Work ethics

[tony]

I am wondering how to come to terms with a few things. Firstly, I do not "work", I have no interest in doing some stupid job to make money for some fat cat... this decision to not have a job is often met with responses (particularly by family members) that feel like "oh... you dont have a job? then you dont have a life.. when are you going to get a job?".

My income is given to me by the government. I live in a house with my rent paid, I get given enough money to feed myself... and to often buy drugs and alcohol. I am aware that my situation is actually very fortunate compared to the rest of the world. I am in no real physical danger, whereas a lot of the world live in constant suffering and the imminent threat of violence.

My question is, how do we reconcile our view of the world (i.e it's all bullshit, stick your jobs up your arse) with the fact that to survive we need resources... and that without us subscribing to these values about working, we need to "sponge" from society.

Is it morally acceptable to live from other peoples resources? Is it ok that my life is funded by other people's tax money? There is a buddhist saying, "one robe, one bowl"... according to certain buddhist principles the most ethicaly sound way to live is by accepting what is given by other people...

Anyway, a bit of a rant. Anyone have any thoughts about this?

 

[Smerrel]

I don't think it's wrong to live like you do in today's society. But only because the system is flawed to begin with. As a principle i would not live from other peoples resources. I want to work and contribute if the system is good.

I wish i had a situation like yours, then i could focus on what i really want. My current work is fun sometimes but I would rather do whatever i want of course.

And i also meet a lot of people that think their whole identity is their profession. Just the way society and governments likes it..

I'd say, keep doing your own thing. And hope for one day finding a society worth working for. Alternatively, work for creating a new sane society.

 

[gibran2]

I think your choice not to work (is it a choice, or is there a medical reason?) is not morally unacceptable – as long as there aren’t too many people who choose a similar route.

However, not every job is a “stupid job to make money for some fat cat”. Even low paying, low skill jobs can give one regular exposure to other people, a sense of purpose – a reason to get up in the morning, a feeling of accomplishment, and a sense of community and belonging.

Helping others is often a great way to help oneself. Have you ever thought about volunteering?

 

[tetra]

You're doing what children who won't grow up have been doing for a long time: you're living in Mommy's Basement. Only your parents are the government. You have a vested interest in the government controlling your life, even though you would probably just say you're taking advantage of the system, and if you didn't, the money would go to someone else and blah blah blah. Welcome to the Entitlement Society.

So you don't want a job. Okay. What do you like to do? Do you have any hobbies, talents, hidden genius? What if the government teat dried up? Would you literally go to mommy's basement?

Relying on the government to live is, frankly, rather sad. And having the government buy your drugs and alcohol? Jesus.

Do you just smoke weed and play video games all day? I do sometimes, but I'm more creative than welfare people and work from home. Not all jobs are crappy corporate gigs, where's your imagination? I haven't had a typical job in eight years, and I rely on the government for nothing, and I pay them nothing in taxes, because I know all too well what toilet those taxes would be flushed in.

 

[tony]

I think your choice not to work (is it a choice, or is there a medical reason?) is not morally unacceptable – as long as there aren’t too many people who choose a similar route.

However, not every job is a “stupid job to make money for some fat cat”. Even low paying, low skill jobs can give one regular exposure to other people, a sense of purpose – a reason to get up in the morning, a feeling of accomplishment, and a sense of community and belonging.

Helping others is often a great way to help oneself. Have you ever thought about volunteering?

The last job that I done was going door to door for a cancer research organization, I loved doing this and woke up every day enthusiastically wantin to work. I enjoyed it, unfortunately I got fired.

So you don't want a job. Okay. What do you like to do? Do you have any hobbies, talents, hidden genius? What if the government teat dried up? Would you literally go to mommy's basement?

Well... I am aware that the governments "teat" could dry up, and I dont think I would go and live in mommy's basement (fuck, my mum doesnt even have a basement)... I have hobbies and desires, but unfortunately none of them can make money for me.

 

[alert]

However, not every job is a “stupid job to make money for some fat cat”. Even low paying, low skill jobs can give one regular exposure to other people, a sense of purpose – a reason to get up in the morning, a feeling of accomplishment, and a sense of community and belonging.

Helping others is often a great way to help oneself. Have you ever thought about volunteering?

I want to reiterate this point. There is much more to having a job than simply a paycheck.

 

[ChaoticMethod]

I think your choice not to work (is it a choice, or is there a medical reason?) is not morally unacceptable – as long as there aren’t too many people who choose a similar route.

However, not every job is a “stupid job to make money for some fat cat”. Even low paying, low skill jobs can give one regular exposure to other people, a sense of purpose – a reason to get up in the morning, a feeling of accomplishment, and a sense of community and belonging.

Helping others is often a great way to help oneself. Have you ever thought about volunteering?

The last job that I done was going door to door for a cancer research organization, I loved doing this and woke up every day enthusiastically wantin to work. I enjoyed it, unfortunately I got fired.

So you don't want a job. Okay. What do you like to do? Do you have any hobbies, talents, hidden genius? What if the government teat dried up? Would you literally go to mommy's basement?

Well... I am aware that the governments "teat" could dry up, and I dont think I would go and live in mommy's basement (fuck, my mum doesnt even have a basement)... I have hobbies and desires, but unfortunately none of them can make money for me.

Your hobbies and desires are not supposed to make money for you. YOU are supposed to make money out of them, out of what interests you. If you don't know how to make money with something related to your interests, then you are either lacking motivation, imagination, or both.

I'm not saying it is necessarly easy, though. It is a life-long quest to be able to survive doing what you love. But you shouldn't be abandonning so fast. It is actually that struggle that makes it an interesting quest (much more interesting and gratifying than being supported by other peoples taxes, in my opinion).

 

[Kensho]

Difficult question. There is a part of me which is not comfortable about living off other people's money, i.e. work.

But then again, we didn't create this system, and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of alternatives out there for people like you and me.

Personally I've opted for trying to change the way we do things from the inside of the system - where I come from politics are reasonably open and there is tolerance, if not acceptance, of having radical and different opinions on how things should be done.

Though who knows, I might one day choose to become self-sufficient and live off the financial grid. I will do what I can, however, to minimise my effect on other people's economies. I feel that their ignorance is what is driving this system but I guess the time they've spent working is as valuable as my own.

 

[joedirt]

My income is given to me by the government. I live in a house with my rent paid, I get given enough money to feed myself... and to often buy drugs and alcohol.

Correction. Your income is given to you by the rest of us that get off our asses and get a job.

Do you honestly think many of us REALLy want to go to our jobs? no. Of course we don't. But you know what? The world is the way it is. You aren't going to change it. You are just going to stack the deck for a long miserable life in poverty...all the while pissing off everyone around you that actually does get up and earn their living every day. Idealism is great right up until it's time to actually survive in this world...which you have to do.

Point blank. Quit free loading off society it's pathetic. If you don't like society then thats fine, but don't stand around taking handouts will at the same time lamenting about the prospect of getting a job.

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

 

[ChaoticMethod]

I'm curious... what is it that you consider to be the problem that stops you from working? I mean... I don't really understand what is your view of the world; what makes you say that "it's all bullshit, stick your jobs up your arse" ?

What makes you incomfortable contributing to society by working?

I mean, every living thing always had to 'work" in order to feed themselves, be it by hunting, by growing food or by having a job. Having a job that isn't directly linked to procuring food is just a consequence of the productivity of our system and how we divide different taks in our society. The difference, now, is that you can chose to grow food OR you can chose to do something else that fits more with your personal interests.

It seems to me that asking the world to feed you without giving anything in return is a bit egoistical.

 

[Bill Cipher]

I guess my response would be that, personally, I can't find a lot to respect here.

You say that your view of the world is that "it's all bullshit", and you've chosen an avatar to represent you which is symbolic of the tearing down of oppressive government systems, but it seems to me that you're quite complicit and dependent upon the status quo. If the world were to suddenly change and somehow be thrown into anarchy, who would pay for your drugs and rent? Who would power your Playstation? It's the "fat cats" and policy makers you so despise who are keeping you clothed and fed.

How about another job similar to your last; one that allows you to be of service and feel good about showing up? Getting fired from one shouldn't preclude you from ever working again. There are plenty of them out there if you're sufficiently motivated to look.

 

[jamie]

To be honest, I dont blame you. I hate working in this society. I have done alot of it..alot of hard labour too that I dont feel I was ever fairly compensated for.

I put alot of time and money into starting a business last year, went though hell with city bylaws, health baords etc wasting my time and money..lost a whole lot of money and basically failed and now have huge debt.

The reality is that people need to work..I just dont agree with how that translates in this society. I dont believe that people should have to work more then 15-20 hours in a week ever to thrive..something is wrong with the current picture. In an advanced technological society we should have more leisure time. "Technology" comes from the word "technique"..and basically all technologies are origionally developed in order to make things easier for us. The problem is that that is used against us often and tehcnolgoies are put in place to make things easier for small groups of people at everyone elses expense. The military industrial complex and their giant waste of money and resources is a prime example of this.

I would rather be working my own land, growing my own food and harvesting wild foods than working for someone else, but I am far from that at this point. I can grow some foods and harvest some wild but I still need money.

My hope is that I can be successful working on the internet selling art and jewelery and some other things I make. Right now I dont make a whole lot doing that at all..I have made some money though so that is at least encouraging. I really did alot of damage to my body over the years doing alot of construction and I dont want to do that at all anymore..and working for 9 bucks an hour washing dishes sounds unappealing..and I went to school for a while and that is just not my thing really. I did well and got good grades for the time I was in college but it is alot of $$ and not worth it for what I would make after all of that.

 

[entheogenadvocate]

My income is given to me by the government. I live in a house with my rent paid, I get given enough money to feed myself... and to often buy drugs and alcohol.

Correction. Your income is given to you by the rest of us that get off our asses and get a job.

Do you honestly think many of us REALLy want to go to our jobs? no. Of course we don't. But you know what? The world is the way it is. You aren't going to change it. You are just going to stack the deck for a long miserable life in poverty...all the while pissing off everyone around you that actually does get up and earn their living every day. Idealism is great right up until it's time to actually survive in this world...which you have to do.

Point blank. Quit free loading off society it's pathetic. If you don't like society then thats fine, but don't stand around taking handouts will at the same time lamenting about the prospect of getting a job.

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

This. Wow.

 

[ewok]

Sucks to work, sucks more tho to work so others can freeload. You say you don't wanna work for the fat cats bit are happy for others to work to pay you.

 

[jamie]

"I do sometimes, but I'm more creative than welfare people and work from home. Not all jobs are crappy corporate gigs, where's your imagination? I haven't had a typical job in eight years"

This. I would feel sort of weird living on peoples tax dollars if not at the very least putting that money towards something good(or you are sick). I dunno how much a person makes living on gov support like this but it might not be much..however you could take that money you just spend on things like alcohol and slowly start some kind of online businss instead. You dont really need alcohol so you are not giving up something vital and in the end you will most likely only get more back or at the very least break even at the start. Working online is nothing in $$ compared to other businesses trust me.

 

[VoidTraveler]

I find it despicable for someone to sit at home and receive free money from the state / society and give nothing in return. You claim to be so against the system but then in return demand that because otherwise you wouldn't survive that said system pays for your survival.

Humanity is a creature that needs to work together in order to survive. As we evolved and developed technology our daily choirs changed from finding food to contributing in another way to the survival of the group as a whole. Specialization *is* the sole reason why you are capable sitting at home and do nothing for your provider but loathe it. Because we are capable of becoming experts of certain fields we managed to invent tools and machines that allowed our lives to become luxurious instead of hoping we'd find enough food to go to sleep with stuffed bellies.

Yes, I am against how the system works at the moment. But the only way to change that system is to actually attempt to actively change it. And you can only do that by being active part of the system. If you believe you should only work 20 hours a week, then find a job that pays sufficient money to support that lifestyle. That's how I have lived for a while. Working three days a week, party the remaining four days. I had a blast, lived like a king, but I provided for my lifestyle.

I would have no problem if someone would receive social welfare if they devoted their life to helping others or making sure the world would be a better place. Things like trying to help homeless people get off the street and the like.

 

[tony]

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

Thanks man, I already feel like shit and now being told I am pathetic and sad just makes me feel much better! You rock!

BTW I'm not wasting any "dollars". I'm not american. There are no dollars here.

 

[ChaoticMethod]

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

Thanks man, I already feel like shit and now being told I am pathetic and sad just makes me feel much better! You rock!

BTW I'm not wasting any "dollars". I'm not american. There are no dollars here.

I agree that he is being a bit rough. Still, I can understand him in a way. It hurts to know you're working your ass off in order to pay for other people's laziness. I don't mind paying taxes to support people who can't work...but to support people who don't want to work? It is a bit frustrating.

Maybe it's time for you to stop "feeling like shit" and start doing something about it?

 

[tony]

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

Thanks man, I already feel like shit and now being told I am pathetic and sad just makes me feel much better! You rock!

BTW I'm not wasting any "dollars". I'm not american. There are no dollars here.

I agree that he may have been a bit rough. But maybe it's time for you to stop "feeling like shit" and start doing something about it?

Honestly I completely agree. I am 24 years old, I have had many jobs (about 10-15), I am not fundamentally opposed to working... I just do not want to waste my life doing some bullshit 40 hours a week just to have less money and be less happy.

About "wasting tax dollars"... the amount of money spent (in any first world country) on "welfare" i absolutely dwarfed by the amount that is spent on the military... why is me sitting on my arse accepting "handouts" so much worse than the people at the top, who use our tax money to fund wars? Is being lazy and apathetic really that big a deal compared to some of the other atrocities commited with the funding of our money?

 

[Bill Cipher]

About "wasting tax dollars"... the amount of money spent (in any first world country) on "welfare" i absolutely dwarfed by the amount that is spent on the military... why is me sitting on my arse accepting "handouts" so much worse than the people at the top, who use our tax money to fund wars? Is being lazy and apathetic really that big a deal compared to some of the other atrocities commited with the funding of our money?

Of course your living off welfare is not really comparable to the atrocities of war. The question is a bit self serving and the answer fairly obvious. But you asked for opinions on whether or not people agreed with your stance - and if you ask a question, you've got to be prepared to hear the answer.

If you don't like the way you're living, I'd say endeavor to make a change. If it's working for you, there's really no need validate it with others' acceptance.