Which psych to use for Post Acute Withdrawals from opiates?

[SpartanII]

Hey Nexus, it's been a while since I've been active on the board, I've been battling a heroin addiction for about a year and have lost interest in life. Before that I was eating/sniffing oxycodone on and off for the past ten years. I went on MMT (Methadone Maintenance Therapy) for a year but it didn't work out for me. Started doing heroin again for a few months but then with the help of kratom, I was finally able to stop the heroin, but now that I've stopped the kratom, I've been experiencing Post Acute Withdrawal Syndrome (P.A.W.S.) and it's bad.

Thankfully, the physical symptoms are almost gone, but I've been hit day after day with severe depression, anxiety, intense opiate cravings, emotional instability, insomnia, anhedonia, and panic attacks. Some days I don't even have the motivation to get out of bed and I just lie there staring at the ceiling or crying. I've lost my zest for life. Nothing makes me happy, nothing interests me.

P.A.W.S. can last anywhere from a few months to two years, depending on the person and the severity of the addiction. Today marks 30 days opiate free for me, but I've been using lots of marijuana to stay sane, and I know I should stop that as well, since it comes with it's own addiction problems for me.

I've been searching the numerous threads for using psychedelics as a tool for depression, but there's just SO MUCH info I felt overwhelmed, plus my condition is a little more severe and complicated than general depression.

I have a variety of tools in my belt to help, such as supplements, a good diet, exercise, and meditation, but currently my symptoms are so crippling that I feel I need a boost, and from what I've read, the main contenders are:

-iboga
-ayahuasca/caapi
-pscilocybin
-salvia
-mescaline

My question is, which one would be most effective for helping specifically with the symptoms of P.A.W.S. that I described above? (I plan on micro-dosing because the symptoms are so drawn out and occur daily, and I don't feel ready for an ego-shattering experience right now.)

Now, although I know that Iboga would seem at first glance to be the most effective considering it's reputation for helping with addiction, but please keep in mind that I'm not planning on doing a flood dose, as I have already made it past the acute withdrawal stage, and I don't know how effective micro-dosing is after this point.

Thanks a lot everyone, I appreciate the help!

 

[polytrip]

I do believe that iboga microdosing can be very effective as well, but it takes time for the effects to kick in that way and i don´t know how long. maybe a few weeks.

Have you considered running?

1-Running (or any kind of physical activity) is a way to release emotions. It is a way to keep you busy when you have these cravings (run in another direction or area than where you know you could fall for temptations) and eventually it builds stamina. When you realy wear yourself out, you´re maybe to tired to go seek for 'kicks'.
2-It is a way to get the endorphine system working again. There actually are many runners who´re addicted to their daily excercise because of the release of endorphines. It helps against depressions as well.
3-You can set yourself goals and see yourself improving every day. That can be a good motivation to get going. Sort of a reward for the hard work you´re doing.

I have taken antidepressants myself, and they realy helped me when my life was a total mess. There are many antidepressants out there and it´s important that you get one that realy works for you. I was given tricyclics, wich are only realy proscribed for realy serious cases, but they´re very effective. It´s also important to realise that all antidepressants take a few weeks to start being effective and often those first few weeks are quite tough. The side effects become less after those first few weeks, but i for instance, didn´t dare to go out on the street for the first few weeks because i was afraid that people would think i was drunk. That´s how disoriented i was because of the medication, but eventually those effects completely vanished. You could realy benefit from it.

DON´T GIVE UP.

 

[olympus mon]

Psilocybin would be a good thing to get some seratonin increases which you need after an opiate addiction. Ive battled opiates before as well and Its a bitch of a thing to get away from but more than possible. Don't think about these PAWS %'. Its BS.

I would think about not smoking so much weed right now. I know they say paws can last for blank amount of months but trust me, its not the case 99% of the time if you do a few thing correctly to help yourself. The people that get past the initial kick but don't do the harder work of getting their ass out of the house, exercise, and eat right find themselves in an lethargic, gray funk for a very long time. usually until they do get off their ass or begin using again.

Stop smoking so much weed. This is going to make it so much harder to get back out and enjoy life! You can re visit weed again when you have pulled yourself out but at this point your making everything harder. Maybe just smoke at night time to chill out and relax.

Dont underestimate the damage opiate addiction does to the body and brain. Your brain chemistry if all F'd up and you need to get the engines running again. Sweating in a sauna and exercise will speed this process up tremendously! Its hard to do right now but it will help. Its gonna suck but stay with it, don't give up. Any natural release of mood stabilizing chemicals will speed this up, laughing, running, being out in nature. Even though you wont feel happy at the moment of action your brain is coming back on line.

Finally micro dosing with Psilocybin can also help. Again you need to get your brain making its own happy chemicals.
Stay away from foods that are known for crashing, sugars, caffein, high carbs. Your brain is going to look for the easy way out at any opportunity. Sugar, and fast food give you a rush of happy chemicals and prolong your own natural release of them.

In the end its up to you. You have been use to changing a mode with putting something in your body now you have to do it the way it was designed. From the inside. It takes a lot of energy to do right now which is a bitch since you dont have any but this is where the true battle field is. No retreat, no surrender keep moving forward!

 

[jamie]

Salvia divinorum has been shown in rat studies to curb cocaine addiction..also it is reported to have some usefulness in kicking an opiate addiction also. I am not sure if the mechanism is understood well or not, but this is something that is not mush talked about within the psychedelic community, probly because many people have negative experiences due to how they choose to use this plant and so loose interest in it real quick. Quids would be ideal for this kind of work I would think. I know that in rat studies they did find that rats with a cocaine addiction would stop self administration of cocaine after being exposed to salvinorin.

I would also start juicing..tons of fresh green juice every day in the morning before breakfast and some in the afternoon as well. You body most likely is crying out for those minerals and vitamines man, and your cells will like all that oxygen.

 

[flickedbic]

Cold-pressed Black Seed (Nigella Sativa) oil.

5-HTP, or 5-hydroxytryptophan, is a natural product, extracted from the seed of the Griffonia simplicifolia plant. 5-HTP is the precursor of serotonin.

Watch alot of funny movies.

 

[polytrip]

Salvia divinorum has been shown in rat studies to curb cocaine addiction..also it is reported to have some usefulness in kicking an opiate addiction also. I am not sure if the mechanism is understood well or not, but this is something that is not mush talked about within the psychedelic community, probly because many people have negative experiences due to how they choose to use this plant and so loose interest in it real quick. Quids would be ideal for this kind of work I would think. I know that in rat studies they did find that rats with a cocaine addiction would stop self administration of cocaine after being exposed to salvinorin.

I would also start juicing..tons of fresh green juice every day in the morning before breakfast and some in the afternoon as well. You body most likely is crying out for those minerals and vitamines man, and your cells will like all that oxygen.

Yes, i heard that salvia is very effective against opiate addiction. But i don´t know if micro-dosing works. It does activate one of the many opiate receptors (the kappa receptor wich is also activated by ibogaine), while it is not addictive itself.

 

[samomi]

Maybe you could also consider kambo on its own or with some other medicine (iboga)
kambo forum

 

[SpartanII]

Have you considered running?

Yes, unfortunately it's going to be winter here so I won't be able to run outside. I'm thinking about starting up a membership at a gym though.

I have taken antidepressants myself, and they realy helped me when my life was a total mess. There are many antidepressants out there and it´s important that you get one that realy works for you. I was given tricyclics, wich are only realy proscribed for realy serious cases, but they´re very effective. It´s also important to realise that all antidepressants take a few weeks to start being effective and often those first few weeks are quite tough. The side effects become less after those first few weeks, but i for instance, didn´t dare to go out on the street for the first few weeks because i was afraid that people would think i was drunk. That´s how disoriented i was because of the medication, but eventually those effects completely vanished. You could realy benefit from it.

Although I know they can help while you are on them, I'd be better off smoking weed. Does the same thing without the side effects. I'm not a fan of prescription antidepressants.:thumb_dow

DON´T GIVE UP.

Thank you, I won't.:thumb_up:

Olympus mon- Yea Psilocybin would be the easiest for me to acquire. All I have to do is grow them.

Don't think about these PAWS %'. Its BS.

PAWS are definitely real but I hear what you're saying about them not being the same for everyone. Makes sense. Sometimes doing so much research can be intimidating.:lol:

No retreat, no surrender keep moving forward!

Thanks for the support!

Jamie- An upvote for Salvia! But considering it's recent legal status, how difficult would it be to order?

I would also start juicing

Buying a juicer has been on my wish list for a while now. If I didn't spend all my money on heroin I would have enough to buy one! I know how good juicing is for the body and mind. Thanks for the input man.

flickedbic- Although I'm really focusing on psychedelics to help the PAWS, I appreciate the advice. I have 5-HTP and black seed oil, but not very much. I'm going to ask my wife if she will buy me some more since she works at a natural foods store and gets good discounts.

samomi- I don't know much about kambo but I'll definitely check it out, thank you for the link.

 

[SHroomtroll]

Not really psychs in the traditional sense but dissios such as ketamine and the newer mxe has been used very succesfully by people against opiate wd.

Although switching one addiction to another is not a good idea i guess they could help with the acue symphtoms very well.

 

[○]

Solid ayahuasca dosage followed up by bettering the diet, and 4-5 days a week/1 hour a day exercise regimen.

I did ayahuasca once a week for about 3 months. The time in between a started eating alot more fruits and vegetables, nuts/seeds, hemp protein powder, solid meals consisting of protein/carbs/fibers. In between doing ayahuasca I'd do light-weight circuits for up to an hour with a minute rest every 5 minutes. I started biking at the local park and around my area.

With that regimen there I beat a 2 year heroin/pill addiction. And let me tell you.....if you stick with something such as this....IT WILL GET A MILLION TIMES BETTER......IT JUST TAKES TIME AND A STEADFAST APPROACH.

It will take many months to get back to the 'you'. Regeneration takes time and a willingness. Just know I'm here for ya man It's a tough and nasty thing to beat.....but once you do....you'll look back and wonder why you ever even did it to begin with.

Much love

 

[Aegle]

SpartanII

I truly wish you the best of luck on your journey, the most constructive advice I can give you is do your best to eat healthy fresh food and maybe try doing some yoga. Focus on serotonin enhancing foods high in omega-3 fatty acids like wild salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, and anchovies.

Also incorporate healthy fats like coconut oil and try to eat a high protein diet. Especially proteins high in tryptophan, like free range turkey. Avoid caffeine as it lowers your serotonin levels rather have a cup of green tea as it contains L-Theanine.

From what I can gather micro dosing pscilocybin would be the most effective in your situation. I'm sorry that you are going through a difficult time at the moment but it will be temporary and wash over you like a wave, soon you will be feeling right as rain.

Just do everything in your power to muster up all your strength and courage as it is never worth living your life in fear and trying to run away from yourself as there is way to much beauty in the world.

I hope this helps to bring a small ray of sunshine into your life, wishing you safe travels.


Much Peace and Respect

 

[corpus callosum]

Not really psychs in the traditional sense but dissios such as ketamine and the newer mxe has been used very succesfully by people against opiate wd.

Although switching one addiction to another is not a good idea i guess they could help with the acue symphtoms very well.

I think PAWS is more protracted an ordeal after the acute withdrawal from methadone and buprenorphine ie the longer acting agents, especially if ones been using these for a long period.As others have mentioned exercise, healthy eating and keeping oneself occupied are the keys here, but it does take some effort.Remember, well-entrenched 'bad' habits and modes of thought will take some time to rectify, so patience is also necessary.

My totally subjective opinion is that the dissociatives especially MXE (due to its particularly impressive after-glow) taken maybe once every 7-10 days at doses not permitted to escalate beyond 25-30mg for a few weeks may be helpful ie strict avoidance of tolerance.As Shroomtroll mentions, this is a route that is not without risk for someone who has already (and very recently) had a significant addiction. Sensible use of dissociatives can be very therapeutic, IMO.

 

[Sky Motion]

I've heard Iboga, sorry I can't help furthur. Best of luck

 

[pau]

Good for you Spartan! 30 days!
I can only imagine the strength it takes to do that.
There are many well analyzed substances here that could help you tremendously, and I wish I were more qualified to chime in with more specific recommendations (most certainly from the entheogen and/or entactogen worlds). But first and foremost, it looks like you're taking the important steps to purify your systems, diet, supplements, exercise, maybe some meditation practice that appeals to you. Another thing you might want to look at - and of course this may be limited by geography - is some work with a shaman, and as a Nexian you absolutely won't need to look far for first class shamanizing for helping you chart a course for the next several month. Bon Voyage!

 

[SpartanII]

Not really psychs in the traditional sense but dissios such as ketamine and the newer mxe has been used very succesfully by people against opiate wd.

Nice! I wasn't aware of that. Thanks.

Solid ayahuasca dosage followed up by bettering the diet, and 4-5 days a week/1 hour a day exercise regimen.

With that regimen there I beat a 2 year heroin/pill addiction. And let me tell you.....if you stick with something such as this....IT WILL GET A MILLION TIMES BETTER......IT JUST TAKES TIME AND A STEADFAST APPROACH.

It will take many months to get back to the 'you'. Regeneration takes time and a willingness. Just know I'm here for ya man It's a tough and nasty thing to beat.....but once you do....you'll look back and wonder why you ever even did it to begin with.

Congratz on kicking the opiates. Yea, I still don't feel like my old "me" but overall I think I'm getting better. Some days are worse than others. Thanks for the encouragement.

SpartanII

I truly wish you the best of luck on your journey, the most constructive advice I can give you is do your best to eat healthy fresh food and maybe try doing some yoga. Focus on serotonin enhancing foods high in omega-3 fatty acids like wild salmon, sardines, herring, mackerel, and anchovies.

Also incorporate healthy fats like coconut oil and try to eat a high protein diet. Especially proteins high in tryptophan, like free range turkey. Avoid caffeine as it lowers your serotonin levels rather have a cup of green tea as it contains L-Theanine.

From what I can gather micro dosing pscilocybin would be the most effective in your situation. I'm sorry that you are going through a difficult time at the moment but it will be temporary and wash over you like a wave, soon you will be feeling right as rain.

Just do everything in your power to muster up all your strength and courage as it is never worth living your life in fear and trying to run away from yourself as there is way to much beauty in the world.

I hope this helps to bring a small ray of sunshine into your life, wishing you safe travels.

That sounds like great advice, thank you. And another vote for mushrooms!8)

You could just stick with the kratom. I take kratom daily, although I've never taken any drugs other than DMT and weed. There's nothing with kratom that will harm you, so if you buy it from the supplier (like bikhuk) for cheap it wont be a money problem. Then maybe after about a year you could just take 1 gram less every week.

I LOVE kratom. It made the accute withdrawals so much better, and gave me a mood lift and energy too. Unfortunately I tend to overindulge and it becomes a crutch for me. I would like to find the strength to use it once in a while if I feel I need a boost that day.

I think PAWS is more protracted an ordeal after the acute withdrawal from methadone and buprenorphine ie the longer acting agents, especially if ones been using these for a long period.As others have mentioned exercise, healthy eating and keeping oneself occupied are the keys here, but it does take some effort.Remember, well-entrenched 'bad' habits and modes of thought will take some time to rectify, so patience is also necessary.

My totally subjective opinion is that the dissociatives especially MXE (due to its particularly impressive after-glow) taken maybe once every 7-10 days at doses not permitted to escalate beyond 25-30mg for a few weeks may be helpful ie strict avoidance of tolerance.As Shroomtroll mentions, this is a route that is not without risk for someone who has already (and very recently) had a significant addiction. Sensible use of dissociatives can be very therapeutic, IMO.

Patience is definitely an asset when dealing with it. I'll look into MXE, it sounds promising. Would DXM work in a similar way?

I've heard Iboga, sorry I can't help furthur. Best of luck

I've also heard good things about Iboga, but mainly for the acute stage of withdrawal. I'm thinking microdosing may help a lot but I'm not too familiar with this. Thanks for the advice.

Good for you Spartan! 30 days!
I can only imagine the strength it takes to do that.
There are many well analyzed substances here that could help you tremendously, and I wish I were more qualified to chime in with more specific recommendations (most certainly from the entheogen and/or entactogen worlds). But first and foremost, it looks like you're taking the important steps to purify your systems, diet, supplements, exercise, maybe some meditation practice that appeals to you. Another thing you might want to look at - and of course this may be limited by geography - is some work with a shaman, and as a Nexian you absolutely won't need to look far for first class shamanizing for helping you chart a course for the next several month. Bon Voyage!

Well, I'm lucky to have a very understanding and patient wife and family support so that helps, but yea it's difficult mentally/emotionally. Thanks for the kind words.

I wish I had the opportunity to work with a shaman. That would be awesome.8)

 

[Ilex]

The thing with kratom, it is really just a substitute for more addictive opiates. Sure, you can use it to prevent acute withdrawal, but it still has an opiate activity of its own, even though it lacks typical withdrawal effects.

I was never into opiates that much, but I found mushrooms very helpful for getting over a minor fascination with smoking opium several years ago. They just helped me realize that I didn't need opium to feel good, I could just feel good all on my own. I'm sure other natural entheogens (cactus, iboga etc) could be similarly helpful.

Also try using Rhodiola rosea, it enhances endogenous opioid activity. Exercise is great too.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Edit - removed
Best of luck to you
Sending good vibes your way

 

[SpartanII]

The thing with kratom, it is really just a substitute for more addictive opiates.

Depending on how you use it, it can indeed be a great substitute for more addictive opiates. :thumb_up:

Firstly: congratulations on getting this far. You've climbed a tremendous mountain. Would that we all had your strength.

Thank you, I'm still heroin-free! My health, family relationships, and marriage have gotten so much better. PAWS are gone and I'm living life again.

I also wouldn't write off kratom so quickly. I know you're leery of substituting one opiate for another, and I applaud your self-awareness, but with self-control and moderation I really do think it could do a lot.

Perhaps you're confusing the post above yours with mine? I didn't and will not write off kratom. It's a wonderful plant healer and helped me get through the withdrawals. I still use it occasionally as a substitute for caffeine for extra motivation and energy.

Alternatively you could give church, or some other structured religious practice a try. Just a thought.

I'm strongly opposed to organized religion for so many reasons, but thanks for the thought.

 

[Ilex]

They weren't on your list, but if you are still experiencing anxiety and insomnia, some gentle herbal nervines like blue lotus, holy basil and chamomile made into a tea before bed could help a lot.