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Your Thoughts about Hyperspace Entities

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"Christianity, I feel, offers the soul an opportunity to experience God objectively in an eternal sense, not just as a temporary node of consciousness. Through Jesus, one is drawn into a relationship with the Father."

But to me that is NOT GOD then..it's a fantacy..god is not external to me and never could be..you are objectifying one single thing out there as god..yet if god is everything than how is jesus going to bring you cany closer to god than my dog could?


...It's just that jesus isn't real...or if he is..where is he? I think he was just a man and now he is dead..end of story.

I went to church when i was a kid for a while, and at times as a teenager..and I still dont understand what the hell they were really talking about..honestly everyone I have met that went to those churches seemed brainwashed..they're answer to everything was Jesus..but they really didn't knwo why..all they could do in response was repeat old bible stories..that probabily aren't even true since the Bible has been rewriten so many times..there was no gnosis at all..

Where the hell is Jesus?..did her even exist?...did he really WANT people to follow him to the end like that?..putting all faith in him?

If we are all part of god how do we get any closer by going through jesus than by going through satan?..or buddha or some plant or my postman?..or anything else in creation for that matter?..

Where the hell was Jesus when all my ancestors were being prosecuted and killed for being pagan?..oh yeah he was dead..

WHat I honestly think about most christians is that they are afraid and in denial. They need things that are OUT THERE, apart from them to worship to make them feel secure. They call on the name of Jesus when they need help or dont like what they see, and repeat old outdated things that make no sense from the Bible when they dont agree with something..they objectify they're own spirituality..putting power and importance in unimportant objects..thinking the Bible wont burn and such..

Thats an eay way out..how nie it would be if we all chose to look elsewhere for whats real, place blame on everyone else..externalise everything...we would never have to look at ourselves and be discusted, never have to look within to find the flaws..becasue of course..everything bad is satan and everything good is jesus...

it's just soo... .. 2 dimensional..so flat and doesnt go beyond dualism..

Not that all chrisitanity is like that..but I acutally believe that chrisitanty was a sun worshipping cult and it was more trancendental than most "christians" these days would like it to be..

i think Jesus was a man, he worshipped the sun and ate magic mushrooms and smoked herb..preached peace and they killed him for it...
 
"We need to be careful. I've lost two girlfriends because I didn't know how to properly handle my philosophy degree."

:d I know what you mean...I studied philosophy and religous anthropology for a bit and people can get really angry about what you have to say!...words can be very confusing for one thing..we all interprete things a bit differently..

..at times though I get tired of being careful:d..you can't avoid stepping on every single persons toes..well you can, but you might have to sit in silence..
 
This idea of a Father I have never understood, neither about Jesus giving you a personal relationship with God. Why would you need some kind of medium? My opinion is that religion should be something between the individual and God, without any need for preachers, Jesus, Moses or any of these things. But religion does pretty much the opposite now doesn't it?

I blame religion for being one of the main reasons for tricking humans away from the true Divine presence that we all feel through everything we experience, feel and that which we are. I think we should draw our noses away from old books written a long time ago by seemingly "holy men", passed on to other "holy men", re-written, misused, misinterprated and re-written again and instead start realizing that we are all sacred, that everything is sacred, and start living up to that. That we are all part of the same whole that is everything, and that everything is God or that God is everything (or WHATEVER you wish to call it). And so to this you yourself, as a part of the whole that is everything, are also God. YOU are also doing this, along with everyone and everything else. How everything is connected and organized together like an organism pumping itself into existence all the time. I need not do anything else than be conscious to directly experience God...

Of course, explaining this kind of perspective is impossible. It needs to come to you through personal experience (like mystical experiences for example) and lots of thought experimenting. So for me God is something one understands or do not understand. That this is my personal thoughts and not some attempt to preach should be pretty obvious, but I might as well mention it =)
 
wow folks ..this is awesome wee are really getting to the root of things here:citta

I blame religion for being one of the main reasons for tricking humans away from the true Divine presence that we all feel through everything we experience, feel and that which we are. I think we should draw our noses away from old books written a long time ago by seemingly "holy men", passed on to other "holy men", re-written, misused, misinterprated and re-written again and instead start realizing that we are all sacred, that everything is sacred, and start living up to that.
ohh yes indeed!!!!

original face: I am sorry Morphane but, while everyone else's opinion in this matter seems to be expressed from personal experience and reflective thinking, yours appears to be filled with fairy tales. For example: agreed



fractalenhancement: I can see where you are from your words and thank you for having the guts to move beyond faith and witness something transendental yourself..and my ancestors as well!! ohh that is the root of it for sure..I remember how peacful and magical certian communities were until the wave of atrocity and cultural genocide emenating from "the son of god" raped/tortured it all away. I too see that there is no seperation, I also seer that the perception of that seperation is the cause of that attrocity..in a very weird way. what is comes down to is that...jesus..or his folowers or both destroyed magic with rape and torture..and its still happening...all part of gods will eh' MORPHANE??

THANK YOU TO ALL HERE WHO HAVE CHOSEN TO LOOK BEYOND WHAT THEY WERE TOLD WAS REAL!!!!!!!!!!!!
MY LOVE GOES OUT TO YOU!!!!
I see a possible future where what we are doing now will make a huge difference in what CAN happen, I see the pposibility of coadunate mind

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and for breif glorious moments I have seen the posibilities of what that would be like..no possibility of killing or torture or rape or child molestation..because to do that to "someone else" would be literally doing it to yourself!! and WE WILL DO IT!!!!! WE MUST!! DIVINE INTERVENTION WOULD BE IRESPONSIBLE BEHAVIOUR ON "GODS" PART!!! we are children and need to learn from our own mistakes. I also see that that coadunation dosn't stop on earth, I see the possibility of uniting all the minds in the galaxy, then all the minds in ther universe in a very intimate way....most humans these days would think that you would completly lose yourself in that but I think its more like a explosive manifestation of the true power of our spirits!
I see that ultimatly all the minds united become more than all thier parts..more than any of thier individual stories of god ever were. a mind in every atom conciously, and in all dimentios always.
 
Morphane said:
Citta said:
Morphane:

I must ask you something else: What do you consider God to be? Or maybe I should ask different; Are you and God separate? And why Christianity? I think it is interesting speaking to you, as I do have great interest in religion as well as the psychology of it. So I mean no harm in my questions, and I hope that you don't feel misplaced. If so then please tell me, and we shall lay this discussion dead =)

And I must mention that reading about mystical experiences is one thing, but having one is a whole other game. To try to understand these experiences without having them yourself is like trying to understand what love is when you've never felt it. You can read all you want, but it doesn't even come close to the real thing. I think that if you really had a full blown mystical experience your beliefs would've been greatly challenged
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I don't know what God is. The I Am, the Divine Ground of Being, the Way. Supreme Intelligence. Love personified. As Rick Strassman put it: "unchanging, unborn, undying, and uncreated reality". Absolute consciousness.

We are all unfolded from God, so physically there is no separation from Him. We move inside Him like fish through water. Our perception is separate however - those of us without mystical experience anyway. I think this virtual reality we inhabit allows an illusion of separation, which we can do with as we please.

Christianity, I feel, offers the soul an opportunity to experience God objectively in an eternal sense, not just as a temporary node of consciousness. Through Jesus, one is drawn into a relationship with the Father. Otherwise the soul gets purified and recycled. Whether this means final reintegration back into God consciousness, endless opportunities through reincarnation, or some form of terrible destruction - I don't know.

I think the purpose of creation is to bring separate beings into a loving relationship with God and other beings.
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Dear Morphane
Probably I would have used others words to describe God, but I do think we are all talking about the same here. In my opinion it really does not matter what religion or philosophy or medicin you practice so to experience God. Why Christianity? Because of who you are probably. Because it fits you.
If you were born elsewhere, for example, it could have been different. This is why I do not pratice some religion, because there is no way of knowing the full truth (about God). And it is so easy to just believe this or that story and take it for the ultimate truth. I think it to be unwise to do so. You have to admit, we can not comprehend. And to just believe some story? Which one should I believe? The experts on religion wont agree about this one. You, me, we will? This is why I have choosen psychedelics instead of praticing religion. Expansion of mind seems to me the closest I can get to experiencing spirituality. Psychedelics are A way (the highway : P). From a wise man like you I wont be expecting any bullshit about 'no true spirituality through drugs' etc so I wont go into that one.

Perhaps try working with the shrooms. They will show you (about you), not shock you.
Just a suggestion to (an) open mind.

Religion has evolved
Peace dude
 
"Probably I would have used others words to describe God, but I do think we are all talking about the same here"

"If you were born elsewhere, for example, it could have been different."..


I actaully dont think we are all talking about the same thing here..I know I am not talking about the same thing as God-through-Jesus...I am not talking about a god which you can objectify like that..Jesus was not god..

The bible states that God created EVERYTHING..so why should jesus be the best way to find god..which is what Morphane suggested..that is not what I am talking about at all. We are talking about completely differnt things here.

To me god is everything and nothing..the word "god" is irrelevant becasue it's jsut a wrod..just a Jesus was just a man. For me there is no way to define what god is to me..the whole idea of "my description of god" is a complete cop-out..doesnt do it justice because words are too wishy washy..here and there..

The thing that might come the closest is mataphor..not A metaphore..but the art of metaphore itself..

My "god" can not be a god whose best route to is through Jesus..that makes no sense and does a huge injustice to what it really even is..there is no "best" way..that would be too arrogant.

It doesn not matter where one is born in the end...the trancendental experience of personal revelation is cross-cultural...and no ammount of regional religous beliefs will ever change that..once you see it, you just see it..and until you see that..I doubt we would be talking about the same thing.
 
"My "god" can not be a god whose best route to is through Jesus..that makes no sense and does a huge injustice to what it really even is..there is no "best" way..that would be too arrogant.

It doesn not matter where one is born in the end...the trancendental experience of personal revelation is cross-cultural...and no ammount of regional religous beliefs will ever change that..once you see it, you just see it..and until you see that..I doubt we would be talking about the same thing."


amen to that,
being raised in the christian faith and believing as morphane does for the beter part of my life i can understand where he comes from...... but as far as his faith not being changed if he werwe to take spice or ayahuasca is quite doubtfull indeed.
SWIM'S third experience with aya was using one ounce of phalaris 'turkey red' red strain SWIM was slain by it fully, spent an hour in fetal position with the truth of what was a sick yet all to accepted token of religious experience through christianity.. it was far to profound/clear to not be changed by.
MORPHANE : I don't see that anyone here is trying to change what you believe, I imagine most have empathy for your position and would wish to help you free yourself from such limiting ideas..myself included..don't just read about entheogens mon!! say your prayers and comit yourself to the power that god has left here for us to see god, onewithas...not separate and needing to be coddled/worshiped by its own creations.
 
I really agree with fractal enchantment, and I have no doubt me and him are talking about the same things here. Morphane however seem to be stuck in faith based on what somebody else told him were true and real.

The quest must be to cut through all of these reality filters that we have constructed around ourselves through all the years of socializing, and for ourselves to have a direct experience and assurance of something Divine. Once you get this experience, if that is through meditation, fasting, ingesting psychedelics (it doesn't matter) you will wake up to understand that the conventional religions bear inconsistencies in their own generic conception and lure us away from the miracle that is constantly unfolding itself within and without, in you and in me and everywhere else. Now this is a lot more miraculous than anything you can choose to believe isn't it? And I do think that this is where religion popped out from in the first place, but that shit has gotten crazy and totally messed up through the times of power seeking sick bastards, misunderstanding, misinterpration and so on.
 
I'm not going to start debating my perspective. I only offered my thoughts, the way I see things - agree, disagree, that's your choice.
 
Oh my God.

This is the worthy successor of that homecoming thread.

When Morphane declared that he was returning to his Faith, I was sad because I thought he would leave us. Oh, how easy it is to turn around when you have this Faith in your heart which is million times more powerful than the shams we usually fabricate to suspend ourselves above the dark waters.

I wanted to write you (Morphane) a PM, to ask you to consider staying, but I couldn't really understand my motives and therefore I stopped. Now I take the chance to ask you to persist. I still don't know exactly why, but I feel that we need you.

What you have has the same kind of pulling power than psychedelic drugs and experiences and worlds have to those who have really experienced the depth of the mind. But we don't know the true nature of your secret, we only have our tales and fantasies and prejudices and our history, from which we try to recreate the story as it may have happened. Without that direct perception, we are lost in a confused anger. And perhaps rightfully so!

I know that from your point of view we may be building altars for the devil or something. But if you really have Faith then I think you have to come back to us and do the battle, you know, when you have to face the Devil and finally UNDERSTAND him, however painful the cognitive dissonance may prove to be. That's what Christians do all the time: when the time comes, they are terrified by the depths and turn away from the truly immense task of going into the root conflict with an entirely open Heart. I know I do. But perhaps you are stronger than me. :)

I have a strong conviction that when a true Christian, "powered" by his Faith gets into the Devil's den, then the great alchemical transmutation of Duality->Unity becomes possible. It's just very very difficult to keep the balance. But therein lies something which could turn the world upside-down (or rather inside-out, thereby bringing that long-wanted peace between the two poles).

So please stay. I don't know whether we can solve it this time, but we should definitely try.
 
fractal enchantment said:
I actaully dont think we are all talking about the same thing here..I know I am not talking about the same thing as God-through-Jesus...I am not talking about a god which you can objectify like that..Jesus was not god..
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fractal enchantment said:
Yea well...ok, agree with you on that, when you put it that way. Then let’s just say that we are all inspired by the same thing (God). 'The way' 'the path' might be different. It is a personal, cultural and contextual issue, as in: 'where you were born' 'how you were raised' 'what you have experienced, read, heard, thought about…'.

Still I think he was not THAT far off when he talked about God as:
'devine ground of being, love personified, absolute consciousness’ etc. Those words do make some sense to me. I have experienced such when I visited the spiritual realms of this ‘dimension of non-duality’ the mushrooms have shown me. And it was closest to God (divinity, nirwana) as I will ever be. Btw I do agree with you when you say God is ‘everything and nothing’. It is the simplest and most logical explanation I think. Check out the ideas of Spinoza, he was onto something like this too. Baruch Spinoza - Wikipedia

Also I would like to say it is not ok to expect somebody (religious) to throw overboard all his ideas at once. He would damage himself, his identity. We are not all ready for an instant ego-death for example, it is not a path (way) everybody can or should go. It should not be forced. It won’t be forced. It should and will come and evolve from within. Hope we can all agree on that one?

I think Morphane is on a good path. He is questioning, researching, listening, testing, and forming (new) ideas. He is evolving. Which is more then I can say of allot of other practitioners (abusers) of religion.

Morphane:
‘I think the purpose of creation is to bring separate beings into a loving relationship with God and other beings.’

Whatever your Christian ideas my friend. We are all in the same boat. Call it the ‘Arc’ is you want to. Personally I prefer to take all ideas into consideration, and in this way I won’t limit myself to 1 religion or philosophy, or medicine. The tree of life has many branches, that keep on growing. Indeed: ‘The thing that might come the closest is mataphor..not A metaphore..but the art of metaphore itself..’

I think the absolute truth is not for us to comprehend in this state of transition, in this human physical state of being. Stating one has the ‘absolute truth’ or the ‘only way’ would be arrogant, non-tolerant, limiting and just plain stupid at very least.

Anyway, I am very much enjoying this discussion. Reminds me of some other discussion on another forum.
Perhaps check it out: Contact Support

And now I will get back to work : S
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Virola78 said:
Acolyte said:
I greatly look forward to this Opti and I article and will share my thoughts shortly...
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pls do : P
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I liked the Opti article. The writing and point of view is excellent; though I often became lost and confused, not because of the strange topic, but from the structure…
I am familiar with the topic, though that particular symbiote slant was new. It eludes to the tradition of the ultimate thesis: that the “soul,” or whatever “we” are, is very much a symbiote to the body. However, the author adds a third symbiote: Opti a visitor from hyperspace.

This idea of a third symbiote is relatively new to me, though one I had arrived to from my UFO studies. I had hypothesized that a truly advanced race visiting the Earth ought easily have the technology to fully read and control human minds (like a committee of sybiotes), but that ethically, they would do so only to the bare and absolute minimum.

I determined that they MUST be ethical, because ethics is more than a right/wrong thing; ethics is a set of procedure that simply works the best, for the longest amount of time. The fact They are here, means They’ve been around a long time because They operate in a wise and ethical manner.

I don’t know if The Nexus users fully realize how fundamentally new to western culture these conversations regarding Entities and spirituality, in the context of Spice, truly are.
Traditionally, what were once “metaphysical” and “spiritual” issues, are now with Spice, EMPERICAL topics fully in reach to the methods of “observation,” interaction and perhaps tools (eventually).
Essentially what we are intrinsically saying through out this forum is that The Matrix (the movie) is real and The Evil Agents exist, but are humans in the physical realm trying to keep us trapped; the freedom fighters are the spirits of the Spice World, trying desperately to free our minds and educate us at our own pace...

and theoretically, we just need the courage to go and ask them.

A
 
There is no clear answer to what entities are. I don't think they're actually life forms from another planet. I think they're more something like figments of our own imagination or angel-like beings that are supposed to guide us through hyperspace.
But maybe there are more scenario's going on at the same time.

My main objection against the extra-terrestial idea is that this could only be true, if theoretically we would be able to do the same as them.
I mean...there can be other civilisations that are technologically superiour to us, but they cannot be by definition superiour.
So they can only have technologies that we could also posses if our technology would evolve for another 100 or 1000 years.
Or else they could not be here.
 
"I know that from your point of view we may be building altars for the devil or something. But if you really have Faith then I think you have to come back to us and do the battle, you know, when you have to face the Devil and finally UNDERSTAND him, however painful the cognitive dissonance may prove to be. That's what Christians do all the time: when the time comes, they are terrified by the depths and turn away from the truly immense task of going into the root conflict with an entirely open Heart. I know I do. But perhaps you are stronger than me.

I have a strong conviction that when a true Christian, "powered" by his Faith gets into the Devil's den, then the great alchemical transmutation of Duality->Unity becomes possible. It's just very very difficult to keep the balance. But therein lies something which could turn the world upside-down (or rather inside-out, thereby bringing that long-wanted peace between the two poles)."

Yes debate can be a healthy thing..

that being said..

About this "devil" talk..Hell, satan, the devil..none of these things are actually chrisitan..they were introduced later on as scare tactics..

When christians start talking about hell and the devil I get the impression they dont know what they are even talking about.

Also alot of anthropologist think that the whole concept of the "christian god" was a later thing as well and based on the pagan "green man" or all father..very possible the later Norse god Oden was based on the green man as well..

Pan was another pagan god who looks VERY similar to the chrisitan "satan"..probabily another thing they stole and made out to be evil in an attempt to convert pagans..I actaully think satan was sort of a combination of Pan and the Norse trickster god Loki.

when you study this stuff what you may find might amaze you.
 
Yea well...ok, agree with you on that, when you put it that way. Then let’s just say that we are all inspired by the same thing (God). 'The way' 'the path' might be different. It is a personal, cultural and contextual issue, as in: 'where you were born' 'how you were raised' 'what you have experienced, read, heard, thought about…'.


No dude..I still dont agree with that. It is not a cultural or contextual issue what I am talking about. There is no predjudice or racism etc in what I am talking about. We are all one..and the trancendantal experience is the same among all cultures in my opinion.

My best friend is native american, another good freind is catholic from the phillipeans, I have freinds from mexico that were raised catholic as well..indian friends and freinds who had no religion. Yet when I take mushrooms with these people we realise we are all one..there is no seperation...there is just love and freindship, the things that make life good. All that religious crap falls into the background and bcommes irrelevant.

I am not talking about regional religion. Lots of people have gone to church as kids..then had unitive experiences at some point in life and realized that we are all one..everything is one.

It doesnt matter where you come from or what religion you come from..those are all just details. Focussing on details like that is not what I am talking about.

Regional religous beliefs dont in any way have to equate to mystical gnosis..maybe they can..that is not for me to say. But when people build and follow beliefs passed down from the culture they live in and only follow those religions, thinkign that is the way..that is how lots of wars start.

It is dangerous to think that all religions are talking about the same thing..sure at the root of all religions wayyy back in time whenit purely a spiritual practice minus the dogma I believe they were all talking about the unitive experience..but these things become cultured, exposed to taboos of society and greedy monarchs..and become non-unitve, systems of controll.

If I need to find god through only 1 thing dictated to me than no thanks.
 
I haveone more thing to say here..

I find it annoying and arrogant when people tell me that the way through Jesus is the BEST way..it's fine if it is your way but I why should I think it is the best way?

For one thing it is not the way of my ancestors..my ancestors were pagans and worshipped nature, were animistic and practiced shamanism.

Most of christian celebrations practiced today were actaully stolen from the pagan..Take christmas(jesus was not said to be born in December for one thing)..Christmas was really Yule. Yule was the winter celebration of the Germanic peoples of Europe and was celebrated between late December and early January..and conincided with the winter solstice.

The chrsitams tree itself is actaully a pagan tradition as well, along with mistletoe..which was origionally outlawed by the church. Only later did the church addopt the use of mistle toe in an attempt to draw in the pagan crowd to chrisianity.

Same goes for Easter..easter was a pagan fertility holiday..associated with the goddess. These people worshipped nature remember..so why would they worship the goddess of fertility in the spring? This is when everything starts growing again..everything is blooming and growing, birds are singing and making nests etc..these people were literally worshippngm giving thanks and aknowledging the seasons..the flow of everything..the universe. Everything to them was sacred. They had no need for Jesus and they were already saved.

When the church saw something that was outside of what they were doing..they banned it..like they did with mistletoe..until they found a use for it..in this case to trick people into joining the church..alot of the time they just murdered people.

They needed to make the pagan communitites and the people who were already chrisitan have something to fear..becasue when people are afraid they are more vulnerable..so they make up all this crap about hell and the Devil..making gods like Oden, Pan and Loki out to be evil..finally settling on the Pan image of the Devil as a goat man with horns...that whole immagry just reaks of paganism.

So once they had basically deluded what paganism origionally was..they sought out to destroy all documentation of the old ways..alot of pagan tradtion was passed down through word of mouth..similar to the bards of Ireland..they were the storytellers of the tribe..the historians..

The church killed off as many of these people as possible so that people had no link to the truth of they're own past...big coincidence the church used those same methods when dealing the native american peoples of Canada..everything was oral..all tradions were passed down orally..so they simply got rid of the storytellers.

Becasue of the church so many of the ancient records and practices, beliefs of the pagans..especially the Vikings are gone..I tried and tried to study alot of this stuff when I was studying anthropology alot at school and always hit barriers becasue of what the church did.

So as a pagan..interested in paganism and the old ways of my ancestors..why should I ever trust the church? I remeber in social studies class in high school being told that the reason we study history is so that we can learn from the past..when I look back into the past what I have seen time and time again is Dont trust the church..they are a lying, murderous organisation that will do anything to gain controll over the populations of the planet, using "god" as they're excuse..I fully believe that most inhuman things done on this planet were exectued by the church in the name of "god".

People deserve to know these things. Where they really come from..why they practice the things they do..Just why certain huge parts of historical traditions have been completely wiped out..and most importantly..who did it.

I am not against Christianity persay..becaue I believe christ was a man just like you or I..not my path though..No better or worse. But I am 100% againt the church and everything they stand for..and I fully believe that Jesus would shake his head at most chrisians if he were here today.

So you see how most of what christianity is today is based of OTHER traditions..stolen tradtions..cultural genocide.
..the myths of other peoples..
Not that I believe in those myths either persay..
These things are things of words..language..ways of seeing the world.. ..and then taken out of context..
Words arent always adequate though..alot of it is just plain fantacy and wishful thinking.
 
Oh yes Fractal, right on! We are all one, bless it be =)

Morphane, I think it would be nice and interesting if you came back writing a reply to all of this. I would love to hear more about your perspective, as long as you wish that is.

"Hold up your hands before your eyes. You are looking at the hands of God."
 
Yes morphane I would like to hear some response as well..

Dont take this as an attack on you..becasue it's not intended that way. Everything I said about the church is true though..leaving christ himslef aside.

You stated clearly that you though that Jesus was the best way to god..

When I hear that I can't help but think of all the armies of people throughout history who said that same thing over and over again and look at all the horror they created on this here planet earth..doesnt seem like they found god at all from where I am standing..

So you must undertand how when I hear things like that I am weary, naturally..
 
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