists, has existed, will exist, and all the possible versions of probability waves that haven't even been collapsed and may never actually exist in this Universe.

Reality is bigger than our lives. Bigger than our planet and its kindergarten solar system. Bigger than galaxies and the vast Universe. Reality encompasses Multiverses upon Multiverses, and all their alternate timelines and dimensions. Anyone who thinks they can grasp it all (who is not currently peaking on entheogens or having a nirvana type satori) is deluded. In Hyperspace, we can glimpse the vastness... while back in our monkey brains in our waking lives... forget about it.

A better question is perhaps "What is NOT Reality?"

 

[Citta]

In Hyperspace, we can glimpse the vastness... while back in our monkey brains in our waking lives... forget about it.

I think we can glimpse at the vastness through other means as well. Just by generally living, whatever it is you do. Or with learning about science etc. I would be careful to say that you glimpse more by looking through the hyperspace goggles, but rather say that, if anything, you glimpse something else than usual =)

 

[Global]

In Hyperspace, we can glimpse the vastness... while back in our monkey brains in our waking lives... forget about it.

I think we can glimpse at the vastness through other means as well. Just by generally living, whatever it is you do. Or with learning about science etc. I would be careful to say that you glimpse more by looking through the hyperspace goggles, but rather say that, if anything, you glimpse something else than usual =)

The direct primary experience of hyperspace often leaves a bigger impression than simply acquiring information about phenomena of the universe. You can learn lots of concepts, and science, and this and that - increasing your total wealth of knowledge about the world around you, but in general I think an emotionally charged experience in hyperspace will affect the user on several magnitudes higher than many of the mindblowing truths that words and second-hand information have to offer.

 

[Citta]

In Hyperspace, we can glimpse the vastness... while back in our monkey brains in our waking lives... forget about it.

I think we can glimpse at the vastness through other means as well. Just by generally living, whatever it is you do. Or with learning about science etc. I would be careful to say that you glimpse more by looking through the hyperspace goggles, but rather say that, if anything, you glimpse something else than usual =)

The direct primary experience of hyperspace often leaves a bigger impression than simply acquiring information about phenomena of the universe. You can learn lots of concepts, and science, and this and that - increasing your total wealth of knowledge about the world around you, but in general I think an emotionally charged experience in hyperspace will affect the user on several magnitudes higher than many of the mindblowing truths that words and second-hand information have to offer.

Oh, sure this is possible. I never said it wasn't. I just said that my personal opinion is that it is unfair to say that only through hyperspace can you glimpse the vastness of the world, when many other things also can and will give you these glimps. See what I mean? Who is to say that hyperspace reveals more of reality, when it could just reveal another aspect of it, or perhaps even nothing remotely close to the "real thing" at all? It was just this I meant ^^

 

[gilga_mesh]

nope.
it's independent of how you look at it

if you like to think of yourself as a pulsar in space, then cool; but we both know
you're not. I like to think I'm a mailbox, but I know I'm not. that's reality.

Actually, observable reality has been shown (scientifically at least) to change depending on the method or instrument you use to view it with. Therefore we are never independant of 'reality', we are affecting it constantly in such subtle ways we are barely aware of. But that is the Great Work then, isn't it? To become more conscious of that which can affect our 'reality'

I think Robert Anton Wilson puts it very beautifully and with less cussing than Joe Rogan

[youtube]

]


-FF

Yes I myself resonate much with RAW's perspective on reality.
Thanks for sharing
:d

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

In Hyperspace, we can glimpse the vastness... while back in our monkey brains in our waking lives... forget about it.

I think we can glimpse at the vastness through other means as well. Just by generally living, whatever it is you do. Or with learning about science etc. I would be careful to say that you glimpse more by looking through the hyperspace goggles, but rather say that, if anything, you glimpse something else than usual =)

The direct primary experience of hyperspace often leaves a bigger impression than simply acquiring information about phenomena of the universe. You can learn lots of concepts, and science, and this and that - increasing your total wealth of knowledge about the world around you, but in general I think an emotionally charged experience in hyperspace will affect the user on several magnitudes higher than many of the mindblowing truths that words and second-hand information have to offer.

Oh, sure this is possible. I never said it wasn't. I just said that my personal opinion is that it is unfair to say that only through hyperspace can you glimpse the vastness of the world, when many other things also can and will give you these glimps. See what I mean? Who is to say that hyperspace reveals more of reality, when it could just reveal another aspect of it, or perhaps even nothing remotely close to the "real thing" at all? It was just this I meant ^^

I didn't mean to imply that Hyperspace was the only way to glimpse it... in fact, I am pretty sure I said that nirvanic satoris would do it as well. Heheheh.

Actually, what I wanted to say was that unless our minds are thrust into multidimensionality, we have no ability to grasp the multidimensional nature of the vast infinite thing we call reality. This is shown in spades when one comes down from Hyperspace (or from deeply cosmic meditation or multi-dimensional dreaming) and has to repack their minds into their 3-4 D reality. Much of the experience simply won't fit.

 

[polytrip]

I couldn´t help noticing btw, that joe rogan often doesn´t finish his sentences, but instead just when he´s trying to make a point and what the fuck....

 

[Hyperspace Fool]

Joe gets a lot of shit because he happened to accidentally become a poster boy for DMT (as well as nootropics and sensory deprivation tanks), but he makes no claims at being an expert, and he is actually a pretty decent guy for a comic.

He's not just making dick and shit jokes (usually), but actually gets people to think a bit. If you watch his podcast once in a while (The Joe Rogan Experience) you can see that he gets some incredible guests from time to time. In the past couple weeks he has had Bruce Lipton and Shane Smith on. His Ustream feed is here: http://www.ustream.tv/user/Joe_Rogan and if you want to have your mind blown, do your self a favor and listen to the Shane Smith episode. http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/18976205

Shane is from Vice.com and he talks about the insane journalism he does going to Liberia and interviewing cannibals, exposing North Korean slave camps in Siberia, and even more crazy stuff. Skip the promo and go to like 1:30 to 2:00 and listen. If after 5 minutes, your mind isn't completely freaking out, you are not paying attention.

Anyway, give Joe a break. By comic standards, he is a pretty solid guy. Jim Carrey, Doug Stanhope, and the late Bill Hicks are like the only guys who are as thoughtful comedians... at least there aren't that many who are as candid and open minded.

 

[universecannon]

i think joes a good guy. I mean at least he's willing to talk about these things and bring it to peoples attention

i watched this one with graham hancock a few months ago- it was really good