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WHoa...watch out! theobromine OD

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Jorkest

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So SWIM was experimenting tonight with some bufotenine...he took 300mg of theobromine 120mg ginkgo biloba and 55mg of THH..

his experience was lacking..a lot..so he decided to finish the night off with some oral dmt..

well in his stupidity he forgot about taking the theobromine..

so about 2 hours later he took 95mg THH HCL..50mg dmt fumarate..and 40mg harmaline...


he IMMEDIATELY realized what he had done

he started tripping SOOO hard..so fast..he called his brother(who lives close..he could barely figure out how to use a phone) and told him what had happened and asked him if he would please come babysit..SWIM then informed him that everything was going to be ok..but it was nice to have somebody there to ground..

he started inducing vomiting...trying to get everything OUT..chugging water and then puking it out as fast as he could he probably puked a good 30 times...he went for a walk out in the cold..

the puking helped soo much...but he was lucky

he forgot what DMT was or even what drugs were in general..he had to relearn who he was..and even what breathing was...he had to learn why it was dark outside..he didnt realize that there were night and day..he didnt know why it was cold outside...he didnt even know what sex was..he had to learn that he had a girlfriend(who is 300miles away)..he forgot that he had a cat(she is such the amazing guardian..she followed him on the walk and she attacked him as soon as he took the OD..making him realize what he had done)..he couldnt recognize his home...he had to figure out who we was and where he was...he couldnt understand what weed was...he was thinking about friends and family who smoke..he lost EVERYTHING of who he was..

this was by far the most intense experience he has ever had...this was one of those experiences where he thought he might have to go to the hospital and chug charcoal to come down...that was all he could think about..charcoal..but water and puking saved the day...

this was no breakthrough..he was doing everything in his power to stay calm and hold onto himself..he felt like if he hadnt puked that stuff up he would not come out the otherside the same person..this was by far the most scary(but rewarding) experience he has had...

he seriously started tripping IMMEDIATELY..it was like..once he had swallowed the concoction..all the sudden the world turned inside out... this was FAR MORE intense than smoking it!!!!!

he had to relearn who he was and what a body was..why he breathed and why he slept...why he had a wood stove..

as soon as he realized what he had done..he started setting up his area for an intense experience...he cleaned off his bed..and made sure there was plenty of wood in the fire place...

he grabbed a wonderful crystals..its a..oh he cant remember..its a quartz that has a bunch of other stones in it..

anyway..he is so thankful to make it through this experience..it was so intense..

but thanks to quick thinking...and staying calm and grounded he made it through it..

always remember that as long as you stay calm..and relax...and ASK for guidance and protection..from Spirit...you will be ok..



now we know that theobromine DOES potentiate pharmahuasca SOOOOOOO much...be very careful if you choose to experiment with this chemical..the INTENSE part of the experience lasted about 3 hours..hes still tripping now..but nowhere close to where he was before

blessings to All!


edit: he feels that the ginkgo helped him sooooooo much...it helped him stay focused and centered...so yay for ginkgo
 
he also doesnt regret...or wish that it didnt happen...it makes him feel stronger inside knowing that he was able to pull himself through this experience basically alone..his brother couldnt do anything but walk with him(he was only around for about 20 minutes...after that he decided he was going to be ok)

so if anybody wants to get more fucked up than you can imagine...try this combo out...but i dont recommend it to the faint of heart
 
Wow! That sounds intense :)

So, SWIY has established that theobromine is what potentiates the dmt. In the criollo cacao that SWIMs girlfriend use, it may be about 1-2% theobromine, which is about 22-44 mg of theobromine. And you took 300 mg :lol:

The potentiation for her was about 4-6 times.

So, I wonder how much the theobromine can potentiate the experience. This is really something that needs to be investigated, of course, with lower amounts of dmt...

Exciting times! 8)
 
edit: he feels that the ginkgo helped him sooooooo much...it helped him stay focused and centered...so yay for ginkgo
Actually, the theobromine might have a smoothing effect on the brew, so that might also have changed the experience.

Also would like to mention that it may be that theobromine also may powerfully potentiate the MAOI, especially if taking large amounts of theobromine. Same goes for caffeine. Not sure how it works, but have been several reports about it on the ayahuasca forum. One case involved severe hypotension, which can happen with very large doses of caapi.
 
SWIM didnt experience any negative side effects from overdoing the maoi's..he thinks that is because he was able to get it out of his system so fast...

this was an amazing experience!! hes glad that he went through it...but he doubts if he will ever willingly try it again(well he will..but with MUCH lower doses)!!

this was potentiated by like 1000X!! it was so intense...this tops everything he has ever done..

the speed at which the theobromine enabled the dmt to get into the blood stream was amazing...he would say this was like smoking a gram of dmt in one hit...

hes really excited about it though...he thinks that with theobromine..you may only need to take around 5mg of dmt to get a nice visionary experience...and he wonders if it would be possible to use theobromine without the maois...perhaps it gets it into your system so fast..your MAO's dont have time to even think about neutralizing it

he will test this out sometime..you may be able to have a smoked like experience..from eating dmt and theobromine...totally skipping the maoi part...this would be really exciting because sometimes its really hard to get yourself to smoke dmt..and you may be able to allow other people to experience DMT without the smoking part of it..while still getting the smoked effect...not sure if this will work at all...but is worth investigating..
 
Oral DMT can work immediately when it's powerfull enough, whether it's because of dosage or whatever additive.
It can hit you almost like smoked DMT. I had aya experiences where i was tripping before i had time to put the empty cup on the gound or table.
Ussualy this is also an indication that it's gonna last a little longer than it normally does.
I know how cool this is but i can imagine that it can be quite scary as well. For the first few hours you're almost totally immobilized.
On the other hand this is also because of how intimidated you innevatebly will be with the strenght of the effects.
I once was hit so hard by it's effects that i seriously had doubts on whether i still would be able to find and use the toilet in my own house, when i had to take a piss. It felt maybe like climbing mount everest, but i made it. It felt like a total miracle that everything, including myself, was still working properly...
 
yeah SWIM does feel like it was a miracle that everything came back...he feels stronger for it..and is happy it happened
 
So how long is the theobromine active in the system for? You mentioned 2 hours later it still had a powerful effect. And how long would SWIY say his experience lasted? Nevermind, I read that the intense was 3 hours.

SWIM wonders if even 15mg of theobromine taken sublingually (if possible) could potentiate smoked DMT like THH, or even moreso.
 
the real maoi's are harmaline and THH, not theobromine (that's not its pharmacological action). it's a PDE inhibitor.
the theobromine primarily inhibits ATP metabolism. in this respect, its effects are much more mild than caffeine
gingko is a cerebral vasodilator

it would seem that the THH/harmaline is what really sent the experience out there
 
SWIM doesnt feel it was the harmaline so much as the theobromine/THH/dmt combo...he was tripping harder than he ever has instantly quite the come up..it was like he had smoked dmt and not taken it orally...and SWIM has taken those doses of harmaline-thh-dmt many times before with MUCH MUCH less effect..that combo by itself is like a 5-7g mushroom trip...this was like eating 20 grams at least...
 
Let us not forget the pitfalls of reductionist reasoning. Certain drugs (or drug combos) change both brain biochemistry just as they can modify brain responsiveness to other chemicals.

So, certain drugs can modify the way in which the brain responds to other drugs. That is to say that THH+dmt might have primed Jorkest's brain in such a way, that, theobromine could have found a "fertile ground" to manifest itself as dramatic modifier of the experience.
 
Isn't theobromine a vasodialator? Wouldn't it open blood vessels to allow better absorption?

The real test would be to try Theobromine + DMT by itself and see. Then, go back to DMT+Harmine without the theobromine, and see if that is weaker than adding the theo.

I have a feeling that theobromine has it's place.

I'm curious Infund, has SWIY ever tried the theobromine with DMT/Harmine to see first hand? I haven't myself, but I'm not discounting any possibilities here. I most certainly wouldn't go into it with a large dose of theo thinking it won't make very much difference. It might not be psychoactive in itself, but it does something to how the body absorbs them. At least that is what I get from reading. Will try the theobromine before too long. Then I'll be able to test first hand.
 
this is the timeline

T: he took 300mg theobromine plus 120mg ginkgo plus 55mg THH
T+20: smoked 13mg bufotenine with minimal effects
T+40: smoked another 20mg or so of bufotenine with minimal effects
T+2hours: 95mg THH plus 40mg harmaline plus 55mg dmt fumarate
T+2hours 1minute: intense visual hallucinations start and proceed to increase over the next 40 minutes
T+2hours 5minutes: induced vomiting with the finger method;)
T+2hours 35minutes: finally stop puking and feel like SWIM hit a plateau..he hadnt realized he had been puking for half an hour...his brother had to finally be like 'hey dude..i think you got it'
T+2hours 45minutes: laid in bed after a 10 minute walk and proceeded to try and piece everything back together
T+5hours ~30minutes: finally back to reality..still hallucinating but much less..
T+9hours: finally came down enough to think about getting some sleep..this was about 7am..he then got in bed and laid there for two hours and finally fell asleep
 
Nanaki said:
Isn't theobromine a vasodialator? Wouldn't it open blood vessels to allow better absorption?

The real test would be to try Theobromine + DMT by itself and see. Then, go back to DMT+Harmine without the theobromine, and see if that is weaker than adding the theo.

I have a feeling that theobromine has it's place.

I'm curious Infund, has SWIY ever tried the theobromine with DMT/Harmine to see first hand? I haven't myself, but I'm not discounting any possibilities here. I most certainly wouldn't go into it with a large dose of theo thinking it won't make very much difference. It might not be psychoactive in itself, but it does something to how the body absorbs them. At least that is what I get from reading. Will try the theobromine before too long. Then I'll be able to test first hand.
No, SWIM's friend has never tried that.

I also fail to see what the terms vasodilator and vasoconstrictor have to do with the experience or the pharmacokinetics of a given drug. Theobromine as a vasodilator sounds like theobromine as a shoe polish to me.
 
Jorkest said:
T: he took 300mg theobromine plus 120mg ginkgo plus 55mg THH
T+20: smoked 13mg bufotenine with minimal effects
T+40: smoked another 20mg or so of bufotenine with minimal effects
This is interesting. Apparently theobromine does not affect it when smoked, or it does not effect bufotenine. Either that, or you absorption of theobromine into the blood was slow, but it sounds unlikely since it did not work at 40 minutes either.

So, sounds to me like it affected the absorption of dmt into the bloodstream somehow. But then, why was it stronger than when compared to smoking? Thought that had close to 100% bioavailability?
 
benzyme said:
it would seem that the THH/harmaline is what really sent the experience out there
Well, what started this on this forum was SWIMs report of a potentiation of 4-6 times on SWIMs girlfriend. And this was the difference between maoi+dmt and maoi+dmt+2.2gram of cacao. So, it would seem like the potentiation is in fact from the combination of maoi and theobromine.
 
THH has minimal MAOI activity it is primarily a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. It is beleived that this effects keeps DMT in the synapses longer and away from MAO which is inside of the cell on the mitochondria.- THH also likely has some unknown effects which help to enhance the effects of DMT. Theobromine is a vasodilator everywhere except the brain where it is a vasoconstrictor and decreases cerebral blood flow. See the other thread Chocolate + DMT or something like that for sources.
 
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