Which PH in which step and why

[DidMyTest]

Hi, I really like these two instructions:

http://www.dmtextraction.org/phalaris1dmtextraction.htm

https://wiki.dmt-nexus.me/w/images/0/09/The_DMT_Handbook_201208.pdf

But I'm not shure which PHs are the best.
In the handbook they start the extraction with PH 4 and end with PH 12. In the other instruction they start with PH 2 and end with PH 9.

I will use Mimosa Hostillis and I'm going to use the tec in the handbook. So:

1) Which PH values give the best yields? Otherwise I will go for lower ones 4 and 9 for safety reasons.

2) If I basify to for example to PH 12 and then do the final extraction with naptha, does the DMT have the same PH like the basified solution?

3)Can I get chemical burns etc. from touching the DMT (when it gets moist again from my hands)? Actually I don't think so, but safe is safe.

Thx

 

[۩]

pH 3 for the acid, pH 12-13 for the base. Just wear gloves and goggles, it's not that big of a deal if done properly.

Freebase DMT isn't attached to a molecule so it has the pH of the molecule, not of the solution extracted from.

No. I've rubbed freebase DMT into my skin transdermally and it absorbed without a chemical burn or anything of that nature.

 

[DidMyTest]

pH 12-13 for the base.

Ok thx, so did I get it right the final solution after I mixed the base and the acid should have between 12-13?

Just to calculate it right if I have 1l of HCL+Water+DMT Solution with PH3 and I want to get it to PH 12-13 with NaOH.

1) HCL + NaOH --> H2O + NaCl
Thus I need 1mol of NaOH to neutralize 1mol of HCL.

PH = -log(mol) because HCl is a strong acid.
And PH = 14- (-log(mol)) because NaOh is a strong base.

* 1l PH3 solution should be 0,001 mol, that means I would need 0,001 mol NaOH to neutralize. So I have to add 1l of water + 0,04g of NaOH (NaOH is 40g/mol) to neutralize.

* But I don't want to neutralize. I want PH 12 thus I need additionally 0,01 mol/l NaOH which is 0,4g per liter. If I mix the two liquids it's 2 liters thus I would need 0,8g NaOH.

In whole I would need 0,084gr of NaOH which seems a little bit less, so where is the calculation error? The guy in the instruction uses 100gr of NaOH. Ok maybe a little reserve is good to add it until the PH testing kit shows the right PH but 99gr extra?

Just wear gloves and goggles, it's not that big of a deal if done properly.

Actually I'm pretty scared of mixing the PH3 Solution with the PH13 NaOH Base. I imagine it could spit like hell or get crazy hot etc. I couldn't get a facemask, just good googles but I will do it super slowly. I think will use the separatory funnel.

 

[Shaolin]

Theoretical calculation differ from experiments. Aim for 12.x (buffer point around 12.7-9). If you get emulsions add moar NaOH.

 

[DidMyTest]

1)Does the Salt (NaCL) completely stay in the aqueous layer? That would also mean I can add as much salt as I want (as long as it dissolves) to get the two layers (naptha + solution) better seperated?

I found this on the nexus:

Exactly. Sort of like:

DMT-Cl + NaOH ---> DMT(freebase) + NaCl + H2O

And the high enough pH will keep dmt from relapsing back to its salt form for reasons having to do with reaction equilibria. But please feel free to disregard this last info if it sounds too complicated.

So it sounds like a higher PH would give a better yield?

 

[Shaolin]

DidMyTest, QT TEK is incorrect, outdated, dangerous and foolish. Link.

The handbook uses that much NaOH because it's function (besides pH raise )is to breakdown the plant material. He doesn't use MHRB.
lle
1) "The attraction between the Na+ and Cl- ions in the solid is so strong that only highly polar solvents like water dissolve NaCl well."
2) There is some speculation about that and honestly plants are pretty complex and we're far from knowing everything about it but this particular question is irrelevant for getting DMT.

By the way, white (distilled) vinegar is good enough, no need for HCl.

 

[DidMyTest]

Ok, thx. Then I will stick only to the handbook. Also the handbook isn't very good at safety issues, but I read a lot of sources about handling chemicals etc. thus I feel confident. I already got all the materials, this time I will start with the HCl but actually I'm way more afraid of the NaOH and mixing the two solutions together.

I think a difficult step could be the filtration. I have really fine MHRB powder and it could be, that it will block my funnel or block the filter paper. That could give a mess and cleaning a PH3 mess could be more difficult then cleaning a normal mess :?

 

[DidMyTest]

The handbook uses that much NaOH because it's function (besides pH raise )is to breakdown the plant material. He doesn't use MHRB.

But doesn't he automatically get a PH around 14 if he adds that much iye and did I understand it correct, that breaking the material further down with iye this is not necessary with MHRB?

 

[Shaolin]

DidMyTest, you need way less lye to get to ph14 and pH14 isn't needed for a successful extraction.

As for filtration, just leave the material (combined water boils) in tall narrow container overnight. In the morning decant carefully.

 

[Newfound_wonder]

So it sounds like a higher PH would give a better yield?

DMT's pKa is 8.68, so when the pH is 10.68, 99% should be in freebase form. At pH=11.68 99.9% is in freebase and 12.68 99.99% is in freebase. Measuring the yield of extractions at pH 11, 12, 13, and 14 would probably be the best way of determining optimal pH for extraction.

 

[Shaolin]

So it sounds like a higher PH would give a better yield?

DMT's pKa is 8.68, so when the pH is 10.68, 99% should be in freebase form. At pH=11.68 99.9% is in freebase and 12.68 99.99% is in freebase. Measuring the yield of extractions at pH 11, 12, 13, and 14 would probably be the best way of determining optimal pH for extraction.

It doesn't work that way sadly. Extracting with naphtha at 10.7 won't give you 99% yield.

 

[Dozuki]

The higher pH helps to eliminate emulsion layers too. Shaolin has good advice.

 

[Newfound_wonder]

It doesn't work that way sadly. Extracting with naphtha at 10.7 won't give you 99% yield.

Assuming the naphtha solvates 90% of the freebase in aqueous solution, then 99.9% would have to be in freebase form to obtain 99% yield (pH11.7). Out of curiosity, what is the yield for extracting at pH~11?