Your thoughts on pantheism

[Demideon]

I wrote this up for you guy's- give praise

People search for truth and meaning.
They talk to me about their pessimism, about predicaments that seem so grave in our modern time, and in their personal times- oh even greater.

People ask me if there is a god. Ask me if there is a reason to live, life after death, why are they here. Why do we exist.
What is divine?

So many people, they all suffer, decadence is to them the truth- and to reject their old religions is the beginning of a new kind of suffering. They ask the question: will I take the truth or will I take comfort. I want to help, I want to shed light.

The truth is comforting.

We are not what we appear to be, or rather we are so much MORE than we appear to be.
I hear preachers of human perception- what is not seen, what is not heard, simply what is not perceived- is not real. They say.

The pathway of organic evolution- we consider ourselves the wisest of the carbonic creatures on this planet. We consider ourselves either the wisest of the animals or even wholly different from the animals- some say we have spirit- say that human beings are the divine things on this planet- gods favourite playthings.

No, we don't doubt our perceptions. We go so far as to say what is not perceived is not real?! When our perceptions are precisely what we should doubt most! Mans perception is indeed a plaything- it is the farthest thing from truth on our world. The most dangerous thing, the most suffering thing- and yet we pursue progress thinking we achieve leisure. Thinking the sense of pleasure is increased. Thinking but generation after generation we know we are wrong. Depression is the scourge of civilized society, the threads of humanity are yellow ran through honey and oil so long. The honey dries, the oil condenses and decays into thin air. The thread cracks and little twines splinter off.. If strung the last note would be the rust of an ancient henge.

O Humanity flickers- and our logic is dying, our logic has met it's last days- all we can do now is love. And love as our good society decays.

But let it be our nirvana- let death be us giving the earth back to the old ways. Let us go back to the ground and let our hydrocarbons spring back into the flush of her sweet cheeks. Let us be nature. Let us men and women approach nature.

And everyday i've watched myself die now. It's no real secret. I watch in the car as my skin withers into the air and through my lungs. As my brain grows older and old possibilities of imagination are nevermore. I have watched myself- it has been years. I have died so many many times. Bit by bit and the death of otherthings has served me to die not as fast. But my debt is great- my feces filtered through some toilet- that could never be a repayment for the sorrow my consumerism has reaped on the earth. I long for the day a vulture could peck at my scalp and for microbes to do me their blessing. For my bones to crumble to calcium for the great oaks of future millenia.

All is rancid! All is decadence! I once understood this pessimism- perhaps you could tell. But now no longer. I am liberated by the truth.

There is a god. And this god is inexhaustible- the is and was and always will be. The one certainty of a wavy universe (neglect our square anthropo structures)- that always there will be the wave. Always there will be the spin. And O creations will happen. Creation will burn through all possibilities in the godly processing will of a universe. Energy is the divine driving force- it will not stop til all has been done with it. Til all of fullness and emptiness both are created. Til all energy has been dispersed. It will never stop.

The divine will is to create. And the divine will will not be conquered by organic resistance- we are clay as much as the earth we mold. We will return to the dust and be thrown out across the universe. One's backbone may well become the backbone of a star. Eternal lightning is the will of god.

And it contains you. It contains all energy in and without the system. It has no limits. And you are it.

It's lens is not distorted- it is true- true as the unfathomable universe- and we thought we humans graced truth when we imagined our world fathomable and then even fathomed!

The lens of of an insignificant species on an insignificant rock during an insignificant time period. What will it matter. I would rather retreat right away to the lens of a perfect conscience. The lens of a whole unfathomable. The lens of god. And Oh, I praise and admire those dead skin cell flakes. They are on their journey to the truth and enlightenment of it all. They are on their way back to realizing what they TRULY are. They will become wise like the stones and the air. They will become the lens of god. YOU are GOD waiting to happen- I guess maybe jesus did have it figured out- so much for his followers (once they called him brother- now they call him king?), I guess we're all waiting buddhas.

 

[Demideon]

I would really like to get a topic going so all the pantheistic nexians can talk about the summary of their spiritual experiences and state what they believe about the nature of reality and such.. Let's make this interesting!

 

[universecannon]

didn't you just make a thread on pantheism here though? Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

You mine as well just combine them..although i haven't read the other thread yet

i like things such as pantheism, pandeism, toaism, animism ect...but personally i tend to stay away from identifying with any sort of 'ism' too heavily. The only thing i really know for sure is that i don't know squat...Its definitely interesting though, and more appealing/logical to me than most mental constructs people identify with these days. A lot of my experiences and thoughts lead me to suspect that the the multiverse may be permeated by consciousness itself, and is some kind of 'organism'; us individuals being only a sub-system of that organism, as a kind of a single cell or atom

 

[chemicaly changed]

What The Firetruck.

 

[Infundibulum]

I think I prefer this thread as I cannot reply to your previous thread without being rude.

So what's the crack with pantheism? How does it differ from monotheism? If "god" is omnipresent, what is the advantage of dividing it in multiple gods? Or what is the disadvantage of lumping many gods under one umbrella?

I think that if you have many gods you can then make many little stories about them, in sort a celestial soap-opera. With only one actor you need more imagination to develop good soap. Even the biblical god has 3 faces/sides, to kick the soap up a notch (father-son issues, etc etc)

 

[spinCycle]

"You must become free from any ism -- for that is the deadliest drug. It is like a sponge -- it absorbs illusions like water and engulfs the Self."
-- Krishnamurti

 

[universecannon]

"to insist on one spiritual path after it has aided you is to carry a canoe on your back after crossing a river" - i forget

 

[dreamer042]

Combined the two threads

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

The pathway of organic evolution- we consider ourselves the wisest of the carbonic creatures on this planet. We consider ourselves either the wisest of the animals or even wholly different from the animals- some say we have spirit- say that human beings are the divine things on this planet- gods favourite playthings.

I do not consider us wise animals at all.
To me we seem a lot like if you took ants and crossed them with dogs...

Keep in mind I am one of these ant-dog things...

We go so far as to say what is not perceived is not real?!

I would never say what is not perceived in not real, I would say what cannot be perceived is obsolete and has no relevance by definition of not being perceived. It is utterly and entirely meaningless.

If for example there is a giant plaid tomato monster that lives invisibly and cannot be perceived, ergo cannot be detected, then what is the use of even knowing it? It is meaningless.

I actually agree with you about not being able to trust perceptions, but I only believe this about thought perceptions that add content or meaning beyond what is obvious. If we were at a park and a pigeon landed by us, and you said "hey look, there is a pigeon" that is a perception I trust entirely. If you turned to me and said, "that pigeon likes you", that is a perception I would think is worthless and has no value, ergo is not to be trusted.

I believe in a higher power and feel that such a concept is not obsolete in some ways and is in others.

In terms of psychedelic use I do not trust my perceptions, I have had a lot of notions pop into my head while I was tripping that were entirely false and I believed them 100% when I was tripping, only to learn that I cannot trust assumptive and presumptive perceptions, it is like the pigeon example, if I saw a pigeon while I was tripping then that is fine to trust, but if I thought there was a meaning, agenda or purpose behind this pigeon, then I believe I (in that case) am being delusional and absurd, which I will admit is one of the things I like about psychedelics because it is fun to be silly.

Now I cannot separate the divine from Nature, and do not think that existence has anything specific to do with human beings. To me we are cute side effects from the existence of the universe, not the central focus at all. We tends to think that things are here for us, or for a particular end (teleology) I find this arrogant and insulting. For all we know, our purpose here is to be food for bacteria, tigers and malaria.

I don't believe in an afterlife or a pre-existence, but am open minded to the idea.
I believe in spirits, (not of the dead per-say) I employ prayer and use energy work to do things, I have had psychic experiences (best word for it, not an ideal word still) I have experienced precognition and telepathic events and other interesting phenomena.

I believe that as an Ant-Dog (ergo human) I am incapable of being more than absolutely deluded when it comes to the nature of the universe and the concept of purpose (I think purpose is a thing humans invented in their heads and that it is a misconception)

This is why instead of trying to be one with the universe or develop magical powers I try to focus on things like, food, shelter, behavior etc.

But I am a fool whose perceptions are not to be trusted.

All I know is that I don't have the answers and never will, so I will worry about eating when I am hungry, and coming in out of the rain when I have to, and leave all the wondering about the divine to others.

Still, I have read most old religious texts of the major world religions that have been translated into English and do love to study religion and spirituality etc, I even have my own beliefs and testimony, but for me life is more about food, shelter and getting laid than it is the mysteries of the universe.

meh...:?:

 

[cubeananda]

Personally I hold the rough idea that, the universe (Brahman)

Began to be aware of itself by the initial Whim, "God" The pointification of the energy which could manifest all possibilities. The whim to know itself.

It is beginning-less and Endless, while the Consciousness itself has a definite beginning, but still remains endless.


All of the possibilities already existed, mind you, but they happened in a single moment and there was no "Jivan" or "Soul" to "Witness" at a rate appropriate to the medium of matter which the "Soul" was currently evolved to.


Eventually, Jivan grew and evolved to such an immaculate state, that it had the ability to form "Archetypal" facets of the whole thing that is god.

Such a state of "Gods on mount olympus" occuring is not the original state of things, but happens only after "Soul" evolves through the various stages of: Stone, Plant, Worm, Fish, Reptile, Intelligent Reptile with capacity to develop astral body, The astral body working with the planet of intelligent reptilian humanoids then has the ability to manipulate the natural process of organic evolution, and when a lucky planet such as Earth occurs, then Mammals, and Human Beings, and Cats can occur.

Eventually places like Egypt Happen, but it takes the conscious work of severely limiting the tendency of organic evolution to create huge monstrosities like T Rex, and making the size of predators much smaller.

I would accept the Idea That other planets even had Mammalian Humanoids the Size of Zues in the Pantheon.

On such a planet you would see the actually manifestion of each of these archetypes within one Being at a given time, but they would likely deal with large predators, for the sake of making unification Last as long as possible (the gods are like Women who just want to have sex all night long.) Such a planet divided the manifestion of Archetypes even further, and eventually formed more and more refined states such as Now.

Now is the most refined, complicated, and subtle state that has ever existed thus far.

Now we we (the part of us that is Archetypes) have reached a state where unification will never actually happen, and the process will keep continuing FOR EVER.

In paradise, there are infinite things to experience and infinite interest in these things, and so theres really no such thing as a Problem.

There may have been in the past, Such as the state of paradise during the Time of Krishna and the Anicent Indians, but the greatest conception so far has been realized.

Before, the Gods had a "Soma" which was outside themselves. It had to be created on earth, Now the Gods have reached a state that continually continually reverberates reverberates.

(This is because throughout all of the dimensions, there is an "Internet" and this is allowing the information about Ayahuasca to be spread on a profoundly wide level. Causing all sorts of novelties to exist within the state of Brahma.)

It only gets better from here.

The next step is Humanoid Cats. I say this because it is the tendency of Jivan which has not attined to Brahman (the original state) to evolve to finer and finer degrees of consciousness and impressions.

Monotheism is one scale. In this sense, the ultimate God, the ultimate power is Emptiness.

Pantheism is the state at which Jivan has been crystallized into the various archetypal forms which characterize the Division of God or Brahman.

Brahman by itself is pure white light, but when Jivan processes through it, the white light starts to become a rainbow, and gradually becomes a 256 colors gradient.

Eventually Jivan attained oneness with Brahman, though each individual manifestation of Jivan (each drop of water from the ocean of Brahma) has to go through its own process of experiencing opposite impressions until it finally levels out.


Jivan becoming one with Brahman is esentially your soul being expanded out into the cosmos, and follow perpetual Now.

In different parts of the cosmos, the witnessing the matter exists in different states, And so upon death, a Buddha expands into the cosmos, experiencing all the various Colors of consciousness,

(the feeling of being an explosion, of being water, of being people's internal organs, the feeling of being a cloud, of being lightning, of being a Sun, Everything, but it is experienced from a state of Distance, such a consciousness is not identified with all such sensations, they are merely the process.

until he reaches the "Eternal City." The eternal city, even that such a soul is not identified with. It is just part of the process of unification.

From which he can continue to send light energy to the various Moons of planets in different dimensions for the sake of continuing the Work of helping other pieces of Jivan attain to Jivanmukta (Oneness of the Soul with Brahman) For the Ultimate Goal of Actively facilitating the Complete oneness of the Conscious Ocean.



Further, the Various facets (Archetypes, or gods of mount olympus or of pantheism) split themselves up and make up the various aspects of human consciousness on this planet.

These Archetypes are actually the Cause for the structure of our solar system.

They both relate to eachother, but essentially our solar system Influences our consciousness, and our the structure of ur solar system is influenced by the characteristcs of the division of god.

Each planet moves in an elliptical orbit, and each having a different distance from the sun creates a different Pitch or Color.

These different Colors in God's light show manifest as different human characteristics within our highly specialized stasis of pressures and chemical concentrations.





Edit: I don't want to seem like I actually know what I'm talking about or anything, It is just so awkward to write "In my opnion" before everything all the time.

Maybe this stuff will make sense to you, its very near to my heart, because I spend nearly every day, Like a mother Hen, Keeping this Egg Incubated.

 

[primordium]

Pantheism seems to be a widespread baseline for mysticism; most traditions that include it also seem to transcend it (e.g. Platonism).

 

[Demideon]

I think I prefer this thread as I cannot reply to your previous thread without being rude.

So what's the crack with pantheism? How does it differ from monotheism? If "god" is omnipresent, what is the advantage of dividing it in multiple gods? Or what is the disadvantage of lumping many gods under one umbrella?

I think that if you have many gods you can then make many little stories about them, in sort a celestial soap-opera. With only one actor you need more imagination to develop good soap. Even the biblical god has 3 faces/sides, to kick the soap up a notch (father-son issues, etc etc)

Haha nice crack at it infundibilum, but I don't think you really understand what pantheism is. You are thinking of polythiesm. Though the prefix πᾶν (pan) is closely related to πολύς (polus) they have different meanings and different implications in philosophy of religion. πολύς basically means "many, much"- in my opinion this word is also related to latin "populus" (the many common people). Pantheism is entirely different, it means something entirely different. Something I feel most Nexians could relate too strongly. Greek πᾶν means "all, everything", it it's self derives from a prehistoric indoeuropean word that meant "universe" similar though more encompassing than the latin "mundus" (world).

The implications of such a word- "pantheism". Is to say the theos is actually the entire universe- no exceptions. All one and yet infinite manifestations of the same god. Some people go far to even call such a stance: not even a religion. Like Richard Dawkins attacked it in one of his books calling it "sexed up atheism"- it is probably the easiest -ism for any scientifically, educated minded man to associate with himself. Albert Einstein was very deep into pantheistic philosophy.

What I am implying is that god does not manifest it's self either in a polis of deities- nor in a three faced jealous monster. That god is it all.

Some would then even question the significance of even attaching such a term "deon" or "god" to this faculty. I would reply that such a belief is indeed significant- it is an optimistic view of the universe, and also what represents in meaning is that there is a pervading consciousness to the entire mundus. That all of pan is one. That we beings- assemblies of atoms- are but small tissues in a vastly unfathomable organism. I don't think the single cell with all the technology of the nuclei could understand the immensity of the organism to which it belongs. I do not fathom I myself could understand or fathom the immensity of my universe. Only I think I am aware that I am part of an organism. Not just a free floating antonymous creature. I am aware that I am MUCH more than just myself. I am god- because I am the universe. I feel it is the blessing of egoless material to best understand this truth. We humans are perhaps the most damned species on this planet from this view. That we have no way of knowing our immense and optimistic nature. That we are a deeply sorry and suffering lot of molecules and perceptions. Because we have the falsest perceptions in nature- because we are so sure our perceptions from birth and from society. We believe that we know something. And to quote A great and realized philosopher "I only know I know nothing"- this I believe is the statement or atleast the wish of a fully realized and enlightened being. If the dead could talk- this is what they would say, this is what the caapis would whisper and the essence of the intelligence of the inanimate- the seemingly "unconscious"- I truly believe it is those things we call unconscious that are most conscious of reality in this universe- such objects are aware that they can know nothing. I digress- but yes "panthiesm" means- all is god.

And wow cubeanda- I REALLY enjoyed that man! Sorry but I don't have time to reply to you just yet. But thankyou.

 

[Infundibulum]

Thank you for the clarification -

So if everything is god, it's another way of saying that everything is energy or everything is everything....what good does it do though? If you say that everything, with no exception is god, what extra do you add? How different is this from just not stating it? In other words to me it sounds that you say that the universe is the universe.

In pantheism, can I do without being god, or contain god? or I am doomed to be god? I already have issue with people stating that we are all one (as if I want to be one with everyone else... :? ) now I have to be a god as well? Damn me

 

[Psychelectric]

"Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow moving vibration, that we are all one consciousess experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream and we are the imagination of ourselves. Here's Tom with the weather." :lol:

My idea as it realates to pantheism is multifaceted. In theological discussion I have always resorted to the old conclusion that if God created the universe and you can not create something out of nothing then God could only create the universe out of what was already there, itself. Therefore God is the universe. That's how most people come to the basic veiw of pantheism, but if you take a step back things are more complicated. At least when trying to relate to other people's veiws.

When you look at other religions you see a tapestry of cultural interpretations of what the "truth" is. Christians use Jesus to represent a perfect man, what all humans are striving to be, truly God incarnate. Buddists see our life as a path going towards enlightenment, or the ultimate understanding, which simply is being at one with the "Godhead" to use a term. Some people can see many gods or anscestor spirits in the mix. And when it comes to our psyche they are all valid ways to look at the world. When it comes to family spirits, say your grandfather died and left you his watch, for the rest of your life that watch will always have a special significance, and to a degree the watch is possessed by the spirit of your grandfather. Religion does have a knack for molding such veiws into concrete realities for people's perception, but the foundation is always there in the human psyche. Likewise is the foundation for belief in gods. The sun god, the god of wine, hell you could conceptualize the god of the internet, the toaster god. Esentially you could create a myth about anything and anthropomorphize it. Brand loyalty is basicly a commercialiszed cult, we just say that someone's a fan, rather than a cultist, but the same mentality is there, we just use different terms. Everything has the potential to be made into a "god", it's human nature to do that. All religions are just culturally relevant exageratted attempts at this concept.

In essence all religious disscussions are merely culturally biased semantics arguments, because whether you say God, Jah, Jahovah, VIshnu, Allah, or whatever, you are all talking, pretty much, about the same thing. Likewise with the concept of the "Devil" whether you say the Coyote spirit or Loki's mischeif, or Carl Jung's Shadow, you all are essentially talking about the same thing.

The problem is when you try to give a personality to God, and opinions and veiwpoints, because then you are just using the idea of God to sell a particular agenda. Thus the cultural wars we have been fighting for so long.

I think the ultimate law, is simply the Golden Rule, and to paraphrase a great comedian "We just need one commandment, Thou Shalt Not Fuck with Other People's Shit", or in my perspective, Provided you're not infringing on anyone else, to each his(/her) own.

The reason I identify with pantheism is because it's not a religion, you don't have to subject yourself to the OCD rituals to please a God that probably isn't so petty as to require you to dunk your head in water, or say specific chants or mantras or do a silly dance because some preist thought that's what God might like. It's freeing.

I think the best way to approach it is to just be a good person and try to make the world a better place. Simple

I do think that Pantheism by itself is a bit too simple of a philosophy however, but maybe it is the big picture. However there are many many little pictures, and subtle details in the mix of this great mess we call infinity. What about multiple dimensions, rebirth, the concept of the soul, why are we on this "particular" journey, what are we doing here? Who knows.

 

[Demideon]

I suggest anyone such as infundibilum who does not quite understand the usefulness of pantheism should look into some lectures by allan watts. This guy leaves me a little mind blown every time I listen to his audios.

 

[jamie]

"So if everything is god, it's another way of saying that everything is energy or everything is everything....what good does it do though? If you say that everything, with no exception is god, what extra do you add? How different is this from just not stating it? In other words to me it sounds that you say that the universe is the universe."

Basically that sums it up. Nothing else needs to be said. The universe really is just the universe..that is going to mean whatever it means to you. To some people the universe is sacred and to others nothing is.
Oh well.
Thats life.