Work ethics

[Vodsel]

Benefits and the dole are a temporary measure, not a permanent fixture. I think if you are capable of work, you should.

Agreed completely.

Every relation is based in interchange. You give something, you get something. We can loathe the current raging capitalism and corporativism, but I don't think we can use it as an excuse for not behaving the way we would, and should, if we were in a balanced, equal society.

Most of us think that it is a great idea to have a welfare system. Most of us believe in helping out, with a small amount of our work/income/taxes, people who need it. That is, people who are ill or disabled and need assistance that they cannot afford, people with families or basic bills to pay that have lost their job or are not able to work temporarily, and so on. The problem is, that system can be abused. And I think there's only one 100% effective way to prevent that from happening: let's just be responsible.

Being responsible or not is solely our decision. When you are grown and able, if you are getting something, you should give something. Doesn't matter if a bunch of greedy bastards are robbing us blind. That's another problem, another war.

If you are not giving anything, and you could, you are basically becoming a parasite. And we need symbiotes, not parasites. I mean, you can be one if you want, but do not expect people who gives to like that.

 

[alert]

You are getting this money for doing absolutely nothing and whilst you are getting it, it means someone is missing out. And they may need it so much more than you. Have you ever considered the possibility of a single mother out there who is desperate for some money who deserves it a lot more than you do?

Benefits and the dole are a temporary measure, not a permanent fixture. I think if you are capable of work, you should.

Sally, I agree with the bulk majority of the points you are making. I do take issue with the idea that some people, particularly single mothers, deserve benefits more than others. Not to long ago I was working full time and going to school full time for my degree. I lost my job due to a round of layoffs. I went to apply for food stamps because I literally did not have money to eat after I had eaten through my savings. I was turned down for food stamps because even though I was laid off I was a student. and students are not eligible for food stamps unless they have a minor child. Why is it that I am somehow less of a priority to be helped simply because I went out of my way to make sure I never had a child when my financial situation would not allow it? I have paid taxes my entire adult life and I have never been the recipient of any sort of government benefits so I was enraged when I was deemed not a priority simply because I did not have a child.

 

[Sally]

I was turned down for food stamps because even though I was laid off I was a student. and students are not eligible for food stamps unless they have a minor child. Why is it that I am somehow less of a priority to be helped simply because I went out of my way to make sure I never had a child when my financial situation would not allow it?

Are you in the UK? The only reason I ask is because UK students get maintenance loans and are therefore not eligible for extra help. My boyfriend once applied for benefits and since I was living him, they required to know what my status was. I was a self-funded postgraduate student and even though the application was nothing to do with me, they just saw that I was listed as 'student' and put us to the bottom of the pile assuming I received a maintenance loan. It was a nightmare to get the point across.

I guess the reason why students with a child are allowed food stamps is that a maintenance loan is enough to support one person, however a single mother or father would require food, housing and childcare and are, therefore, eligible for more benefits due to more outgoings.

If you are not giving anything, and you could, you are basically becoming a parasite. And we need symbiotes, not parasites. I mean, you can be one if you want, but do not expect people who gives to like that.

I totally agree with this. I do wonder though, I work and pay money to the country so that I can help people to get by e.g. people claiming benefits etc. I contribute what I can to help those in need. I would hope that people claiming benefits would contribute what they could, for example, their time, in order to help those less fortunate than themselves. I think charity work should become compulsory for those on benefits. Its good for the soul and it looks good on a CV!

Much love,
Sally xx

 

[Bill Cipher]

I present to you the patron saint of lazy welfare recipients:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/27/10890647-man-cuts-off-foot-throws-it-in-furnace-to-avoid-job-assignment

 

[Korey]

I have no desire to work in society today, and I doubt I ever will. I have enough income that is NOT generated by the government to support myself and my needs. I live off my property, and take advantage of my interests to produce money. I feel I am much happier this way, and I can afford the few things extra like internet and car insurance with no problem.

I find it ironic that you despise the system so much, yet you allow yourself to take advantage of it. My decision to live away from society and to not take part in silly money spending patterns that are detrimental to my well being also inspired me to never take a hand out from the system I so entirely loathed. I'd feel like a hypocrite if I allowed myself to do so.

 

[tetra]

I have no desire to work in society today, and I doubt I ever will. I have enough income that is NOT generated by the government to support myself and my needs. I live off my property, and take advantage of my interests to produce money. I feel I am much happier this way, and I can afford the few things extra like internet and car insurance with no problem.

I find it ironic that you despise the system so much, yet you allow yourself to take advantage of it. My decision to live away from society and to not take part in silly money spending patterns that are detrimental to my well being also inspired me to never take a hand out from the system I so entirely loathed. I'd feel like a hypocrite if I allowed myself to do so.

Right on, right on, that's the way to roll. I'm stuck in the city now, but one day . . . one day . . .

 

[tony]

I have no desire to work in society today, and I doubt I ever will. I have enough income that is NOT generated by the government to support myself and my needs. I live off my property, and take advantage of my interests to produce money. I feel I am much happier this way, and I can afford the few things extra like internet and car insurance with no problem.

I find it ironic that you despise the system so much, yet you allow yourself to take advantage of it. My decision to live away from society and to not take part in silly money spending patterns that are detrimental to my well being also inspired me to never take a hand out from the system I so entirely loathed. I'd feel like a hypocrite if I allowed myself to do so.

I do see the irony/hypocrisy in it. I just feel kinda stuck. I could probably have been legitimately receiving sickness benefits through my later teens and early twenties but refused to go that route since I didn't want the extra money and didn't want the stigma. But bearing in mind that I am covered in scars from self harm, some six inches long and cut right into the bone, coupled with a serious attempt at suicide when I was about 19/20 which resulted in being sectioned for a short time, I think it is safe to say I could have been getting double the benefits that I get and would not have had to pretend to look for work. So I am not milking the system as much as I could have, I take the minimum amount that I can, the next step down from where I am would be homeless and begging. The next step up will be getting myself back into a job that I enjoy.

I think you sound like you have a fairly close to ideal situation, I would love to be able to live like that. However I live in a pretty densely populated area, which has large problems with alcoholism, heroin abuse and violence. I don't have a piece of land to live off, and to get a piece would require saving up more money than is really possible without getting some very overpaid job or willing the lottery or something. I am curious, the piece of land you live off... how did you get this land? Did you work hard, save up and buy it or was it given to you or inherited from family or something? If you worked your ass off, saved up and bought it then that's amazing and well done, but if it was somehow handed down to you or you just happened to acquire without much effort then I don't think you can really criticize me for not being as fortunate.

 

[ewok]

I present to you the patron saint of lazy welfare recipients:

http://worldnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/27/10890647-man-cuts-off-foot-throws-it-in-furnace-to-avoid-job-assignment

Thats some serious dedication right there.

 

[buddhistseeker]

My income is given to me by the government. I live in a house with my rent paid, I get given enough money to feed myself... and to often buy drugs and alcohol.

Correction. Your income is given to you by the rest of us that get off our asses and get a job.

Do you honestly think many of us REALLy want to go to our jobs? no. Of course we don't. But you know what? The world is the way it is. You aren't going to change it. You are just going to stack the deck for a long miserable life in poverty...all the while pissing off everyone around you that actually does get up and earn their living every day. Idealism is great right up until it's time to actually survive in this world...which you have to do.

Point blank. Quit free loading off society it's pathetic. If you don't like society then thats fine, but don't stand around taking handouts will at the same time lamenting about the prospect of getting a job.

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

I agree with you completely JoeDirt. Absolute blatant truth. I like working myself, I make music, am producive, and still have a lot of free time. Boozing it up refers to getting waisted, and you being from Europe should understand that drinking is supposed to be a compliment thin whether it's to a meal or socializing. IF you don't think what you're doing is a bid deal, you are dead wrong. I don't pity your emotional downfalls as we all have them. It is unfortunate that you didn't have the will power back then and you obviously don't have will power or backbone now. Good luck to you, anyone such as I who works 40 hours a week will understand. Life isn't free. You don't have to work, be self-sustainable, but overall be atleast a little bit productive.

You sir, honestly, are a egocentric jerk who doesn't care about anyone else. Because your actions right now only benefit you, and you alone.

 

[tony]

You sir, honestly, are a egocentric jerk who doesn't care about anyone else. Because your actions right now only benefit you, and you alone.

Thank you so much

BTW you've named yourself buddhistseeker. Perhaps you should actually seek out some buddhism, since what you have said is about the least helpful or compassionate thing you could say to someone who says they suffered some serious difficulties. I know a lot of buddhists, none of them are so quick to resort to judgement and name calling. You are probably largely correct in your assessment of me though.

 

[buddhistseeker]

You sir, honestly, are a egocentric jerk who doesn't care about anyone else. Because your actions right now only benefit you, and you alone.

Thank you so much

BTW you've named yourself buddhistseeker. Perhaps you should actually seek out some buddhism, since what you have said is about the least helpful or compassionate thing you could say to someone who says they suffered some serious difficulties. I know a lot of buddhists, none of them are so quick to resort to judgement and name calling. You are probably largely correct in your assessment of me though.

The jerk part on my behalf was not needed. I am not a devout Buddhist, but I embrace it's core ideals and concepts. You have made it very clear that you do not express loving kindness to others. You do not show growth in your being as a whole. You do not accept and cope with out drugs to the realities of pain and suffering. You do not understand the choices you make nor recognize the consequences. I show no pity on someone who accepts pitfall and resorts to "boozing and drug use" sponsored by the government. It seems your character is very weak and brittle and you should consult a mental institution, because you obviously can not cope with life and need help making basic human decisions.

 

[tony]

The jerk part on my behalf was not needed. I am not a devout Buddhist, but I embrace it's core ideals and concepts. You have made it very clear that you do not express loving kindness to others. You do not show growth in your being as a whole. You do not accept and cope with out drugs to the realities of pain and suffering. You do not understand the choices you make nor recognize the consequences. I show no pity on someone who accepts pitfall and resorts to "boozing and drug use" sponsored by the government. It seems your character is very weak and brittle and you should consult a mental institution, because you obviously can not cope with life and need help making basic human decisions.

I think this thread may have run it's course and I have found it useful, I've had responses ranging from "I understand your position" right through to basically I am the scum of the earth and ought to be ashamed. I appreciate all the responses.

Anyway, one last thing... buddhist seeker, when I previously quoted you, the "jerk" part was the part I was least... I dunno.. hurt by. I may well be a jerk, I may even be egocentric to an extent. I think if you understand what egocentrism is then you could probably, on reflection, see that the things you are saying to are highly likely an act of egocentrism on your part. So people in glass houses eh?

What bothered me was the part about me not caring about others. I don't know what you are basing that on. I have re-read every post I made in this thread and none of it shows that I lack compassion. I am considered by pretty much everyone who knows me to be basically a nice guy and very capable of showing compassion and understanding. Could you please explain to me where you get off telling me that I don't care about anyone?

You say I do not show growth in my being as a whole... and you are basing this on only having been aware of my existence for 3 days. You have no idea how much (or how little) growth I have went through.

You say my character is very weak and brittle and that I should go to a mental institution... do mental institutions build character?

I think people may have misinterpreted my attitude to drink and drugs. I do perhaps drink more than I should, but I often go weeks without drinking. Same applies to drugs. I am neither an alcoholic nor a drug addict and in the grand scheme of things very little of my resources are spent on intoxicants.

I have had many jobs and plan on getting another one. I am not lazy, I am happy to do hard work for free for friends of family... it's the monotonous robot jobs (which seem like the only ones available) that are my problem. buddhistseeker, you may not have read my post where I explained my last job was as a fundraiser for a cancer research organization. This job was the hardest work I have ever done, walking upwards of 7 miles every day (at least 5 days a week, occasionally 7 and on one occasion I done 12 days straight) often in the horrible scottish weather... it paid less than any of my other jobs, and I loved it and would gladly do it again for even as little money as I currently get for not working. If I could find another job like this I would take it in a heartbeat.

Anyway, I'm done trying to justify myself in this thread. Like I say, I wanted some opinions and I got them

 

[corpus callosum]

Some pretty judgemental stuff being uttered here buddhistseeker.Please refrain from this; its not in any way constructive.

 

[tetra]

You have made it very clear that you do not express loving kindness to others. You do not show growth in your being as a whole. You do not accept and cope with out drugs to the realities of pain and suffering. You do not understand the choices you make nor recognize the consequences. . . It seems your character is very weak and brittle and you should consult a mental institution, because you obviously can not cope with life and need help making basic human decisions.

That's a whole lot of conclusive judgements for someone you've never met. You can agree or disagree with Mr. Tony living on government handouts, but just giving flat out, period-end-of-sentence judgements on who (or whom? I get those mixed up) Tony is as a person is not productive.

 

[anrchy]

I notice two things. A lot of people started making assumptions on tony's lifestyle, and tony didn't really explain enough of his lifestyle for the question being asked. It seemed to me a multifaceted situation with many factors. Tony, as you continued to post you slowly leaked out more information that was necessary for a complete reply.

take it this way. If you were posting about a computer problem, you would want to post all the specs of your computer. At first you didnt state where you lived, so many assumed the US and got upset because that is a common problem here, people living on welfare that don't deserve any of it. i'm not saying non of them do, but MOST. And you added that you bought drugs and alcohol with your free money, that was not needed and just clouded the idea of your post. Causing most to again assume, that you were drug addicted and an alcoholic. Which should not come to any surprise due to the fact that is an extremely common problem ALL OVER THE WORLD.

You also took a few pages to explain your past which is very valuable in letting people know your intentions, so they had to assume your intentions based on your poor explanation of who you are. you also didn't explain any of your goals, or values, or outlooks on life. So again this is what you basically said.

"I live on welfare, I buy drugs and alcohol, don't want to work ever, what do you think about this?"

When what you should have said is this:

"Hi my name is tony, I have a medical condition which I could have been seeking disability for this whole time but have not for my own reasons. I have had several jobs, none of which made much money as there isnt much here. I dont really want to work for some corporation, that idea doesn't appeal to me. I like to help people and my family, I do this without need of anything in return. I once worked for shit pay where I had to walk several miles a day for cancer research. I loved that job, but was fired. my friends and family hold me in high regard. please give me your opinion on my situation. Thank You"

Do you see what i mean? Which one would you think would receive the best response?

 

[anrchy]

Also I am a little confused on this. You said:

Is it morally acceptable to live from other peoples resources? Is it ok that my life is funded by other people's tax money?

And joedirt said:

BTW It's just awesome that you are wasting our tax dollars drugging and boozing it up. Seriously pathetic...and sad.

Then you said:

BTW I'm not wasting any "dollars". I'm not american. There are no dollars here.

How is it important that he said "dollars" rather then you currency? Isn't the point that he is replying to the fact that you are wasting money, admitted to wasting money, yet you focused on the fact that what currency he stated was incorrect, even though you never stated where you live? ALSO, I believe that "dollars" should just be taken as the same as saying money. just for the record.

You should have said:

You say dollars, which makes me assume you think I live in the us. I do not, i live in Scotland so I'm wasting tax pounds.

 

[Bill Cipher]

How about everyone just chills out a bit? This thread has run its course.

*Shuttin' it down...*