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WHoa...watch out! theobromine OD

Migrated topic.
I had two ayahuasca experiences this past weekend. Keep that dosage LOW people.

The first was mixed with 200mgs theobromine (for 2 people). I can tell you that it did not decrease the time it took for it to work. I had almost called it a night after three hours passed. After a quick bite and heading off to bed the Aya hit me hard. The experience was VERY jittery and I was wired throughout voyage.

The second Aya brew (1 day after the first) did not have any theobromine in it and had the same amount of White Caapi and Chaliponga per person. There was little difference in the stregnth and duration of the experience. It was powerful but without the jitters. I was able to concentrate on healing this time.

For me, it seems, that the theobromine did little but add a very strong stimulation to the voyage. It made it very hard for me to close my eyes. However, this combination was extremely euphoric. While waiting for the brew to take effect I was feeling wonderful and was able to talk about many deep things with my friend. I may try theobromine in my brew again but at much reduced dosage ie 15-25/person.
El Ka Bong said:
I'm still trying to smoke the roasted- rue-seed ( justdry whole seeds by light roasting in a pan) - this works well ! Pack a bowl with roasted-seeds, huff and puff (it tastes great !), and then in 5 minutes hit the dmt, going as full-out as ever - Whoooshhh ! aaaannnd ... becomeallof God's Love ! ... the trip is > 75 minutes of Beingasms !

At what temperature and for how long are the seeds roasted?

El Ka Bong said:
Dmt smoked 30 minutes after drinking a large dose of Cocoa (3 heaping Tablespoons) for me leads to a longer trip, more recall, and it's just the perfect combo' !

Theobromine, or whatever is in Cocoa that is at play here, has me hooked ! For me it seems to broaden the trip - After drinking a big, hot, sweet mug of it I smoke a full hit (~50 mg dmt sometimes mixed with 100 mg if MJ) and there are usually more Aztec-reds in the opening-veil that announces "here we Go" ... MezoAmerican Myths come alive with the Food of the Gods is IN You - Quezalcoatl opens up all around you ! I'll get over an hour of delight from what might have lasted just 22 minutes, until I was ready to go again !

SWIM has yet to try the theobromine mix. SWIM normally uses kola nut as a source for theobromine because he finds it seems to work far better than cocoa. Maybe there’s something else in the kola nut other than theobromine that improves the effects of psychedelics. For SWIM, 2-3 ml of kola nut extract is enough to increase the visuals and euphoria of nearly all psychedelics. The enhancement is about 1.5X.
acolon..perhaps if you took the theobromine 1 hour before the aya brew..it might increase the speed and intensity..SWIM took the theobromine 2 hours before taking the pharmabrew..so perhaps it needs some time to sink in
The heat is to dry the seeds one last notch, so they smoke. Just gently evaporate the last H2O out in those few grams of embryos - you can tell if they are not changing colour anymore and about to go black ! (2 - 3 min. ?) I set the heat to 'low' or heat until the rue seeds 'pop', and turn darker in colour - they don't smell nasty as they give off a last puff of moisture (I'd guess 10-15% less weight than when starting). They smoke surprisingly smoothly too ...
Jorkest said:
acolon..perhaps if you took the theobromine 1 hour before the aya brew..it might increase the speed and intensity..SWIM took the theobromine 2 hours before taking the pharmabrew..so perhaps it needs some time to sink in

Possibly, still, I'm probably not going to be putting it directly into the brew again. I'm not done experimenting with it though, just never at that kind of dose.
You have succesfully persuaded me to purchase some pure theobromine. I will have to experiment a bit with wich dosage feels right to me, before adding it to a magic brew.
this is AWESOME news!! SWIM has just successfully done his first Marsofold extraction complete with xylene defat and ammonia wash at the end. ended up with beautiful, snow-white crystals that have proven to be a true sacrament!! SMIM has gone on 8 journeys now and broke through at .04 grams....this has been SMIMs dose for the past 3 journeys but he is ready to see what may lie beyond....so far, SWIM has just been smoking it solo with a friend as a sitter. the chocolate and THH additions sound like they might be a perfect next step....SWIM has definitely adopted the RESPECT THE SPICE technique of exploration so anyone with the whole "dude, smoke a ton of it right off the bat" attitude are not feeling SWIMs vibe. any other advice from fellow explorers as to how SWIM might "gradually" explore hyperspace? LOVE AND GRATITUDE!
Today i took ayahuasca with some theobromine added to it. I had a very strange experience in the sense that it was shorter then all my other ayahuasca experiences (over within 4 hours) but it definately had the "WHoa" factor. Initially there was a strange sort of claustrophobic feeling, like:'oh shit, this time i've realy done it, me, simple soul, stuck here inside this little mind'. Some of us are probably familiar with that feeling. But then it turned very beautyfull after i drunk a glass of water. For some reason that calmed me (drinking water).
It took about one hour for it to work but then it hit me hard. Within seconds everything in and around me seemed to exist solely out of a bundle of energetic, spinning wires. The visions i had when i closed my eyes where more bizar then normal, in that they didn't seem to make much sense. I saw a spongebod sort of banana-cartoon, emiting green laserbeams, for instance. And i saw my own organs like i had no skin (with closed eyes).
It amazes me how different ayahuasca is each time.

In my experience, the theobromine makes the whole experience freakier, a little more 5-MeO-'*' like, but less visual or at least less colourfull. But yes, the term 'whoa' is certainly justified in my opinion.
Wow, this is a really interesting thread.

I've got some Theobromo Cacao powder but not the actual active constituent Theobromine. Can anyone offer any advice in translating doseage between the 2? How much Theobromine is typically is Theobrom Cacao?

I definitely plan to try it out next time I take pharmahuasca, just want to get an idea of dosages.

I wouldn't know, i've got my theobromine (99%) from maya-ethnobotanicals. Most people don't like the taste of chocolate while they're on ayahuasca, so i don't know if your idea is worth trying.
Chocolate is the one and only thing that makes SWIM get nausea on pharmahuasca. Is it the theobromine in it causing the nausea?
Well, i know i didn't experience any nausea from this combo. I guess it's not the theobromine that causes the nausea. Not just because of personal experience but also because there are other herbs that contain xanthine's like maté and guayusa that are very ofen used in traditional ayahuasca brews and i never heard anybody complain of nausea from those herbs.
Cocoa contains many substances that could interfere with ayahuasca and that could be responsible for the nausea. Like phenethylamine, choline and tyramine.
It could also be the sugar and fats in chocolade.
I tried 293mg of Theobroma Cacao followed 15 minutes later with 120ml of harmala extract (equating to 2.5g syrian rue seeds) drunk over the next 25 minutes. An hour ten minutes later 60mg of DMT fumarate. I do think the Theobroma Cacao strengthened the effects from what I'd've experienced without it. I only really got closed eye visuals but I guess with 60mg DMT T. Cacao can only do so much. I plan on trying some Theobromine shortly.
From other posts on this subject there didn't seem to be the need to wait much between theobromine & anything else, probably try it in future though.
By the way, I didn't experience any nausea with the T. Cacao.
SWIM will have to give this combo a try again and see what he can figure out..because his normal 50mg dmt and around 150mg harmala alkies..turned into something 5 times stronger..waay more intense than smoking even..perhaps he will try it with 15mg to start off..

he was also using pure theobromine..and a lot of it at that...so he will try perhaps

300mg theobromine - wait 30-60 minutes


10-15mg dmt fumarate
100mg thh
and maybe 30mg harmaline

and see what happens
Whats the deal with the PEA in chocolate? If taken with an MAO-B Inhibitor like Kava Kava, would it not allow some PEA to be absorbed and possibly synergize with the other 'Huasca chemicals?

Just wondering...I LOVE chocolate and it always warms up smoked spice for me personally...
I had kola nut but spilt it before having a chance to use it as an enhancer.



69ron said:
293mg of Theobroma Cacao doesn't sound like enough to have any effect at all.
Not sure, I think it had some little effect. I wouldn't've expected anything much from 60mg DMT otherwise. But yes I'd got 300mg stuck in my head from somewhere as a good dose to start off on, didn't realise it was in relation to theobromine rather than T. Cacao.
Anyone know the proportion of Theobromine in T. Cacao?
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