well i like to think that "Most civilized people today are out of touch with reality because they confuse the world as it is with the world as they think about it, talk about it, and describe it. For on the one hand there is the real world and on the other the whole system of symbols about this world that we have in our minds. They are all very useful symbols, all our civilization depends on it but like all good things they have their disadvantages And the principal disadvantage of symbols is that we confuse them with reality. Like we confuse money with actual wealth and our names about ourselves, our ideas of ourselves, our images of ourselves with ourselves. Of course reality from the philosopher's point of view is a dangerous word. A philosopher will ask me what do I mean by reality. Am I talking about the physical world of nature or am I talking about the spiritual world or what? And to that I have a very simple answer: When we talk about the material world it is actually a philosophical concept. And if I say that reality is spiritual it is also a philosophical concept.And reality itself is not a concept, reality is" -alan watts ( http://gnosis474.blogspo...2011/08/reality-is.html ) ... umm well , here is where it gets tricky , could there be a clear full answer to the question " what is reality " or is it a quest to be followed until the end of time , as a thinker i find myself getting more lost the more i look into this subject and it sometimes gets quite irritating because i feel that the more i know the less i am sure about these things which leads me back to question the reality that i am in and if its the real one , the only one or just a concept designed by the body / mind / soul to question our existence , i believe finding this answer is nearly impossible but inevitable maybe through death of the body and the separation from this existence but it is hard to live with this burden , so what to do ? ... i think that through the exploration of the mind with psychedelics can guild the way to these answers , but in the end for me i haven't found the solid proof that would ease my mind to the understatement of it and i look at my way of thinking as cursed and blessed at the same time , so i stay here stuck in this present reality i am in , looking , thinking and searching for answers i may never find ...
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what is reality ?
- Thread starter ammmazon
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Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
i have never found a satisfying definition to that word.
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
i posit to you, that you have not been unsober enough yet.axl617 said:
also, if you want a more pragmatic approach, this thread is a MUST.
LibertyforAll
Claro in Vitam
Parsh is almost fully right .... I think over-doing any substance does disconnect you from living, waking reality.
Depending on what you want this is good or bad. IMO though, a balance is important, though certainly shamans didn't 'balance' waking life and a spiritual one; what you desire makes the difference suppose
Depending on what you want this is good or bad. IMO though, a balance is important, though certainly shamans didn't 'balance' waking life and a spiritual one; what you desire makes the difference suppose
yes , true but in some societies like mine maintaining a balance between the two states of reality is difficult , even the lightest type of drug can give you that odd sense that you haven't quite adapted to your normal daily life , for example i am a big fan of cannabis but when i enjoy a week full of smoking sessions then spend 3 days sober i get the feeling that this reality is missing something and i feel like i cant operate at my full sober awareness capacity if that's what u want to call it , its like i need to shut my mind and become a sheep in order to live and communicate with the materialists and people condensed in their material lives ...
form is emptiness
Rising Star
"Reality is a feeling" - 'Don Juan Matus'
yes that's what people say , but is this what you really believe ? because i would really like to know how people view reality and what they think of it , in doing this i think everyone has his own vision and believes and when many people gather and share these thoughts to it would be like gathering pieces of a puzzle , which means the answer to "what is reality" could be found when we unite and share our views and thoughts ...
Well now I see reality as a super complex alter-reality that is possibly much like a virtual reality. Often times I get a strong feeling that it's not so real as normally felt. Kind of like de-realization but much more calm. Hyperspace also seems like something of the sort to me.
The common terminology for reality from what I feel is that reality means real place. I dont think there is a real place. Just a bunch of places that when we reside in it, it becomes that reality.
The common terminology for reality from what I feel is that reality means real place. I dont think there is a real place. Just a bunch of places that when we reside in it, it becomes that reality.
..without offering an ultimate definition, i would say that reality is relative to the consciousness perceiving it..
in other words you can't separate the 'object' from the 'observer'..
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in other words you can't separate the 'object' from the 'observer'..
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Reality is, by my own definition, the sum total of all that has been experienced, or perceived, by an individual. My experience or perception of a waking reality, a dream, or hyperspace, or an illusion - and yes, even a "faulty" memory of any of the above - is "real" in the sense that it contributes to my cognitive awareness and my own personal construction of a subjective "reality". A loop, indeed. But any subjective reality will be, by definition, a closed loop to the individual, by virtue of our own five senses being our only source of input (to the extent of our present knowledge), and that this very loop is in constant interpretation of itself, and even often falsely.
The working definition of OBJECTIVE reality, on the other hand, is the sum total of all phenomena that can be universally corroborated AND reproduced. And yes, the more astute will note that this "all phenomena" is restricted solely to input from the five senses - our only means of measurement. The difference being that it can be experienced from individual to individual in a manner that is, for all intents and purposes, identical. And can be reproduced, consistently. And consistently interpreted identically by (theoretically) any individual who experiences the phenomena in question with any or all of their five senses. Anything that cannot be reproduced, or experienced by more than one individual, must be met - at the very least - with suspicion in regards to claims of its "reality" (of the working "objective" variety, of course - see below).
So what one considers "real" can be one or the other or both. "Reality", however, (the sum total of the subjectively real or the objectively real) is truly a two sided coin: that which we know to be true and real by corroboration and reproducibility and, on the flip-side, that which we know to be true and real for ourselves.
I have chosen the term "working definition of objective reality" carefully, in recognition of the limitations of the cartesian COGITO ERGO SUM - that all one can truly know is that one exists, by virtue of having thought that very thought. In other words, for those unfamiliar, there is no way of "proving" that there is anything else out there beyond your own mind. Thus the term "working" - in whatever system this is (actually existing/figment of god's imagination/dream within a dream/brain in a vat), a working "objective" reality is defined by consistency and consistency alone - but can in no way be mistaken for a REAL OBJECTIVE REALITY, which is categorically unknowable.
My head is spinning. (subjectively
)
JBArk
The working definition of OBJECTIVE reality, on the other hand, is the sum total of all phenomena that can be universally corroborated AND reproduced. And yes, the more astute will note that this "all phenomena" is restricted solely to input from the five senses - our only means of measurement. The difference being that it can be experienced from individual to individual in a manner that is, for all intents and purposes, identical. And can be reproduced, consistently. And consistently interpreted identically by (theoretically) any individual who experiences the phenomena in question with any or all of their five senses. Anything that cannot be reproduced, or experienced by more than one individual, must be met - at the very least - with suspicion in regards to claims of its "reality" (of the working "objective" variety, of course - see below).
So what one considers "real" can be one or the other or both. "Reality", however, (the sum total of the subjectively real or the objectively real) is truly a two sided coin: that which we know to be true and real by corroboration and reproducibility and, on the flip-side, that which we know to be true and real for ourselves.
I have chosen the term "working definition of objective reality" carefully, in recognition of the limitations of the cartesian COGITO ERGO SUM - that all one can truly know is that one exists, by virtue of having thought that very thought. In other words, for those unfamiliar, there is no way of "proving" that there is anything else out there beyond your own mind. Thus the term "working" - in whatever system this is (actually existing/figment of god's imagination/dream within a dream/brain in a vat), a working "objective" reality is defined by consistency and consistency alone - but can in no way be mistaken for a REAL OBJECTIVE REALITY, which is categorically unknowable.
My head is spinning. (subjectively
)JBArk
I always found it more easy to deal with subcategories of reality - like physical reality: that which can be measured physically through physical interactions - or experiential reality: all that one experiences (dreams, wake states, altered states, etc.) - or abstract mathematical reality: numbers and formal systems...
perhaps with these subcategories one can define more clearly what an ilusion is. One definition would be: an element from experiential reality mistaken for - but not - an element co-existing in physical reality. This element can be an event, an object, a person or whatever.
perhaps with these subcategories one can define more clearly what an ilusion is. One definition would be: an element from experiential reality mistaken for - but not - an element co-existing in physical reality. This element can be an event, an object, a person or whatever.
Parshvik Chintan
Esteemed member
this is a compelling definition...Ryusaki said:
of course, that would make dreams and hallucinations included in "reality"
the general consensus seems to think these experiences are "not real" (whatever that means)
“The world is full of magic things, patiently waiting for our senses to grow sharper.”
well i have been doing some research and well reality cant be squeezed into a simple definition because there are too many factors that define reality and each factor differs from person to person , leaving everyone with a point of view depending on their way of life and believes . i am a muslim and i live in a society with a lot of religious people and i asked a few people and i found that most of the religious people described reality an temporary material world and they connected their definition of reality with religion its self saying that this temporary reality is a test for when the body dies the soul / mind / consciousnesses what ever we represent goes to a different reality that the mind cannot possibly imagine but they also said before entering this after life reality a person gets judged by his actions which may lead him to eternal heaven ( which i didn't seem to agree on but who knows ) i mean the word "eternity" just doesnt sound convincing or my mind isnt ready or isnt capable of believing it and on the other hand a temporary hell because most of them believe that the god / allah / higher power is a merciful force , soo at the end we will all be in this eternal heaven ?
as for the non religious people , some believe that when the body dies thats it , good game / the end , i didnt agree on this too but then again we dont have solid proof what is waiting for us after death , and some also said you die and your soul is transferred to a reality where u await to be resent to this reality as a different object in it , like a human , animals and plants , very close to reincarnation ...
so after talking these people where have i ended up ? well i find myself going in circles and returning to the thought that your reality is what you see . everything and everyone wether you see them or not they are there , kind of like being the center of the universe and everyone , everyplace you interact with is like a projection to fit you reality and state of mind , leaving each person with a unique reality , but in the other hand it could that we all share the same reality and we effect each other , i just dont know , there are so many possibilities and so little proof
as for the non religious people , some believe that when the body dies thats it , good game / the end , i didnt agree on this too but then again we dont have solid proof what is waiting for us after death , and some also said you die and your soul is transferred to a reality where u await to be resent to this reality as a different object in it , like a human , animals and plants , very close to reincarnation ...
so after talking these people where have i ended up ? well i find myself going in circles and returning to the thought that your reality is what you see . everything and everyone wether you see them or not they are there , kind of like being the center of the universe and everyone , everyplace you interact with is like a projection to fit you reality and state of mind , leaving each person with a unique reality , but in the other hand it could that we all share the same reality and we effect each other , i just dont know , there are so many possibilities and so little proof
ammmazon said:
This part of your post (highlighted in red) is directly ripped from an Alan Watts talk ( here is the exact quote Reality is... ) . It would be nice if you could give the guy some credit instead of blatantly acting as if you yourself said all of that....:? (insert massive face palm here)
As synchronicity would have it...after first reading this thread title- before having yet entered the thread- i searched out that exact quote because it stuck out in my memory...After finding it (one of the search results actually referred me to this thread..lol), i then clicked on this thread only to re-read the same exact thing...Wierd :lol:
well im so sorry for that and i dont intend on taking credit for anyones work , but this quote was the spark that lead me into thinking about this subject , as i heard it in a song and didnt know who was the guy behind it and at the time i didn't quite care who said it because the meaning it had was so immense to me , this is the song
, so i say sorry again if i have offended anyone and i just wanted to show you what the quote got me thinking that is all ... my apologies
Then make sure you use the quote function and/or some sort of citation. Stealing words is the same, if not worse, than stealing anything else. There are many bright minds at the Nexus and you will lose respect very quickly claiming thoughts or ideas as your own.ammmazon said:
Consider this a warning and please do not let it happen again. The quote function is very easy to use. This would be grounds for expulsion from any university and the DMT-Nexus considers itself the Entheogenic University.
Thank you for understanding.
