DoctorMantus
Hyperspace Architect/Doctor
I am sure that someone has looked over the Tek on Erowid what are peoples ideas on that? Useful or not
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Where are we at a grass tek?
- Thread starter Ginkgo
- Start date
It yields a goo of unknown alkaloidal composition (potentially containing gramine and the other substances that people like Fractal Enchantment have hypothesized to be in there due to the subjective effects they experienced). Several members have achieved similar result to this extraction, afaik, using similar routes, but ideally, a "finalized" grass tek should yield clean, crystalline dmt, imo.DoctorMantus said:
What if you separate dmt and gramine by liquifying dmt? You have teks to do that on this forum from mimosa. You can get a dmt liquid at 40-50C, then just scoop it out. Not sure how much gramine would remain inside the dmt liquid. Gramine has a melting point of 138-139C according to wikipedia.
Touche Guevara
Rising Star
-Place goo on metal mesh in a GVGDagger said:
-Place GVG in near-boiling water for a time
-Collect actives from the glass?
^isnt that the point of a sublimator?
The most active grass I had was grass picked in december, just after a light snowfall..the grass was yellow and looked dead. I picked it anyway out of curiousiy and extracted it down to a goo..I smoked it. I got in one hit before I felt a pressure in the pineal gland, then a popping in my pineal gland, my nose began to run and I fell down and experienced what I can only compare to what I have read reguarding 5meoDMT. Grass picked while activly growing in spring and summer did not have this same effect..grass from the summer had mild tryptamine glowy feeling with mild visuals the few times I tried it.
I am guessing the cold temperatures caused whatever alkaloids were present to peak while the grass was dying/dormant..concidering this was arundinacea I would imagine some of it was 5meoDMT.
I am guessing the cold temperatures caused whatever alkaloids were present to peak while the grass was dying/dormant..concidering this was arundinacea I would imagine some of it was 5meoDMT.
Evening Glory said:Yes, that is one part of the rather huge amount of information I am currently compiling. Stay tuned.jbark said:
Consider me tuned. I knew you'd be on the job.:d Looking forward to the info!!
Cheers,
JBArk
Was thinking about The :10 minute TekTouche Guevara said:
This wouldn't probably work.Dagger said:
Gramine will dissolve inside the liquid dmt
:like dissolves like:: ). In a similar manner, you cannot sufficiently separate a mixture of crushed ice mixed with salt by melting the ice because the resulting water will dissolve and carry away a fair amount of salt.Yeah, phalaris arundinacea contains 5-MeO-DMT as well.fractal enchantment said:
It seems that gramine is still the major problem. Apparently there is no easy tek to separate it from the wanted stuff.
As long as we don't have such a tek, i think grasses are a bit of a dead-end street in that they're no good replacement of chacruna or mimosa.
Breeding grass that's high in the right alkaloids isn't very realistic either if you're not willing to spent A LOT of money and time on it and experiment on yourself as well.
I think we have to look in another direction if we want to find a good replacement for mimosa or chacruna. In some areas, acacia's are the most obvious first choice, but in other places, growing you're own chacruna or other plants is probably the best alternative for now.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
Re: removal of gramine.
A basic sublimator can be made using a cheap aspirator pump, a small Buchner filter flask, a rubber bung and test tube filled with ice.
Insert test tube through a suitably sized hole in the rubber bung (careful now!)
Place crude alkaloid mixture in bottom of Buchner flask.
Put bung into top of flask.
Fill test tube with ice.
Attach aspirator pump to cold water tap.
Connect vacuum outlet to sidearm of Buchner flask, using suitable tubing.
Turn on water supply.
Apply gentle heat to flask, no hotter than warm water ~35degC/do the maths for Fahrenheit.
Wait for crystals to form on test tube.
Turn off water supply.
Remove bung to collect crystals from outside of test tube.
A test tube with a sidearm is better than a Buchner flask if you can get one about 5-10mm bigger in diameter than the inner test tube that fits through the bung. Buchner flasks can stand up unaided though.
A basic sublimator can be made using a cheap aspirator pump, a small Buchner filter flask, a rubber bung and test tube filled with ice.
Insert test tube through a suitably sized hole in the rubber bung (careful now!)
Place crude alkaloid mixture in bottom of Buchner flask.
Put bung into top of flask.
Fill test tube with ice.
Attach aspirator pump to cold water tap.
Connect vacuum outlet to sidearm of Buchner flask, using suitable tubing.
Turn on water supply.
Apply gentle heat to flask, no hotter than warm water ~35degC/do the maths for Fahrenheit.
Wait for crystals to form on test tube.
Turn off water supply.
Remove bung to collect crystals from outside of test tube.
A test tube with a sidearm is better than a Buchner flask if you can get one about 5-10mm bigger in diameter than the inner test tube that fits through the bung. Buchner flasks can stand up unaided though.
downwardsfromzero
Boundary condition
It is possible to do a direct extraction from the grass into the human organism by chewing as a quid. It takes a good set of teeth and about an hour of jaw work. Effects are mild and the gramine is something of a problem as it starts to produce a headache shortly after the first subjective effects of tryptamines are felt, at least with the strain of Phalaris arundinacea that was assayed in this instance, in early September.
polytrip said:
Well, it will take some time, but it doesnt have to be expensive, and i dont think one has to test on oneself.
Like benzyme suggested in the other thread DIY Thin Layer Chromatography - Plant Analysis and Substance Testing - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus, post #9:
"... TLC/paper chrom are easy methods of characterizing the different alkaloids. once one gets the hang of this method, column chromatography is the next step...sample preparation... "
In that hread there is also a YouTube movie showing how to make simple TLC's using microsope slides and some simple, safe chems. If it is possible to profile the grasses than perhaps this will open doors (maybe separation tek.) Is the gramine in all the grasses? Is the profile dependent on growing environment and/or time of harvest? Does kitchen TLC/column allow for method of separation?
Bulk growing of grass is easy and cheap and simple, so is profiling (TLC/paper). It is well within reach of DIY kitchen chemistry. Setting up the whole things doesnt really take more time than a good extraction experiment, and the grass will grow by itself.
From abstractSheep foraging behavior in response to interactions among alkaloids, tannins and saponins
Would this work? I know that tannins binds to harmalas and precipitates them. Maybe adding tannins after extracting the grass to precipitate gramine, then pull the actives with limonene.
Seraph
Rising Star
I think Dagger's idea is good, someone should try that. Fractal Enhancement? You seem like someone who is in the position to try this out.
I thought of another idea, solvent solubilities may be a way to seperate gramine from DMT. Naphtha, heptane, acetone and all other kinds of solvents could be used because say the solubility of gramine in acetone might be like 100g/1ml and the solubility of DMT in acetone might be like 1g/1ml.
I thought of another idea, solvent solubilities may be a way to seperate gramine from DMT. Naphtha, heptane, acetone and all other kinds of solvents could be used because say the solubility of gramine in acetone might be like 100g/1ml and the solubility of DMT in acetone might be like 1g/1ml.
this talk about gramine is great but its not really a realistic take on the whole thing..what about hordenine?..or all the other weird alkaloids present in the grass?..it's not just about gramine removal..people take about gramine headaches etc but really how do they even know its gramine and not hordenine or something else?
Il still work with the grass as much as I can until I can somehow isolate the more pleasurable psychedelic tryptamines I have experienced in the grass..but really we need a more in depth discussion here than just gramine removal.
Il still work with the grass as much as I can until I can somehow isolate the more pleasurable psychedelic tryptamines I have experienced in the grass..but really we need a more in depth discussion here than just gramine removal.
Alkaloid information
Neither gramine nor hordenine freebase are soluble in pet ether (= aliphatic naphtha) so doing a simple naphtha/hexane/heptane recrystallization should take care of it (in theory.....)
Neither gramine nor hordenine freebase are soluble in pet ether (= aliphatic naphtha) so doing a simple naphtha/hexane/heptane recrystallization should take care of it (in theory.....)
^ yeah I remember reading that and talking about it last year, but it was sort of unconfirmed speculation I thought at the time... If it really is the case, than thats great! ...and I guess that is that then. I saw some wild arundinacea sprouts just starting yesterday so it's time to harvest and experiment...again.
...and I guess that is that then. I saw some wild arundinacea sprouts just starting yesterday so it's time to harvest and experiment...again.
We also need to remember that alot of the spice found in leafy sources such as grasses is present in it's N-oxide form..which is not very soluble in naptha, if at all..so a fuller spectrum extraction could be carried out first, and then a zinc reduction on that..then naptha pull/rextalizations..