E-mesh - Temperature Control (TC) - TCR values

[pantostao]

Hello, I've had my fair share of success when using the e-mesh method. (thanks to @Aum_Shanti , @Propello , and everyone else who contributed to the development of this technique).

I've read it all, and also tried it all. It definitely works as advertised: Smooth vapor, amazing efficiency, and safe to use.

But I (and lots of other users) are having trouble with the consistency of Temperature Control mode vs Power mode.

In theory, TC mode should be the panacea: It should be impossible to burn spice and it should be novice-friendly as it doesn't matter how you toke because the mesh should be at the same constant temperature. But in years of trial and error, I don't seem to find a way to set it up so that it's really consistent and reliable:

- I have a mod that has accurate TC mode (Geekvape Aegis Solo mk1)
- I have 2 working RDAs (Mesh Pro clones) with clean contacts and none of the common quality control problems
- I use SS316L mesh (#200), sold by VandyVape, 75 microns size
- I know how to get an accurate readout of the mesh resistance at room temperature
- I know that I should burn it before reading in order for it to stabilize resistance
- My mesh is consistently shaped: No hard folds or cuts.


But, after I make sure everything is set up, there's a ton of variability in the settings I need to use.

For starters, I try:
- Power set around 30W
- Temperature set around 200ºC (= 392ºF)
- TCR defaults to 105 for stainless steel, but I've found this to be incorrect, and the most annoying one to get right.
At this default, my mesh doesn't get hot enough, so I need to get it up to TCR 160-180 for it to work. Some other users report having to dial it down to about 090.

Is there a way to correctly predict or measure what TCR value is the optimal one in my setup?

Does it matter if the TCR isn't correct, if the mesh gets to the correct temperature?

Thank you very much for your insights

 

[fractals4life]

The power setting is a maximum power that TC is allowed to use, so maybe it's a bit low?

You could observe the power being used during a toke ( it need not be a loaded mesh, we just need the airflow to be the same as when you are really vaping ) and if it hits the max then you need to increase it a bit so it can achieve the temperature you're aiming for.

 

[pantostao]

The power setting is a maximum power that TC is allowed to use, so maybe it's a bit low?

You could observe the power being used during a toke ( it need not be a loaded mesh, we just need the airflow to be the same as when you are really vaping ) and if it hits the max then you need to increase it a bit so it can achieve the temperature you're aiming for.

I think the opposite might be true. If I set the TCR to 105, it never exceeds around 5W of power. When i set it to 175, it rises to around 9W or so IIRC.

All of this is without any air flow. If I blow on the mesh, of course W gets higher, but it never reaches 30W without triggering the protection. (But I don't rememeber the exact numbers right now, and they depend on the blowing force). Probably around 18W or so maximum.

 

[Ernestine]

Before i stopped using TCR, I used whatever temperature was need to achieve a good vaporisation and ignored the indicated theoretical temperature. However I came to find that power or wattage mode was really much simpler in the end.

About a year or more ago I stopped using mesh entirely and switched to a RTA and now a dual coil tank.
Good riddance to mesh malfunctions like the spice flowing or dripping off the mesh with larger loads and fiddling about with loading crystals in the first place.

I suppose we may find that inhaling even tiny amounts of PG is terrible for you but the ease of use and flexibility of a juice tank is so much less hassle than mesh that I would hate to have to go back.

 

[pantostao]

Before i stopped using TCR, I used whatever temperature was need to achieve a good vaporisation and ignored the indicated theoretical temperature. However I came to find that power or wattage mode was really much simpler in the end.

About a year or more ago I stopped using mesh entirely and switched to a RTA and now a dual coil tank.
Good riddance to mesh malfunctions like the spice flowing or dripping off the mesh with larger loads and fiddling about with loading crystals in the first place.

I suppose we may find that inhaling even tiny amounts of PG is terrible for you but the ease of use and flexibility of a juice tank is so much less hassle than mesh that I would hate to have to go back.

I've tried spice juice before, but in 1.2ohm carts, not in sub-ohm tanks.

The good: ease of use, and the ability to up or down your doses without relying on a scale. And the ability to extend a trip by sipping on the juice.

The bad: I've never had really strong experiences that are easy to achieve with the e-mesh.

I guess a sub-ohm tank would be better than 1.2ohm carts, but I worry about wasting spice (leakage on the tank, or inability to milk the last drops of juice, and so on). I don't really worry about it in practice, but I do worry about it in theory

I want to keep using my e-mesh, I like it, it works, but I want to find the best way to use it.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

Recommended TCR settings for SS316L are in the 88-92 range. Most accurate and fine tunable mods for TC are those with DNA chipset (quite expensive). All in all, TC has never been very reliable on the long run, many parameters can influence the impedance evaluation : cleanliness of the various connection points - from the mod as well as the coil installation -, the calibration of the Ω reference value (usually at 20°C room temperature) and also the mod's chipset.
For your specific problem, maybe try to increase gradually the watts or tweak others parameters, even if they can seem high in value. Better focus on the results than the settings since the resistance value can be skewed and no one really knows exactly how the TC works on a specific mod.
The majority of people who used the e-mesh with TC have now switched to wattage mode due to TC lack of consistency. I'd recommend to use power/watts mode instead, or to switch to d-juice and sub-ohm tank setup - less hassle, more versatility.

 

[Ernestine]

I've tried spice juice before, but in 1.2ohm carts, not in sub-ohm tanks.

The good: ease of use, and the ability to up or down your doses without relying on a scale. And the ability to extend a trip by sipping on the juice.

The bad: I've never had really strong experiences that are easy to achieve with the e-mesh.

I guess a sub-ohm tank would be better than 1.2ohm carts, but I worry about wasting spice (leakage on the tank, or inability to milk the last drops of juice, and so on). I don't really worry about it in practice, but I do worry about it in theory

I want to keep using my e-mesh, I like it, it works, but I want to find the best way to use it.

I agree with your pros and cons. I love being able to dose by fire duration and inhalation managementwhich is possible to a degree with emesh but risky.

I also used to say that nothing can match the blast of potential of emesh... until i got a dual coil tank.

For me the emesh killer was wanting to be able to load multiple hits to use in vapourhuasca sessions and that was leading to those problems with drips and flowing off the mesh. It's not the right tool for that job.

If you only want one hit and can measure your spice accurately for dosing then emesh is great, super clean and efficient.

 

[pantostao]

I've been using power mode for years now. Only my first tests of spice were done with TC mode until I switched it up to power mode since it seemed more reliable. Only recently I've thought about going back to TC, after giving some spice to a friend and realizing that the way he drags from the coil is as important (and variable) as the power itself. I know how to inhale, but my friend doesn't: If he drags too hard, the temperature is lower than needed and vice-versa.

All in all, I know I've been getting good answers to my (kind of made up) problem. But I'm stubborn, and want to find the perfect settings! So any friend of mine can use it without first learning how to correctly drag from it.

On the connections: I made sure everything is clean and well connected as I possibly can. I'm not using a DNA mod, but an Aegis Solo mk1. I know it's not even in the same league, but people used to rave about the TC mode on this one: But it's not as good as its marketing.

On the settings: Yeah, I guess upping them slowly is the right way to proceed. I prefer finding the right TCR value rather than finding the right temperature value for the standard SS TCR value. Is there an obvious problem with this way of thinking?

In my last test (with no spice, though): If I use 30W and TCR175, the mesh quickly glows (very faintly) but it does glow, which probably means it's too hot for a split second. Then, it lowers and stabilizes to a temperature I guess it should be correct.

I'm thinking about keeping the TCR and temperature stable, and lowering the wattage, so it takes a bit longer to ramp up to the correct temperature.

 

[Ernestine]

With some mods you can adjust the power curve which might be helpful. Some have an initial over power ramp up then a lower hold point. I think Arctic fox allowed me to adjust those things.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

after giving some spice to a friend and realizing that the way he drags from the coil is as important (and variable) as the power itself. I know how to inhale, but my friend doesn't: If he drags too hard, the temperature is lower than needed and vice-versa.

Yes, the inhalation tension/pace is as important as power settings, both determine the temperature of the coil. The watts settings I use for sub-ohm d-juice are always on the low side and I use them with strong juices (1g/2ml or 1g/1.5ml). I always calibrate things so that even someone with a slow draw won't scorch the coil/juice. He will just blast-off And in the worst-case scenario, if the person has a too tense draw, the effects will be weaker, but nothing will be damaged. They'll adjust their inhalation at the next puff.

On the settings: Yeah, I guess upping them slowly is the right way to proceed. I prefer finding the right TCR value rather than finding the right temperature value for the standard SS TCR value. Is there an obvious problem with this way of thinking?

I don't think there is a problem with the way of thinking, as long as you get the expected result. The main problem is no one really knows what's up with the mod's algorithm accuracy.

 

[pantostao]

With some mods you can adjust the power curve which might be helpful. Some have an initial over power ramp up then a lower hold point. I think Arctic fox allowed me to adjust those things.

I tried those as well, but I guess the problem is the same as with power mode: Inconsistent toking velocity leads to inconsistent results. Plus, it's way more difficult to set up (because of 5 points to set up instead of only 1). It might worth to give it a second try, though.

Given that you both seem to vouch for sub-ohm vaping, I might give it a try as well. I do have several rebuildable tanks I used for nicotine, but I recently broke the only one that didn't leak at all. The rest of them seem to leak a tiny bit every now and then, and I worry about wasting spice. (all of them are uZeus by geekvape). They only leak if they're unused for a long period, but that would be problematic for me if using it with spice: I don't vape very regularly.

Anyways, I just thought of another test I can do with my e-mesh in order to get the temperature right: pure PG boiling point is 188ºC, which is very close to DMT. I can use a drop of PG, then find the lowest temperature that can cleanly vaporize it, and that should be close enough for spice. Then, I can use a drop of PG/VG 30/70, that should boil at around 220-230ºC. If that one boils, that's too hot. And fine-tune from there.