What's the highest temperature freebase can withstand

[PsyDuckmonkey]

I've been fishing around, and so far hadn't found this data point yet, only vague allusions. 180C seems to be the consensus for vaporizing freebase, and there are sentences dropped here and there like "at much higher temperatures DMT will burn, producing less potent and harsh smoke". Well I'm really curious what's "much higher"?

What is the temperature below which DMT freebase doesn't burn at all?

At 250C it seems to burn. I tried heating a crack pipe with a hot air gun dialed in to 250C, and it burned quite a bit of spice, leaving a thick brown residue. Does someone have the data for this? What's the lowest temperature that burns freebase?

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Well I thought 150 - 165 °C is the perfect temperature to evaporate it, I am really sure that this is the correct number ;O

Also it seems that all *Conduction* Heating Systems always burn spice, which is really strange to me, as I thought this would be a better method than *Convection* (Convection = Pipe where you inhale hot air through Spice like GVG, Conduction = you heat spice through the wall of your pipe like the pipe you mentioned).

I read that already at 170 °C the vapor is not that smooth anymore and starts getting nasty.

What I recommend is:

Building something like the *Green Buddha* (its here on the forums), this is a DIY-clone of the GVG and with this you can totally adjust the heat with your Torch Lighter and evaporate Freebase ultimately smooth.

I think this is a better option than Changa, also IMO Conduction Systems are not as great at all, even though the *Yocan Pen* was praised as one - but I dont really agree ... : /

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Interesting post. This kind of question sets me wondering whether it's purely thermal decomposition or if oxygen plays a role. What would happen if DMT was heated by a stream of hot argon? Could a vaporizer be made that utilises a stream of hot inert gas? Would it perhaps be necessary to add oxygen back into the vapours to prevent asphyxiation?

And at that point it starts to sound hopelessly over-engineered

PsyDuckmonkey, have you calibrated the temperature of your hot air gun? This would be desirable for the data to be reliably useful.

 

[PsyDuckmonkey]

PsyDuckmonkey, have you calibrated the temperature of your hot air gun? This would be desirable for the data to be reliably useful.

Yep, I started with that. It's reasonably stable and correct with a plus/minus 5 degree error.

 

[Asher7]

Where is the vaporization point we are looking for at, before or after the boiling point? Looks like if 305F is a good starting point then we’re shooting past 212. Is the 305F the “exact moment” vapor starts appearing or would vapor begin to appear at a lower temp but 305 is the best temp for hit worthy vapor?

Anyone got a temp controlled vape mod?

 

[DansMaTete]

With a volcano, up to 230°C no burned or harsh vapor (or very lightly). My setup is 220°C.

 

[Asher7]

Would you mind listing your set up? I’m trying to figure a way to do a “conversion equasion” for people (like myself) who don’t run temp control. (I’ve not ever gotten tc wire to try out yet).

What’s the rundown on your mod, tank, coil count/style and then ohms, volt, watts and battery specs? Is the volcano a hand held or one of those table units that fills bags?

 

[PsyDuckmonkey]

The Volcano is the big stainless steel cone (it actually is shaped like a volcano) that fills bags. It's a convection vaporizer, so it doesn't have a tank, coils, batteries, or any of that stuff. You put in a liquid pad, put the spice on that, and fire away. What happens is that basically a big heavy hairdryer starts blowing controlled temperature air through that, into the balloon.

 

[padawan]

I've found that 215-220 degC in a Volcano Digit is about right. Beyond that I can feel harshness, and much less the vapour is too thin.

 

[RoundAbout]

Interesting post. This kind of question sets me wondering whether it's purely thermal decomposition or if oxygen plays a role. What would happen if DMT was heated by a stream of hot argon? Could a vaporizer be made that utilises a stream of hot inert gas? Would it perhaps be necessary to add oxygen back into the vapours to prevent asphyxiation?

And at that point it starts to sound hopelessly over-engineered

Sorry if this is off topic, but below is a quote about a conduction vape filled with Ar, apparently it's used by the Temple of Awakened Divinity's (T.O.A.D.) for synthetic 5-MeO-DMT... it's called the "Lamp of Invisible Light":

"The Lamp of Invisible Light" which is an argon gas piston vaporizer utilized to administer highly accurate doses in the most efficient manner possible. However, this could easily apply to other, more common methods of administration, that effectively allow for full vaporization to occur. The pipe was made from a glass cylinder approximately 6 inches tall by 2 inches in diameter. On the bottom was a brass plate with a hole drilled and a small brass pipe stem was affixed. Inside the tube was a moveable piston with a leather seal. The crystals were placed on the brass plate and the tube was filled with Argon gas (used by wine connoisseurs to prevent oxidation) A butane flame was held under the brass plate until the carefully measured 15 mg of magical substance was completely vaporized, filing the pipe with cottony smoke. We inhaled the vapor in one large breath, until the piston moved down to the bottom of the pipe.

Not even a stream of Ar and it's already sounding pretty fancy. Sounds like they can get away with conduction in the presence of Ar... or at least that sounds like the idea behind this contraption.

 

[sbios]

seems to me it has a lot to do with the mod and atomizer in how the heating process goes so the TC setting is not accurate in how fast the actual temp reaches at the point. From couple sources online that dmt boiling point ranges from 60 C to 80 C. So with the more efficient setup, anything above 200 C might already risk burning the spice. I've had a close call using the same temp setting from a previous mod build to the new mod setup.

 

[g2x666]

I know this is pretty old, but I would just like to say breathing in argon is definitely not something you want to do as it (obviously since this was the purpose you brought it up for) displaces oxygen. A couple deep breaths and it displaces it in enough of your blood and youre dead. I only know this because my previous job (stainless steel tig welding, mostly building tanks for dairy and pharmaceutical manufacturing) someone left an argon line for back purging a weld running in a tank that had no outlet on the bottom, forgot about it, went in after break, and died in the bottom of the tank. I'm guessing a hit or 2 of DMT/argon mix wouldnt kill ya but definitely kill a couple brain cells from the lack of oxygen lmao. Just throwing it out there for anyone getting any fancy ideas lmao

 

[Icon]

I know this is pretty old, but I would just like to say breathing in argon is definitely not something you want to do as it (obviously since this was the purpose you brought it up for) displaces oxygen. A couple deep breaths and it displaces it in enough of your blood and youre dead. I only know this because my previous job (stainless steel tig welding, mostly building tanks for dairy and pharmaceutical manufacturing) someone left an argon line for back purging a weld running in a tank that had no outlet on the bottom, forgot about it, went in after break, and died in the bottom of the tank. I'm guessing a hit or 2 of DMT/argon mix wouldnt kill ya but definitely kill a couple brain cells from the lack of oxygen lmao. Just throwing it out there for anyone getting any fancy ideas lmao

That is tragic. I imagine Argon is especially dangerous since it is heavier than air, enabling that tank trap. Would nitrogen be less dangerous when it comes to inhaling inert gas?

I've had the thought before of using some kind of inert gas through the volcano, to see if I notice a difference. Oxygen deprivation crossed my mind, but maybe it could be overcome with some kind of breathing pattern that flushes and replenishes oxygen between hits.

I think the only difference would be less influence from oxygen potentially degrading it during the heating, phase change, or aerosol / vapor stage. I'm not sure which if any of those stages are susceptible, but if it's mostly the heat and phase change that are susceptible, one could re-introduce oxygen to the DMT vapor after it has cooled down.

I've measured the temperature of the air stream coming off the volcano with different lengths of tubing. The temperature rapidly drops within inches, by a foot away (seconds) it is nearly room temp. Maybe that's why it produces more of an aerosol than a true vapor. If you could heat the airstream for several feet, like a chimney, even the aerosol droplets might vaporize. Not sure if that would be advantageous since I've read in a vape study that most true vapors actually get exhaled; but it would be interesting. Anyway, for the aerosol, it would be easy enough to fill the bag 80% with DMT-nitrogen, let it cool a few seconds, then fill the last 20% with oxygen.

Then there's antioxidative DMT salts. I haven't seen clarification whether DMT-Benzoate vaporizes / aerosolizes as DMT-Benzoate, or separately as DMT and Benzoic acid. But if it stays together until it hits the lung that might be the best solution.