Why my DMT anxiety is causing flashbacks and making me feel insane

[Emptiness]

I wanted to post this because I felt it might be of some use for others to know how average joes handle there anxiety towards psychedelics and how if left unchecked it can bring about psychological problems.

I did some research and found that a lot of self-awareness anomalies and thought disorders can spring from anxiety alone. I think I am anxious and scared to let go and the whole breakthrough thing has terrified me for years. I want to do it but I don't want to have a flashbacks of a breakthrough in the middle of the night and feel all wack like I am tripping throughout the day which seems to be what I am feeling now but that could be due to my anxiety of the breakthrough as well as other stress-related factors in life like unemployment, finding a home and finding a partner.

I feel it isn't ego death related, as in there is no change in perspective from an ego to an automaton/mind of god like is proposed in this thread.

I am normally a very level-headed person, no history of mental disorders.

I vape dmt only very rarely at very small doses like 5mg until one night I tried a little more but still sub breakthrough. I felt very anxious, like I didn't know what was happening to me and thought my entire perspective might be altered indelibly forever causing me to stay permanently insane.

A couple weeks past and suddenly one night before bed I started feeling like I was coming up on DMT, my heart was beating faster and my awareness was changing. My sense of my own body felt very different and I was scared. I went on to the nexus-chat and a few kind people told me that I should just abstain from dmt for a while, great, I tried to go sleep but my mind was racing and playing all sorts of thoughts like a looney toons comic sped up.

I woke up in the middle of the night with this terrifying change in awareness that kept continuing, it would come in for 5 seconds then settle and come back again and I would try and calm myself and let it fade away. I felt that if I gave in to this thing I would probably end up paralyzed, not knowing what reality is and feeling my senses all mixed up and not distinguishing anything coherent from them. I felt like I was going insane so I ate a quarter an anti-psychotic and a benzo from my medical kit that I keep in the rare case of insanity from psychedelics.

The next day I felt very weird, sort of detached from reality a bit. The anti-psychotic did nothing to help me and just made me feel depressed so I thought that it might not be serotonin-system related but more stemming from an area that is activated in both sleep and the dmt-experience... something like the posterior cingulate cortex or default mode network. It may also be brain stem related because I have over the past few nights experienced excessive wet dreams which is quite out of the ordinary! As some of you know a spinal reflex causes the rhythmic contractions of the smooth muscles within the urethra, penis and the prostate gland, and propels the semen through the urethra out the tip of the penis in spurts.

In the day, I tried inhaling nitrous oxide to see if it would calm me down as it usually suppresses my thought but it sent me in to a very weird headspace that didn't feel like what it usually feels like. It was quite similar to that of doing DMT + n20 together, but a bit different (without visuals).

I was ok throughout the day, albeit a bit weird and felt the anxiety coming on again before bed time. The same type of feeling of impending insanity.

Another night past and I went to bed only to have this weird dream where the cops were about to search me so I ate way too much mushrooms and DMT and asked the girl next to me driving: "why do humans exist?" and she said "your about to find out!". In the dream I started to feel my senses warp and take over my entire reality quickly until I woke up in that same unnerving headspace seeing a mandala of visuals.

The visuals passed but every time I tried to go back to sleep I would feel like I was going to go deep in to that hole of insanity and never return. again and again and I would enter in to that weird state of mind. This was coupled with weird, erratic thoughts that made absolutely no sense and was still playing like a looney toon cartoon sped up. After a few hours of being awake and trying to focus on other things, it settled down and I could start to drift off without that happening again but now I don't feel well rested.

Again, I think that my anxiety over not giving in to the DMT experience may be causing me to feel this way or it may be that I am somewhat traumatized by my DMT-experiences and have yet to unconsciously integrate it and my symptoms are being manifested as a form of post traumatic stress disorder. Or it may be that I have an actual physical, neurological issue and that not giving in to that terrifying sense of impending insanity is actually keeping me alive. The latter may not be true as the symptoms started very abruptly and quite out of no where.

I am just going to abstain altogether from my piss-weak 5mg doses until I feel head-strong. The cause of this is still somewhat a mystery... perhaps it is the devil, a voodoo curse, or even spookey karma! lol

Man, I hope I don't end up in a straight jacket!

I did a bit of research on here and found a few people have a similar thing, not sure it is the same feeling though:

Sleep / half-sleep trip flashbacks
Hyperspace flashbacks
Am I Having Flashbacks?
DMT flashbacks?
HPPD or flashbacks from hallucinogens?
Hyperspace flashbacks
Flashbacks from using DMT?

 

[Sabnock1990]

Perhaps try experimenting around with Rue or Caapi for a couple of weeks or so. Also, there is absolutely nothing to fear about DMT, yes it can be very powerful/intense and at times scary/terrifying, just remember that you will always come back. Thinking you're going to go insane from DMT, or that you'll somehow cause yourself issues from experiencing DMT, will just make things worse... you will always come back down, even if you feel during an experience that you've died and there's no coming back, you will come back.

Think of it like a rollercoaster ride, yes it can be chaotic and intense, but you go on the rollercoaster knowing how intense it could be, and while fear may be there, you've gotta do your best to mentally push through that fear and overcome it, then, you can experience the ride directly without your mind holding you back. That's why they say to let go, or surrender to what you're feeling, don't fight it, fighting it will just make it worse.

From my own experience with Ayahuasca/oral DMT, and Changa, the best way for me to deal with DMT-related anxiety or panic attack, is to breathe, rock back and forth with my hands together between my legs, and my legs might start shaking as well. Music also definitely helps during the come up, at least with oral DMT it does. But smoked pure DMT, i myself haven't even approached a breakthrough dose, but from what i know about it, it's very rapid/short, and very intense. When smoking Changa, that first puff of DMT makes me put the pipe down for a few minutes to ride out that initial wave, and then i continue smoking, but one thing that could help push people past that uncomfortable initial wave, is perhaps a bong using DMT-enhanced leaf or Changa, which would allow for a bigger hit to be taken in, thus getting past the anxiety/fear and pushing us straight out into hyperspace.

 

[concombres]

Take some time away from psychedellics. Try to live a normal life, build good, healthy habbits, & learn how to cope when this starts to happen to you.

It can be difficult at first, but as time passes & you discover how to deal with this within your own mind things should start to get back to normal.

I have dealt with bad anxiety attacks most of my life & as of the last few years I have been working on un-doing some damage done by heavy ketamine use throughout high school & for a short time after.
I have attacks similar to this a few times a week but as of the last year or so I have learned to deal with them much better & they seem to be less intense & occur much less frequently now. Mine I have discovered were delusions - everyone seemed to be mess in with me or being disengenuous, the whole world seemed like the Truman show & i was truman, i was continuously being tricked or lied to - but remembering that this is delusional & all in my head, entirely caused by anxiety attacks, & that the world is not really like this, seems to be a very strong thought & to help groundme rather quickly when I start to feel like this.

If you are like me & psychedellics have already become a part of your life that you cannot see yourself without, maybe take a break for a year or so & get your mind on the right track. You can come back to psychedellics at a later time with something much less powerful & start very low to work yourself back into things & to regain confidence in the experiences & deal with whatever reasons fear crept in in the first place slowly.

 

[Emptiness]

but remembering that this is delusional & all in my head, entirely caused by anxiety attacks, & that the world is not really like this, seems to be a very strong thought & to help groundme rather quickly when I start to feel like this.

My feeling differs slightly to you. I am more like "wtf is a head?" "what does objective reality even mean?" "what is the nature of substance?" "what is really creating my sense of experience?" "what is beyond that?" "what does meaning even mean?"

And I just keep getting more and more freaked out. It seems the idle philosophical questions take on a new significance that is horrifying. It is like a physical existential panic attack.

Your method is good though, I try to just not be aversive to the experience and rather become it and try to find peace with it.

If you are like me & psychedellics have already become a part of your life that you cannot see yourself without, maybe take a break for a year or so & get your mind on the right track. You can come back to psychedellics at a later time with something much less powerful & start very low to work yourself back into things & to regain confidence in the experiences & deal with whatever reasons fear crept in in the first place slowly.

I agree that is a good method. I am just a bit burnt up how I didn't get to really develop a trusting relationship with DMT to explore and improve my life before it hurt me in some way. I dipped my toes in and it bit me. I sorta feel I can't trust DMT anymore, or rather I can't trust myself with DMT (me being my unconscious mind - the one that generates psychosis etc.).

Take some time away from psychedellics. Try to live a normal life, build good, healthy habbits, & learn how to cope when this starts to happen to you.

It can be difficult at first, but as time passes & you discover how to deal with this within your own mind things should start to get back to normal.

Thanks, that is good advice

 

[Emptiness]

but one thing that could help push people past that uncomfortable initial wave, is perhaps a bong using DMT-enhanced leaf or Changa, which would allow for a bigger hit to be taken in, thus getting past the anxiety/fear and pushing us straight out into hyperspace.

Indeed, I wonder if I had just brokenthrough fast the first time around whether or not I would even have any of this anxiety/depersonalization. I agree with you that everyone comes down, but that excludes residual side-effects... so while it does mean I am fully down off of DMT, I can still have night terrors that feel like I am tripping on DMT and seeing visuals. Not sure I want to be breaking through in the middle of the night lol.

I like the roller coaster analogy, still, it doesn't do much in aiding me to trust the roller coasters safety. That usually comes from starting from low doses and working your way up. The prerequisite here for trusting the drug is that you don't have any unwanted side effects like freaking out about your existence and sensations when sober before bed time.

 

[concombres]

The questions you have are indeed a common thing with DMT. I have encountered many of them myself & i have seen many others here speak of the same things. It seems as I you have accidentally stumbled onto a path to enlightenment & philosophical questions & it may be hard to continue living life the way you did before having realized that you, or really we as a collective species, do not have definitive answers to many of these questions yet.

Maybe the answers do not matter so much & it is up to you to determine what your personal beliefs about what reality is, what we are, & why we are here, etc.

Also, have you thought about potentially consulting a psychologist or therapist to help you better understand what is going on & to work through it quicker?
I know it is not an option for everyone but it may potentially offer the answers & healing neccessary to experience DMT again later without such a negative outcome.

 

[DreaMTripper]

The insights after such a strong visionary/psychedelic experience can be so emotive and challenging that if you are in an anxious state can heighten and build on that anxiety, a type of mental exhaustion can occur especially if these thoughts are occuring regularly. I know from personal experience with anxiety that when you are anxious its usually better to be grounded in everyday activity or the crash can really wear you out creating a negative spin on that introspective headspace. Similar to at the end of a very intense acid trip when you are tired but the deep introspection just keeps going and you have had enough of it and just want to turn your brain off.
In short try to ground yourself and remember its ok not to know, none of us do really. Let go of the ideas, you may find yourself visiting them again at a later time with more mental stamina and a different perspective.

 

[Emptiness]

The questions you have are indeed a common thing with DMT. I have encountered many of them myself & i have seen many others here speak of the same things. It seems as I you have accidentally stumbled onto a path to enlightenment & philosophical questions & it may be hard to continue living life the way you did before having realized that you, or really we as a collective species, do not have definitive answers to many of these questions yet.

Maybe the answers do not matter so much & it is up to you to determine what your personal beliefs about what reality is, what we are, & why we are here, etc.

Also, have you thought about potentially consulting a psychologist or therapist to help you better understand what is going on & to work through it quicker?
I know it is not an option for everyone but it may potentially offer the answers & healing neccessary to experience DMT again later without such a negative outcome.

Indeed, the questions of existence that are explored with DMT are similar to that of derealisation but the first has a sense of wonder and awe to it while the latter is more like a man standing at your bead with a chainsaw:

It isn't simply a matter of 'shifting your perspective' as some people on here might like to pronounce, it is simply impossible. The unconscious mind forces you to feel dread and there isn't much an involuntary ego can do but just experience it.

I don't mind that we don't have the answers as that may make this place a little more mysterious and wonderful but to have to feel the unknown and ruminate over it with horror is another thing.

I don't think there is anything a psychologist or therapist can tell me that will truly help me. Frankly, I would prefer to keep my money in my pocket and do a good internet search which I already have and see that DR/DP is quite a common occurrence from mindblowing events, existential crises, life anxiety and that there really isn't much of a cure... unless your a psychiatrist, in which case they will advise to support the multi-billion dollar pharmaceutical franchise that keeps them in business and advertise to you their diverse range of pharmaceutical medications, all 3 of them from benzos to antipsychs to anti-depressants.

 

[Emptiness]

The insights after such a strong visionary/psychedelic experience can be so emotive and challenging that if you are in an anxious state can heighten and build on that anxiety, a type of mental exhaustion can occur especially if these thoughts are occuring regularly. I know from personal experience with anxiety that when you are anxious its usually better to be grounded in everyday activity or the crash can really wear you out creating a negative spin on that introspective headspace. Similar to at the end of a very intense acid trip when you are tired but the deep introspection just keeps going and you have had enough of it and just want to turn your brain off.
In short try to ground yourself and remember its ok not to know, none of us do really. Let go of the ideas, you may find yourself visiting them again at a later time with more mental stamina and a different perspective.

Thanks, I agree it is ok not to know... after all humans are born naturally and die naturally without the DMT experience and have done for thousands of years. I suppose it is a bit sad to not have it though because it has such a great potential to awaken the imagination and bring positivity and wonder to my life, but the priority is mental stability.

It seems it is getting better now but it has come back a few times. I think what will help me and anyone else going through this is to stay objective in the world, do activities that you have done many times in the past and leave existential and introspective analysis alone.

 

[JDSalinger]

It sounds like you are fine but should probably abstain for the time being. Friends and I have experienced similar things before after a trip, yet all positive flash back type events, its called HPPD. Its just an idea but because you had a sub-breakthrough experience which can feel quite anxious that has cast a anxious 'feel' to these flash backs, if you had broken through these symptoms would be fairly pleasant. Again it is just a thought and I am in no way qualified...

 

[Noisy]

Glad to read things are going better for you.

Simple question, but did you tried to do some basic respiratory exercices (abdominal breathing for example) when these derealisation episods appears? Or tried to do so during 15 minutes before to go to bed, as it seems to occur essentialy at this time?
It could help IMHO.

Another question: you said to feel these episods were related to a DMT experience at a sub-breakthrough dosage? I often get anxiety, weired thoughts patterns with light DMT dosage. I think it is related to the ego, struggling to not surrender. This can really be frightening and, perhaps result in paroxystic anxiety episods like those you experienced. Especially if it's hard for you to let go, sleep time could trigger this anxiety (that's why relaxation breathing technics may help). So, the advices to spend some time without doing psychedelics, to anchor in reality, seem to be wise to me.

Peace

 

[downwardsfromzero]

[YOUTUBE]

 

[Emptiness]

Glad to read things are going better for you.

Simple question, but did you tried to do some basic respiratory exercices (abdominal breathing for example) when these derealisation episods appears? Or tried to do so during 15 minutes before to go to bed, as it seems to occur essentialy at this time?
It could help IMHO.

Another question: you said to feel these episods were related to a DMT experience at a sub-breakthrough dosage? I often get anxiety, weired thoughts patterns with light DMT dosage. I think it is related to the ego, struggling to not surrender. This can really be frightening and, perhaps result in paroxystic anxiety episods like those you experienced. Especially if it's hard for you to let go, sleep time could trigger this anxiety (that's why relaxation breathing technics may help). So, the advices to spend some time without doing psychedelics, to anchor in reality, seem to be wise to me.

Peace

Hi bro, yes I did try this deep breathing and it actually made it WORSE. I think there is some problem with my brain stem or midbrain area and when breathing deep changes activity in those areas it also activates some sort of disorder in there too. I think this may be the case also because sleep activates those areas and I experience my symptoms strongest during sleep. Could be something also with the Default Mode Network which is a part of the midbrain which DMT primarily works on aswell as the visual cortex.

 

[Emptiness]

[YOUTUBE]

I love hearing words like this... everytime from everyone it always drifts away because there is no way to intergrate it fully and make changes. You can't teach an old dog new tricks as the saying goes. I agree with the concepts of having no fear, but actually having no fear is another ball game itself, lol.

 

[Noisy]

Ok. I hope this will soon get better.
Also, are you aware of the difference between deep breathing and abdominal breathing? Indeed, deep breathing could be used (if practiced long and fast enough) to induce something very near of a panic attack and, if you continue to breath intensly, could also lead to a psychedelic-like state (like in holotropic breathing). Abdominal breathing doesn't need to be deep, just slow and quiet (approximately 10 breaths per minute, during 15 minutes to get a calming effect). Sometime, it is usefull to add some visualisation exercices, like calm waves arriving on a beach, synchronized with the breaths.
Take care of you.

Peace